Well, at least they found a lawsuit template that works. ☠️

Have you seen CoA's feature showcase video? It's simply so fucking good and a permanent SoD can never get even close to that. I simply have 0 interest in whatever Blizzard does because the community has shown they're better at delivering an actual good product.

I am more excited about CoA than I am about Blizz Classic+ which is likely going to be a mid ass experience that is just perma SoD. No risks taken. Just safe, boring, and predictable.

I appreciate the pserver community and will continue to support it.

Especially so, I've noticed that virtually any topic related to, or branching off from Turtle WoW, is full of people who worship Blizz and shit-talk all private servers.

Prodding some of these people, they actively admit they have no interest in private servers, and regularly come on here to stir trouble.

Are these people paid, or are they just assholes jumping in from Retail to kick the community while it's down?

Why do moderators seem to have no interest in cultivating a community that isn't full of people against the entire community?

19 days ago a thread was created on here to announce the project, keep a note of the username 'ExactAd4629' and notice the way they are talking about the project

thread title:

Introducing RavenCraft: A new WoW server built by former Turtle WoW 1.18.1 contributors https://i.imgur.com/oO3vQkF.png

"we" "we'll" etc. using verbiage that aligns them to be a team member of the project.

11 days ago they made another thread acting as an observer, using verbiage like "their" "they're"

thread title:

RavenCraft posted their content roadmap https://i.imgur.com/qYNbMEA.png

8 days ago, the same user is now back to talking like they are part of the team "we're"

thread title:

RavenCraft 1.18.1 Roadmap: What do you think about the phase lengths? https://i.imgur.com/WURXMlU.png

and now 1 day ago, they are back to pretending to be a casual player that's not part of the project team... here is the same user, acting like he played on the server for the first time and trying to convince people to give it a try and even goes on to say "I'm obviously not a developer"

thread title:

Gave RavenCraft Medivh a try after all the drama https://i.imgur.com/2ecQlu6.png

So, what do you think? is this person part of the team or are they just a 'fan' of the project trying to promote it on here by pretending to be a dev in some posts, while in other posts acting like a casual pserver enjoyer in others - in my opinion this person is part of the project team and I don't trust this project at all.

I always knew about Turtle(Shenna/Torta) WoW being related to Elysium and them doing shady stuff and buying out/releasing several servers and building a private servers empire in the past, recently Everlook's direction and ownership changed and I once again saw the same pattern as when Turtle WoW took over other private servers in the past.

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I decided to investigate more, gather some strong evidences of that "private server empire" some people are running behind the scenes and I got some very interesting finds and evidences.

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Jump to the bottom if you want to see the most damning part with the "payment" section.

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Let's start with the recent Everlook "update" which got my attention, the moment it was announced I was expecting it to be another Turtle buyout because there were a lot of similarities, hardcore mode, shop, usual ownership take over, china server, going "vanilla+"...

And I was right, they just released their cash shop etc and it has the Turtle WoW pattern.

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Let's look at the new cash shop. https://everlook.org/shop

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Note that the turtle mount gets extra attention, because it's the basic scaling turtle mount from turtle wow

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We have the usual purchasable bag, it's the main money maker for turtle wow they couldn't resist even if Everlook as supposed to be a "pure" vanilla server.

Here's the turtle WoW bag, same token price :

Now let's take a loot at the payment systems :

https://everlook.org/donate

You can only use a service called gamepoints.org to pay, we will go back to that later as it is a very important point.

Let's look at the tokens pricing : It's almost identical to turtle wow except the "extra" % scales a bit higher on turtle WoW. 40€ are both 440 etc

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It looks even more identical if we look at the pricing directly from the payment webste (yes turtle also uses this website as their primary payment but we'll elaborate on that later)

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Previous instances of servers being affiliated with Turtle WoW in the past :

#1 Vanilla+

Vanilla+ is the main one, it has an extremly similar take over pattern to Everlook, here is a post about their shop :

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/i4vf9h/vanilla_adds_paid_36_slot_bags_and_level_1_mounts/

In 2020 Vanilla+ launched, back at the time whenVanilla+ was brand new and Turtle WoW was still fairly fresh the only Vanilla servers were basically Elysium, Turtle WoW, kronos and Gurubashi. (remember those names)

Here's the story of the launch of Vanilla+ : They were under heavy DDOS when they launched and the server was completely unplayable for a couple days/weeks, they needed money for a new host with better DDOS protection. The server was dying rapidly because the playerbase was fed up.

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They decided to shutdown the server and have a relaunch later with a new setup.

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Then we had Crogge, the previous owner of Elysium coming in discord suggesting to login to their host and fix it for them. If you don't know about Crogge/elysium he was pretty close to Shenna which is highly suspected to be Torta, the owner of Turtle WoW with a new identity.

Some logs of Crogge from the vanilla+ discord still publicly available :

Images : https://imgur.com/a/4aD9xU3 (he has pages of logs in there you can check it on V+)

Note his message : "This chat became my daily entertainment nearly every pserver admin is in here btw" which clearly indicates multiple private server admins work together/are friends and he's part of that group and they were interested in V+.

Vanilla+ suddendly had a new change of ownership, "Myriam"(another suspicious new female identity) took over which I highly suspect to be Shenna/Torta, it was an alias, that person appeared/disapeared out of nowhere, server finally worked and.. and a new donation shop was added, with mounts and 28 slots bags. Vanilla+ always advertised themselves as strongly anti cash shop and pay to win before that.

Context : VooA was the original creator of Vanilla+, and the cash shop just got announced out of nowhere by Myriam.

Images : https://imgur.com/a/psAV0wr

https://vanillaplus.org/rewards/

The cash shop page is still up and nearly identical to what Turtle WoW used at the time, it had the same skins, mounts, features (the portable devices etc that are very turtle specific)

Another elements : The emotes. The Turtle WoW emotes were added whenever Myrium took over and they are still used in their dsicord to this day, https://i.imgur.com/HVBucjA.png

Obvious conspiracy theory : Turtle/Elysium were reponsible for the DDOS to take over competition, make your own mind on that.

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#2 Gurubashi

Gurubashi was a brand new Vanilla server launched in 2020, slightly before Vanilla+, there was basically no competition for vanilla at the time because Light Hope closed whwen Classic launched.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/fedx6q/gurubashi_wow_new_vanilla_pvp_server/

Gurubashi was a well known Turtle wow/elysium drone, it died pretty quickly because it simply couldn't compete with Classic WoW. Crogge was actively invested in it https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/hybnxx/comment/fzi5lwp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

It also had the Turtle WoW design and cash shop, just like V+, but sadly everything got nuked it isn't really archived. Those who were there remember though.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200806215648/https://gurubashi.org/ The website design was exactly the same as the others.

here's some old comment about their relations : https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/ljm2v3/comment/gnebxai/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

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#3 Elysium... Obviously, the Shenna/Elysium/Turtle relation is well known, it was their main project before Turtle WoW.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowserversdrama/comments/p7avjv/suspicions_about_turtle_wow/

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I can't really think of any other obvious Turtle wow drone right now but there might be more I don't know.

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Now about my biggest find... The payment website.

Their payment website https://gamepoints.org/ is very obscure, you will not find anything about it online, or by even searching it on Google. https://gamepoints.org/about (based in mexico)

To pay for Turtle WoW, you access this URL : https://gamepoints.org/offers/15

The 15 is indeed the "service" ID.

Now let's take a look at Everlook :

https://gamepoints.org/offers/23

ID 23... Those are pretty low, not many games seem to use this website.

Let's be curious and look at some of other IDs...

https://gamepoints.org/offers/1

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Yep that's right, #1, the very first service to use that website is Firestorm, and most likely the creator.

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Here's a list of all the "games" using this website for payment : (the IDs i'm not listing are unused/removed

4 : GTAworld, a GTA RP "private server", seems to be affiliated with Firestorm&co

5 : GTAworldFr

6 : .... Elysium. Yep that's right.

7 : Uwow

8 : Vanilla+... yeah we're on something.

10 : PandaWow

11 : Xero (some other mmo private server)

12 : gtaWorldRu

13 : gtaWorld liberty City

14 : gtaWorldpoland

16 : Turtle WoW

16 : gtaWorld Spain

17 : Felsong...

18 : GTA again

19 : FirestormCN

20 : gtaworld

21 : WoWmythic

22 : Turtle Wow China (very recent)

23 : EVERLOOK

24 : Everlook China

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Yes Vanilla+ is in there, if you didn't have enough proofs.

Chronological order obviously also checks out, we can retrace this private servers empire history, this website is obviously not used by anyone else but this group which owns an empire of private servers.

Note : I only have knowledge of Vanilla servers, maybe they also took over some of those servers in a similar way.

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Edit bonus : I forgot about when Hyjal merged with Turtle WoW when it died https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/nhwrc9/hyjal_is_merging_into_turtle_wow/

Bonus Edit 2 : Suspicions of Shenna(Torta)/Elysium being involved In DDOSing/hacking previously https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/9b46ez/comment/e54c438/?context=999

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/98le7x/comment/e4gxtdx/?context=999

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowserversdrama/comments/p7avjv/suspicions_about_turtle_wow/

On May 14th:

• Stormforge closes.
• Turtle WoW closes.
• TBC Phase 2 launches.

Coincidence?

With the latest news regarding Ascension being sued by Blizzard, many of us began to question the future of Project Epoch and wonder where to go next.

But fret not, Epoch will be reborn.

As announced earlier this month, the project has been rebuilt by a developer known as Mace. While there is currently no official release date, work is progressing steadily to bring Epoch back to life as soon as possible.

Moving forward, we’ll continue to keep you updated on the server’s progress and provide all the essential information and resources related to it. We’ll be restructuring this Discord over the next few days to align it with Epoch's new direction.

In the meantime, if you'd like to contribute to the project's development as a developer or tester, you can apply through the project's website and join the developer's Discord.

To really get that original WoW look, use a CRT screen

I know there was a similar post about this topic, but it was just broad discussion among everyone, but here I would like to emphasize more on what actual ex-twow players think about playing official classic+ (likely releasing in couple months from now). Does it matter for you what features will official classic+ have? What sort of criteria would you go with for choosing official classic+ or playing pservers these days? I am interested in all sorts of opinions coming from people who had played turtle before.

I personally will try out classic+ for maybe first couple days to maybe see if some of old friends decided to join it, but don't have any long term plans on staying there if it is not of my taste

its tiring to constantly see servers pop up that have AI generated "art" and are vibecoded

If it's offline, Blizzard can't find you, if they can't find you, they don't know... duh

Patch 1.18.1: Nightmares of Ursol was released on March 20, 2026

Turtle WoW 2.0 was cancelled

Echoes of Quel'Thalas should be next, followed by Hammers and Talons

How come none of these are part of the Turtle-clones dev roadmaps and not even talked about in the slightest bit? if they are professing to be 'former devs' surely they have/had insight into them. But looking at their actual roadmaps and what they discuss on discord; notice how ambitious narrative patches or massive custom expansions are almost nearly absent from these new projects? they often rely on quick configurations, modified rates, and other bait to hook players, rather than building for deep, long term custom content. If a project is truly bringing something unique and high quality to the table, they will show it. They'll have working alpha footage, clear technical milestones, and transparent proofs of concept - not just vague promises that they "used to work on the good stuff".

To my knowledge, as of right now there is only 1 project based on Turtle-core that is actually attempting to do custom content, and that project hasn't 'launched' yet; it's not Capy, Octo, Raven or Sands.

I really hope Ascension will survive the lawsuit. Honestly best version of WoW ever created.

Worst case scenario can it be somehow copied? Like turtle Capybara or something?

Or at least i would like to play it offline. Both freepick and CoA!

I never cared about a server this much. ❤️

TLDR answers: I want to play an MMO but without talking to anyone. And that's okey because in today's MMO no one talks. And I'm totally not the problem.

Since when do people want to play on a server full of bots?

What's fun about seeing 100 "players" in Stormwind and you know none of them talks?

Why would you look at any of them?

Why would you read anyone's name?

WoW is when you see a guy in town and you remember doing a Deadmines run with him a month ago.

WoW is when you open the auction house and you see the guy selling that BoE item have lowered the price.

WoW is when you go help someone from general chat to kill an elite.

WoW is when type "ty" to the druid that buffed you when passing by.

People don't play on dead servers because half the game is the players, their stories, thier unscripted interactions.

Why would you play a slop experience?

You don't have time to commit to a real server? Play a real single player game. Play RDR2. Play Witcher 3.

Play a single player game with NPCs that actually have something to add to your experience.

Save your WoW hunger to when you can REALLY play WoW.