That's the entire point. This is only getting so much traction because it's all about vengeance. Not about preventing future instances of either crime.
Family annihilators get swept under the rug because they're already dead, so there's no way they can be punished, and most often the perpetrators are men. Real justice would be changing laws and policies to prevent either crime, by actually providing adequate services to people who need help before they do something so unspeakable. Because the system has failed everyone involved in these crimes. Yes, both the perpetrators and victims.
You're not seeing this post because of the people who care about mental health care and defend people's right to access it. You're seeing it because someone wants you to get angry about a woman and think that men are oppressed.
You are literally being polarized and you go fuckin westworld with the "doesn't seem like anything to me" on the very topics they are manipulating you with. They could not ask for better rubes
it's not actually a polarizing case - literally no one except people who fell for the bait from bots and trolls and think she didn't do it at all actually supports what she did.
this post is a meme comparing a family annihilator to a woman who was having severe mental issues. It's framing a family annihilator as someone who was in psychosis when that's not even remotely what happened with the guy.
It doesn't matter why or how when children were killed by their own parents.
Our little chain here perfectly exposes why this gets such discussion though
Many folks (myself included) don't care if temporary, lingering, or permanent insanity is a factor, a parent strangled their children, lock them up and throw away the key.
I really hate to break this to you, but as of 2023 statistics show that five children die every day in the US due to abuse and neglect by their parents. And people who study the issue agree that this is underreported by a factor of two or three, with many deaths of children due to "accident" not being accidental at all. The USA has one of the worst rates of child abuse among first world countries. We only hear about the most sensational cases.
The lack of sufficient social services for families in the US is obviously going to have the greatest negative effect on the most vulnerable family members -- the children. And yet people who claim to be "pro-life" keep voting Republican. American conservative hypocrisy is mind-blowing.
So if someone drugs you against your will causing psychosis and you kill a couple people you hope that the person, you hope you will be locked away for life despite you being in psychosis and not by choice?
And that's where your argument falls down, because I'm pretty sure you'll say that you think you deserve leniency and to be treated fairly... but she shouldn't right, because it's just that simple.
It's why people who accidentally kill people without any intention to do so get sometimes release for free, sometimes a negligence charge, depending on the situation.
What about a mother who passes out drunk at home and their toddler gets outside and runs into a run and gets run over, what if the mother passes out due to a medical condition and the same thing happens, should the consequences be identical, should we ignore the reason and context of something happening? Should we ignore context for you but not for other people, or should we have a system that tries to be fair and not one that decides we must smite everyone for everything with no context or deviation because somehow that's justice?
I've been on drugs, you don't randomly kill folks because of a bad trip, but let's entertain your theoretical thing that only happens in people's heads
Absolutely yes, I would rather be executed, but yes
so, you're intentionally dumb and going to take a stand for no reason against common logic.
But you've also decided all drugs automatically mean you become psychotic and have a psychotic break, which I never said, never claimed and absolutely no one on earth believes that.
Funny how you had to make up a nonsense situation to justify it.
The commonly used hard drugs are mostly used because... they are fun, and have a low chance of serious side effects, if they common caused you to act like a psycho, or black out and act like a different person here's a hint, people wouldn't take them recreationally.
When people date rape someone, they don't give them an lsd, or a vicodin, they give them a drug that stops them being able to form memories. There are drugs that can absolutely potentially cause you to fall into psychosis.
Also people have had their drinks spiked with things such that they didn't realise they were drunk or high and then drove drunk/high and caused an accident.
99% of the world concedes that if someone deliberately and against your will causes you to enter an altered state of mind then they are primarily responsible for your actions, not the person they drugged. But sure, make a stand so you don't lose an argument, you sound absolutely rational in doing so.
Scientists, psychologists, doctors, lawyers and educated people don't agree with your feelings and make laws based on primarily facts for a reason.
The man in the meme murdered his kids as revenge on his ex wife and called her so she could hear it happen. His lawyer never claimed criminally insane. He had a long history of domestic violence and abuse, drug problems, etc.
A man in texas got sent to mental ward after killing his child due to mental incompetency in Texas... due to that extremely biased justice system that would never give any men any justice.
99% of the women defending her aren't asking for her to be released or saying she didn't do it, they are just understanding of what PPD and PPP can do, as men should support men who actually had massive mental health issues when they commit crimes.
The narratives being pushed out there on this case are being pushed by the same people who intend to drive a wedge between sexes, races, nations and people in general so they don't turn around and look at who is to blame. The biggest pushers of this story are right wing manosphere connected morons who are unashamedly women hating idiots.
Don't forget foreign actors pushing botted culture war shit to destabilize (mostly) western countries to their benefit. Russia, China, and a couple other foreign adversaries spend hundreds of millions a year pushing this shit from both sides with the goal of harming us all, weakening the fabric of society, and allowing their authoritarianism to take a bigger place globally. Russia did play a role in getting Trump elected the first time of course, we know Russia and China attempted to meddle in the 2020 election as well and the current Trump administration is refusing to release a report on foreign election interference in the 2024 election that they are mandated to release by law. I wonder why...
Honestly I think it's more insidious than that, or at least more depressing. I suspect it's primarily ad revenue optimization, potentially not even driven by humans at least primarily. There may be an element of some grand conspiracy, but it feels more likely that a bunch of self important c-suite executives dictated the use of machine learning to increase profits and ragebait sells which I'm sure machine learning models have picked up on. It's likely not a simple system driving this crap (which I am now fueling myself, my cue to go look at cute animals I guess).
And if it was classifying things accidentally into generating $$ through interaction with topics that didn't serve the political interests of the execs then it would be trained out of it real quick.
Not necessarily. Like I said, this is a complex system of systems and I suspect machine learning is driving a great deal of it (and by extension the people themselves). At the end of the day we don't know what systems are in play (and they likely are different for each company/interest group so there is every possibility that both statements are true), but I don't think we should just throw out Occam's razor and assume a gigantic conspiracy when other plausible alternatives exist. We have a new technology that was unveiled and really took off around 2017 with transformers and had research undergoing before then with Alexnet really kicking off the current machine learning craze.
Obviously there will be people who want to push their own messages, but I suspect that is a bit overblown to be honest. You can train models to do very abstract tasks and LLMs don't really betray just how abstract these models can get.
It's not really a gigantic conspiracy when they tell you openly that they are pushing culture war as a lead to yank people around with and influence their political intent through rage and clickbait: like Bannon is on record talking about how he used Gamergate to stoke young men into right wing culture war and captivate them into the right, and Elon can't stop getting into culture wars or messing with mechahitler, and before all of that zuck was neck deep in it with cambridge analytica
Except it would be. The amount of people that would be required to go along with that would be absurd. This isn't just Bannon or Elon snapping their fingers and magically manipulating people, it's systems that take immense resources to train and execute and finetune which requires many high level engineers from many different specialties and large administrative actions most likely which consists of people who just so happen to more often than not lean to the progressive side. As I said, there is undoubtedly attempts to manipulate people for political gain. But I highly suspect people are underestimating the ML models that comprise these systems effectively running with their optimization signal and gaming social media.
I see a ton of people that are pushing the need to understand the struggles of PPD and PPP which, fair enough, is important to acknowledge. But I don't think we should be having this conversation around a woman who, not only murdered her three children, but also didn't have PPD or PPP anyway.
It's PCOS women are forever pushing for the need to be understood for all manner of bad behavior or weaponized helplessness. You know. Eff the patriarchy for making it tough on them for like, forever, and instead of doing anything concrete or decisive to put themselves in power. They'll just moan about it. Endlessly.
Like...take it?
C'mon ladies, if you'd be so much better at ruling the world why aren't ya doing it yet? Can't even organize a coup...tsk tsk tsk
The actual psy op is culture war stuff that pushes men to the right, like "bear or man?" and then trashing men.
This sub is kind of the opposite because it makes you feel sane. Reddit as a hive mind, or at least specific vocal subreddits, may have you questioning that WRT this case.
These psyops don’t just target one group. They seed disinformation to multiple targets to lead them all towards a specific goal. The goal in this case seems to be generating a call to revoke women’s right to vote.
Ex: Seeding disinformation about “Patrick being the real killer” to groups of women, and then seeding far right groups with posts about “look at how crazy these Lindsay supporters are, they blame her husband even after she admitted it!! More proof we can’t trust women, and need to repeal the 19th amendment!”
Most people are pretty locked in to their ideologies. You aren't going to sway anyone who seriously discusses repealing the 19th amendment. They are maga 100%. You aren't going to sway pro choice, progressive, free thinking, independent women.
The psy op pits those women against all men and pushes them right. "I'm a Democrat but.. they hate me and I'm probably a raper? Maga sucks, i guess I won't vote."
Child murder shouldn't divide people. This is entirely the fault of anyone excusing that woman of anything. If we cant even come together for shit like this then God needs to do what he did to Soddom and Gamorrah.
I think you should read the Bible before you start pulling out examples because you look like an idiot. I’m not religious either but I’ve at least read the book.
How do I look like an idiot? Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed with sulfur and fire raining from the skies. The only family surviving being Lot's, except for his wife who turned into a pillar of salt when she looked back.
The context was that those societies were full of arrogance, inhospitality and neglect as well as sexual misconduct and violence. I also read the bible, and used the example to point out the absolute rot that is in our society.
You think that those that want her to be accurately medically examined are saying murder is not wrong?
Not even the murderer herself or her legal defense are saying "murder is wrong". She's guilty. She day is she's guilty, her defense says she's guilty, those that want her to be properly examined say she's guilty.
She only decision is whether she is out into a join or a psych ward.
Your first mistake is mistaking internet bot and troll storms for actual people and tiktokers for anything other than grifter profiting off the exposure.
Yep, so let's remember that it's class war and the parasites that don't want us to have proper healthcare caused this. The world would be very different if people could freely access psychiatrists and if those psychiatrists didn't have incentive to push specific drugs.
It works. Theres no talk about the epstein files anymore. Big content creators making videos, it was huge for about a week. Then silence. The files will never be leaked, all that was leaked was on purpose. Even if we learned the truth of it all, how much would that change the world? I dont think itd make a dent.
The Epstein files have been in the public consciousness for years at this point — it’s not a problem of lack of publicity. The problem is that the president could be outed with undeniable video evidence and not face any consequences. This case is entirely separate from that issue, so why are you trying to tie them together?
The problem is people acting like she wasn't insane, that "hormones" are the reason, or she's treated differently because she's a woman and men in the same situation are treated differently.
However, the "cold-blooded" meaning "no remorse" seems completely false.
She hates herself now she's lucid and tried to kill herself.
It's classic where people online get outraged by the imaginary arguments against their point. Like she never getting free, it's just about will she be in jail or a hospital.
Generally prison terms are set at sentencing, while mental institutes can keep you until they think you are safe/literally forever if they feel like it. (And studies show you are far more likely to live through a prison sentence than to ever leave a mental institution if remanded there for a violent crime)
She supposedly killed the kids because of postpartum psychosis, she would already be “safe” as long as she doesn’t give birth anymore, her condition isn’t lasting so what is stopping her from getting out after a year exactly ?
If she were genuinely safe, what would that matter?
It won't happen, because these institutions have no incentive to release people and, as mentioned, tend to hold people for far longer than they would have been in prison for the same crime, but if it did... what would the problem be?
Punishment doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't make society safer, or reduce the odds of similar crimes, or dissimilar crimes. It doesn't even make you, the person who thinks you want it, feel better. It's just punishment for it's own sake, pure sadism. Should we lock you up, for wanting to cause pointless suffering? That seems of way more use to society than what you are implying you want out of the justice system.
If we base this decision on her mental health and diagnosis, then she should be freed right now. Her issue was supposedly post partum psychosis, the kids are dead, why not release her? She mights get more kids in a few years tho, and there’s nothing you can do about that unless you lock her for life.
Wasn’t there loads of women outside the court supporting her in pink shirts?
There’s also a ton of people on tik tok that support her too pretending like she didn’t murder her 3 children. You can act like you haven’t seen much but you don’t need to lie…
A few hundred. They were doing it to bring attention to mental health issues. They were not there to directly support Lindsay at all.
When a bunch of tiktockers pick something up, it's because there's a lot of engagement around it. There is an excessive amount of engagement around this because of bots.
There's also a small group of men who do the same shit for the Tate brothers. People don't seem to have a hard time understanding that they are fringe and not representative of men.
This case is a great example of "multiple things can be true."
On one hand, it's clear-cut that she killed her children - she and her defense team do not deny it. That is something that people should absolutely be outraged over, and she deserves to be locked away, whether that's in a prison or a mental facility.
On the other, it's pretty obvious that this case has been picked up, co-opted, and amplified by misogynists and other right-wing groups to sow anti-woman sentiment among the public. It's hard to make hatred of women palatable to normal people on its own, but it's easier to make it palatable if you take an example like this and generalize with statements like "god women are so crazy aren't they? How could they do something like this and try to justify it as post partum depression? If this woman uses it as an excuse, what's stopping others from trying to use it to excuse their crimes? Don't trust them."
Yes, this woman committed a horrific and inexcusable crime, for which she should be locked up for life. But I'm also sick of hearing about this case because I know that certain groups with an agenda are purposely trying to keep it in the public consciousness so they can farm outrage against women and milk it for engagement as long as they possibly can.
I can certainly believe it plausible that she acted due to insanity. Which alters the moral calculus somewhat. But all that changes materially is whether a jury should remand her to psychiatric ward rather than a prison.
yes, and the wild thing is people comment on this case so much w/o understanding that she's going to a psych ward if she's found not guilty due to insanity. Like the only difference in guilty/not guilty here is whether she's going to be locked up in a prison or a psych ward. She'd going away regardless
The anti-women sentiment is being stirred up by women who express support for this murderer online. If women universally were repelled by the idea of one of their own murdering their kids and getting essentially an out-of-jail-free card, there would be nothing for misogynists to rage about.
I haven't commented in these threads before now, because it just reminds me of what happened with Karmelo Anthony and Iryna Zarutska.
Thread after thread by people with extremely openly racist profiles, who ran white supremacist subs, just trying to get people angry. Taking a handful of online reactions from black people and women and using it to generalize that society punished only white men and it's a conspiracy and happens because 'they' are evil and hate us.
Never forget that Gamergate was funded by people like Peter Thiel, Steve Bannon and Jeffrey Epstein, and was considered an important part to winning the culture war. The internet fuels perceptions of reality based on fear completely disconnected from actual statistics or nuance. And they need that, to convince people to vote against their interests.
Exactly. Try to escape it. Try hitting “not interested” on posts about the case. It doesn’t make it stop, and that would only happen if it was being actively pushed at people.
This is especially apparent on Facebook. Even if you ask to stop seeing a specific account recommended, the bombardment won’t stop unless you block the profile. Ffs, I was getting Matt Walsh posts about Clancy absolutely hurled at me (I’m extremely left leaning), and was only able to get it to stop by blocking his profile entirely.
Yup. I haven’t engaged at all, this is actually my first time talking about it at all.
Anything that is suddenly everywhere, inescapable, and causing lot of commotion and making people act out and fight is a psyop. It’s actually much more sane to believe that than to think all this stuff just happens naturally.
People would be shocked to know how many crazy, fucked up news worthy cases aren’t covered by the news so why is it that they cherry pick certain ones and get people all riled up?
Just look at the way people are acting, and with such a sensitive topic. Now we even have copycats and they are of course being reported on too. Psyop. The trick is, it targets both sides equally and is equally damaging for everyone in society
I tried to avoid it, because the case is just too morbid for me and even if she was insane I have a hard time caring about what happens to someone who murdered their own children. I eventually looked into the case, because of how inescapable it was, and I wanted to at least know what was misinformation. Unsurprisingly, 99% of what was showing up in my feed was misinformation.
I spent weeks trying to avoid the case before I finally gave in and started looking into what happened. The few times I've commented on posts about it, it was to correct the misinformation I was seeing.
I'd already noticed the similarities to what happened with Depp/Heard and Baldoni/Lively social media seeding, and there's been extensive coverage on how those were misinformation campaigns lead by a former Epstein contact named Melissa Nathan (NYT had a great article on it, Nathan is also known to work with Trump). Still I didn't initially question the Clancy posts, because I remember there was a similar fervor over Andrea Yates, but when I literally couldn't get the same accounts to stop being spammed in my FB feed I knew something weird was going on. Then the "repeal the 19th" posts started trending, and it all clicked.
There is no doubt left in my mind that this case is being used in a psyop at this point. When you combine it with the fact that Trump just redirected childcare subsidies used to help working class families to only go to stay-at-home parents (it's $9k/year, and women need to give up their careers to get it), I genuinely expect he's going to start pushing to revoke women's right to vote soon under the guise of "popular sentiment".
It's a troll/bot account. Look at their profile, they've been spamming Lindsay Clancy posts for the last 24 hours.
I wrote more about it in my own reply.
I've been researching troll farms for years, specifically the ones that are used by Melissa Nathan. A few tactics of Nathan's include getting her own people into admin/moderation positions, "aging accounts", and using a mix of bots and human activity on the same account as a means to bypass bot detection. One of the tactics her company, TAG PR, used was to open accounts and let them age over several years, as most people think bot accounts are going to be newer.
Again, at best this is a low effort troll who is just trying to rile people up, and at worst this is actual evidence of the psyop we are actively talking about.
You aren’t even responding to anything I actually said, you’re just leaving rage bait comments. I don’t support Clancy, and had you actually taken the time to read anything you were replying to you would have seen that.
That’s what makes you a troll.
Please keep responding. You are proving my point about a psyop, and I am loving this. 🩷
EDIT: I was hoping BIG_IDEA would keep responding, but I think someone is sweating about losing their job at Tag PR... For the people reading through this chain, please take a moment to look at the mod team for this subreddit. There are 45 separate accounts dedicated to moderating this sub. I noticed this user trolling people in this thread a good half hour before they responded to me (I didn't comment on any of their responses before they started targeting my comments). None of their responses made sense in context of what they were responding to, and it was obvious they were just trying to rage bait users.
How does a 45 user mod team not flag that? This particular comment chain is about the possibility of a psyop, and I've seen multiple users bringing up lax moderation that is easily exploitable. I want to also bring up a known tactic of troll farms (specifically the ones that Epstein/Trump contact Melissa Nathan employs) to get their own people into moderation/admin positions, so that seeded content and bot/troll accounts aren't flagged.
Even if this is just some bored rando looking to rage bait people for their own amusement, how does a 45 user mod team not flag that person and ban them from the sub?
You want evidence of a psyop? Start looking for obvious bot/troll accounts responding in the comments that go wholly ignored by the people in charge of moderating the conversation. The fact that it's so easy to find troll accounts going unchecked like the one I am currently responding to is just one of many reasons I am growing increasingly convinced there is something very weird going on with the Clancy posts.
i think most of the reason it's so widespread is because so many people are defending her. It's generating a ton of conversation. Usually, with family annihilators, at least that i've seen, they don't get defended to such a degree and understandably people in response are like "what the fuck? you people are crazy".
It's not that I think this shouldn't be talked about, but the amount this is getting talked about compared to the million other problems going on right now seems disproportionate
Then post and talk about the problems you want to talk about. All you’re doing is feeding into the loop you hate so much by engaging with it. There’s no point in going to a post with people talking about X and being like “guys stop talking about X I wanna talk about Y” just go and start talking about Y and there will be other people that will talk about Y with you, whilst the others can still talk about X until they’re blue in the face and done.
you don't like being fed semi-scripted bot conversations about child murder on the front page of reddit all day every day? DO YOU NOT BELIEVE IN JUSTICE?!
It was co-opted by a psyop. Notice how people are talking less about Iran, and this case is being used to start bonkers discussions about repealing the 19th amendment?
Look up Melissa Nathan. She’s the one behind the Depp/Heard and Baldoni/Lively social media bombardment. She’s a former Epstein contact that has worked with Trump for awhile. Early in the Depp/Heard case when it first became apparent their was a troll farm involved in seeding online disinformation, there was a lot of speculation that Melissa Nathan and Adam Waldman (Depp’s original lawyer, also another Epstein contact) were running a test case to see if they could use social media disinformation to influence court cases.
Idk if it’s Nathan behind the Lindsay Clancy posts/disinformation seeding, but it reeks of her previous work, and it’s becoming increasingly clear there’s something really off with how much this case is getting spammed at people and the dialogue that’s being generated.
bc it gets people riled up and therefore gets people karma. no one who posts these things actually cares about those kids or any kids or justice. this case has been reduced to clickbait
I swear this case is so over publicized as a means to divert people's attention to culture wars instead of taking on oligarchs. Absolute brain dead type shit.
Your right it's all a big psyop and certainly not a divisive case where folks on either side can't comprehend the others position, there has never been a case like that
It might make you feel better to know it’s absolutely forced. It’s being pushed hard by the right. There are bot accounts spamming this story.
Why?
Because they’re quietly trying to link hormonal psychosis to abolition of the 19th amendment. “If women can suffer psychosis from hormonal surges, they cannot be trusted with the right to vote.”
Which we all remember is a core tenet of project 2025.
But that's opposite of what's argued, which side is arguing she was insane so should face no prison?
I even called it out that excusing this and promoting this defence will just make women look insane in need of forced insane asylums. That's what her supporters want, that's what they mean she was failed. Look at what they argue, that doctors should assume she lies and should be taken away, that her children should be taken away, that she should never been left alone.
This story is focused because people for some reason decided to defend her.
The propaganda is everpresent online, polarizing issues like this are exploited for gain and governments do it too.
Even if you remove yourself from it entirely and move countries and become even more aware, you realize that is just so difficult to break away. As long as people still believe they're engaging with humans, as long as people has the attention span of goldfish, as long as people in general are unwilling to reflect....im forced to witness for personal gain myself. I moved to a concrete box in a developing country and kids are running around yelling 6-7, you notice the flocks of EU women by the skin tight black shorts they wear and specific make-up. Kids doing everything they can to fit in with the world are simply exploited and put on a treadmill for others' benefit, they become adults and it doesn't end.
People chronically online enough to do what they are doing would have been called 'neckbeards' in years past, but nowadays its just so normal and especially with the exploitation of the psychology of women it is especially insidious. With men its more 'inside joke-y' and both sides make whatever bubble they're in their personality, but i think with women its just a bigger vulnerability, the effects more powerful and more subtle. Either way the grip on society, men and women has become stronger. It'll lock in and we become like wall-e-world or it breaks and regular people avoid internet engagement.
'They' certainly play the long game and are playing chess while most people are playing checkers. Bottom line is that it costs 'them' almost nothing to shift the Overton window for gain and people don't care because they like being part of the crowd anyways.
It is almost certainly a mk ultra type deal, a psy ops to get us at each other's throats again .this one is an odd one though,it's almost female vs male. It's the whole Bear thing all over again just on a whole different level
Astroturfed to hell. Far right, manosphere, red pill, incel crap. Remember Ghislaine Maxwell moderated alot of subs. Steve Bannon with 4chan and gamergate. Last time reddit fervently hated a woman this much was Blake Lively which was found out to be orchestrated by Baldoni's (backed by a billionaire) PR company.
As another commenter said, they’re just trying to get us to attack each other so we don’t focus on the shit that is actually terrible - Epstein, the active recession, inflation, the strengthening of the oligarchy and technocrat class.
NO WAR BUT THE CLASS WAR
I think its probably just millions of involuntarily celibate American men who believe garotting three children is an equivalent offense to declining sex with them, and since they believe the latter should be punished by death without trial, that must mean the former should be as well even if they support family annihilation when aggrieved losers of their own gender do it
I mean this case is a great example of how the society treats men and women differently, to the advantage of women. Despite what feminists and Reddit would like you to believe
Look up Melissa Nathan. She was the one behind the Depp/Heard and Baldoni/Lively disinformation campaigns. She’s a former Epstein contact that has worked with Trump for years.
I don’t know that it’s her behind the Clancy post bombardment, but whoever is seeding these posts is at least using her work as a template.
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u/kinglywy 15h ago
What happened to the sub? Literally the only thing I see now is this case.
This all feels forced it's a messed up case but the amount it's being shoved down our throats feels like there is other motives at play.