A Federal Europe?

[u/Esteban83550]

Do you like the idea of a federal Europe? having some areas of sovereignty like the Army, a substantial budget, an elected president and government and many more

765 votes, 16d ago

373 Yes Absolutely

139 Yes partially

68 Not sure

44 No partially

141 Absolutely against

[u/FabianButHere]

UdSSR was a federation too. They did their best to homogenise.

The EU will do the same. And even if not, you can't create supreme laws for all those countries at once and have them make sense for the people of all countries at once.

I don't even think most member states in the EU can do that within their own country, that's why I definitely think states should be way, way smaller (or not exist at all, but sadly anarchy is but an utopia).

[u/TheSpeakingRock → u/FabianButHere]

USSR was a dictatorship, they didn't do their best to "homogenise" they did their best ethnically cleanse all minorities.
The EU would be a democracy and member states would willingly join the federation not like the USSR which was russian imperialism.

States should be way smaller?? Why?? If people are willing to live together in the same nation / state , if they all share the same values, cultures or there is just something that unites them I don't see why they should have a state of certain dimensions if they are willing to live together in a "big" state

[u/FabianButHere → u/TheSpeakingRock]

The larger a state, the less tailored are its laws to its citizens, and the more impossible it becomes to create laws that reasonably work for all citizens.

The EU would be a democracy, sure, but, since laws cannot be made on such a large scale to fit to its citizens, and because a large, powerful EU is wanted by those in power, the only thing left to change is the people. Homogenisation is the only solution, if you want to keep your power, large state and laws.

[u/TheSpeakingRock → u/FabianButHere]

That's your opinion?
The entire point of a federation is to give more power to the people living in those lands rather than the central government, and even so, every state has other regions and every region has provinces, it's basic knowledge.
It's like saying that the us is too big to work well so it needs to split up.
Homogenisation is not needed if the people aren't forced to unite but rather it's the people who WANT to unite.
Obviously if you are an imperialistic shithole you will ethnically cleanse the populations in your federation since they don't want to be in said federation.
The EU federation would be different because it's the people who want to unite.

[u/FabianButHere → u/TheSpeakingRock]

Huh? Obviously in individual nations the people have more control than in a federation with those nations subordinate to a higher federation government. A federation is only an improvement if a nation is broken up into federative circuits, not if it's done the other way around.

A country needs something holding it together. For the EU, the only thing is politics. People want a political join. But you can't force cultures and societies together like that. They'll always remain heavily split, and break apart at the end (Yugoslavia, for example).

[u/Reality-Straight → u/FabianButHere]

another dictatorship, do you have examples that aren't dictatorships?

Cause from ym perspective it worked wonderful for many nations, brazil, the us, india, the uk, early germany

[u/FabianButHere → u/Reality-Straight]

Why am I defending myself, by the way, if there is not a single point for an European federation? Read my updated comment, please. Not gonna repeat myself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teenager_Polls/s/OFDxqY5yJO

[u/Reality-Straight → u/FabianButHere]

i answered this question in another comment

[u/TheSpeakingRock → u/FabianButHere]

Can you name a federation that made different nations/populations join WILLINGLY, not under any dictatorship and that as you said collapsed because "it forced different cultures together"?

[u/FabianButHere → u/TheSpeakingRock]

No.

A country needs something holding it together. For the EU, the only thing is politics. People want a political join. But you can't force cultures and societies together like that. They'll always remain heavily split, and break apart.

Still stands.

[u/TheSpeakingRock → u/FabianButHere]

That's not a fact, it's your opinion.
European nations share a somewhat macro culture (which is literally the reason why Europe is considered a continent), they share history and obviously also political interests, you point is it wouldn't last but it doesn't make much sense since it's the will of the people to unite

[u/FabianButHere → u/TheSpeakingRock]

I'm not saying the country will break apart, it will be forced to stay together. The people will remain split, and that will make any legislation bad for at least 30%.

Any group of people that big cannot be all content with the same set of legislature. Not even states of 80 or 60 million people can do that. Unless the European federation's goal is to homogenise their peoples. That's why it doesn't make sense.

Will there be a huge civil war and everything break? No. But there's no reason for doing it in the first place. It will just, in the long run, make people either unhappy or oppressed and thus unhappy.

You can disagree and think that somehow the enormous differences will still allow for any kind of effective ruling, but I don't believe that. States (that being, the entity with the monopoly on violence) need to be small to be actually close and fit to their peoples.