r/webtoons • u/_TeNtAsTiC_ • 1d ago
Discussion Media literacy epidemic on Webtoon
I don't know if I'm the only one who has noticed this, but I have always been bothered by the majority of webtoon commenters. Most of them seem to lack absolute media literacy and don't know how to reflect/critically think on what they consume.
I think this is such a prevalent behaviour, for webtoon commenters to consume and not think or reflect on it at all, because webtoons are generally easy to digest/understand. Unlike other types of media that REQUIRE critical thinking from the reader, most webtoons are easy to read, understand and, frankly, don't require critical thinking at all. However, in my opinion, this becomes an issue when webtoons that seek to present a deeper narrative, emotive, conflictive and not purely morally right, webtoon readers just can't digest that at all.
For some reason they will read it anyways, will not think critically about anything presented to them and proceed to hate/love characters as soon as they are shown on their screen, putting no effort to understand them, and get bored when the plot gets thick and comment "I just want to see [ex: main couple]". I'm currently re-reading The Fox Club, and it's so frustrating to see that the readers are not even trying to understand the story, which is deeper than most webtoons. My favorite, Pink Through The Night, also suffers from this, especially when it came to Oscar AND Luciana. It has happened since I can remember, that someone comment how they hate a character that was just presented and gets a bunch of likes.
•
u/lalacarbonara 1d ago
The comments were always hard to read but I feel like it has gotten worse.
•
u/Lilac_14 1d ago
I don't know if you mean as in grammar and spelling or as in the content is terrible, but both are very prominant issues.
Some of them are having strokes in the comment section.
•
u/lalacarbonara 1d ago
Some are lacking in the critical thinking department. I don't mind the spelling because not everyone's first language is English.
•
u/Lilac_14 1d ago
Of course. I don't blame them if it's not their first language, I mean the ones that write in a weird way on purpose like they wrote in a hurry or took some random letter off.
•
•
•
u/tenkohime 1d ago
This REALLY concerns me too. It's so bad Lore Olympus needed to explain what metaphors are.
In Go Away Romeo there were comments asking where to read Romeo and Juliet. It's in the public domain and easier to find than the Webtoon they're currently reading. I've seen this happen with other Webtoons based on works in the public domain.
Similar issue is comments about if something is an adaptation when the credits say so. The credits are there for a reason.
•
•
u/Thick-Philosophy-658 1d ago
I remember Rachel writing at the end of one of the episodes "Guys, when Demeter said the Goddess of Spring is dead, she didn't mean Persephone is actually dead" (paraphrasing it but yk) đ
•
u/Raijinili 1d ago
People who can figure out how to find that info won't be represented in the top-level comments, because they won't need to comment. Even if 99% of people know, the askers come from that 1%.
In Go Away Romeo there were comments asking where to read Romeo and Juliet. It's in the public domain and easier to find than the Webtoon they're currently reading. I've seen this happen with other Webtoons based on works in the public domain.
Lots of people don't know about public domain and copyright, and might not be in a place with the same kinds of copyright law. They might not even know that public domain works are freely available online (lack of legal problems != openly available), or (rarely) are in countries where "public domain" might not be recognized. They might not even know that there are time limits for copyright, or that Romeo and Juliet is old, or what Romeo and Juliet is.
Similar issue is comments about if something is an adaptation when the credits say so. The credits are there for a reason.
I usually see "Original work by", which, to people who aren't familiar with the webnovel -> webtoon pipeline, isn't a strong sign that it was a novel. Or do you mean things like "Not Even Bones"?
•
•
u/False-Sky6091 1d ago
Itâs not limited to WEBTOONs at least in the US there is a literacy crisis.
•
u/Ashblowsup 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lots of thoughts, I like to elaborate so this will be long. I'll separate my shit into two for clarity. My apolocheese in advance.
1- Is it necessarily bad?
I agree with the comments here saying people are just having fun and not everything has to be taken seriously, but I also agree with you in that some comments really get disappointing and sad, especially when you can see the author put a lot of thought into the characters, only for them to get turned into a bland caricature of themselves by the readers.
"Pink through the night" is definitely a good example. The characters are so complex and represent mental illness and issues so so well, but the comments are just not ready for that amount of thought.
A bit less important but still upsetting is when the author made it very clear what kind of story this would be, from the start, but you'll find all the top comments in ep 150 complaining the main couple didn't kiss yet. Are we serious?
I just feel for the artists and writers. This kind of thing can kill the passion after seeing it happen to your story over and over again, and I did see it happen to many artists over the years.
2- "Media literacy epidemic on webtoon"
I don't think that's exactly what's happening.
⢠A lot of these are from teenagers. We all posted that kind of comment at some point, and then we grew out of it, and so they will. Calling them out kindly might help though.
⢠The media literacy epidemic is a general one. We're seeing it everywhere, not just on webtoons. It's a huge problem, that sadly profits the ones in power, so it's already bad and it's still going downhill.
⢠Webtoon is still a big company. They also want money. Just like every other big company, it's less expensive to throw the same bland products at mindless consumers than it is to give them something that makes them think and stays with them for life. That's the biggest reason romantasy isekais and RPG-inspired action with edgy male leads are all over the app nowadays.
It's just like fast food, fast fashion, doomscrolling, the plagiarism machine, etc. They make people feel good on the short term with no effort. I know a lot of webtoon users irl who read those, and they genuinely can't tell you which character is from what and what story happened to who, because they're all the same template with different names and hair colors. Yet, they love them because it's a good way to turn off your brain.
When that kind of reader reads something more complicated, the pattern-recognition in the human brain does its job. Woman who is not perfectly kind? What a bitch! Man who is being too cocky? Hope the main character humiliates him! They have a couple well ingrained templates in their brain and they try to place them on the stories they read.
It's something I don't blame the readers for. I blame the companies and governments that made decisions that led to this, forgetting the quality for money.
•
u/Sir__Bassoon__Sonata 1d ago
Probably a majority being quite literally children. If a big part of the audience is 12-17. When I started reading tower of god I was 15. I didnât care about the social aspects, how a fascist government acts or how FUG are terrible. Viole was cool, cool powers and cool world. I didnât need deeper themes to enjoy it. Rachel was a bitch and that was enough.
And that is totally fine. Children should read, should enjoy things. Sure itâs nice if they critically work with it. But thatâs not required. Let children have fun and let them have a space to be children.
•
u/_TeNtAsTiC_ 1d ago
I feel like this is a pretty easy conclusion, to say they're mostky children. Either way you're right, they're mostly children but it doesn't take away from the fact webtoon comments are pften times missing the point, that's all I wanted to point out
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
I don't know about that, in regular social media adults want to turn everything into a porn joke, it doesn't read too different to webtoon comments that only focus on the scenes with the guys showing his abs or possible shipping
•
u/Solarynny 1d ago
While I do understand your point that children should have safe spaces for them to discuss media they like, I can also understand the frustration of wanting to have a proper discussion about the plot only to be met with surface level comments that are somehow at the top of a lot of webtoons.
It mainly depends on the webtoon and its intended target audience, of course.
For titles such as Acception or Marionetta, for example, their stories do read as aimed for an younger teen audience, so I don't expect in-depth analysis on what happened in a chapter â especially because Webtoons limits of 300 characters is absolutely maddening when wanting to make in-depth analysis.
On something intended for the late teen public like Fox Club or that clearly has heavy themes that are more well suited for a more mature audience, however? It absolutely is pretty frustrating when you want to see a comment that feels a little more constructive than just shipping two characters together on a chapter where they weren't the focus (or even showed up at all).
•
u/bluef00tedbooby 1d ago edited 1d ago
I had unlimited unsupervised access to the internet since I was 8, and I wrote better than these people. I don't think that's an excuse...
•
u/petrichor-pixels 1d ago
Honestly, I always feel so mixed about comments like this that are basically like âwell I could do this thing, so someone else like me who couldnât do this thing has no excuseâ. Yes, it does show that they could potentially be better, but also⌠these people arenât you, lol. I was someone who could always write and read well as a kid, but I was aware that I was ahead of the curve. Do I think young people should be more literate etc, especially nowadays? Yes. Am I also aware that many⌠just might not be, not even for reasons to do with poor education systems or whatever? Also yes. I dunno. Best to not just use yourself for a metric for what others can do either way, imo.
•
u/bluef00tedbooby 1d ago
To add to this, my parents had no part of my education, they weren't really involved in my life. All I had was the public school. Yes they aren't me, but the thing I've noticed with these kids is that they do not care. Their parents don't care. They have no reason to want to learn because it is whatever. Some kids even pride themselves on not knowing. I don't necessarily blame the kids. I blame the parents. I think the only reason I did well is because I cared enough to learn. School was my safe space, the only place I had adults encourage me. These kids just don't give a fvck, thus they choose ignorance
•
u/SweatyDark6652 18h ago edited 18h ago
I stopped reading the comments bc the lack of quality but I totally agree with you. Most readers read webtoon/webcomic for fun and to relaxed after long hours at school/work, why expect more than comments writing in like 2 seconds on a bus ride?
•
u/PUNCH-WAS-SERVED 1d ago
Children with no life experience. I can bet you a lot of them haven't even filled out a single tax return before, but they are somehow "experts" about all kinds of weird/crazy shit. Right...
•
u/Electronic-Cover7581 1d ago
oh my god i thought i was the only one đ¤Śââď¸ itâs gotten so bad that i skip reading the comments every time i finish a episode
•
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
what bothers me the most is this fixation with shipping characters, even if the characters hate each other not in a ''enemies to lovers way'', just plain hate or characters that don't even interact with each other, etc
I think that these stories offer more than just ''possible ships''
•
u/Exciting-Mall192 1d ago
Tbh shipping does not need to make sense, you just need to be delusional enough to start one. That's always been the point of shipping, that's why back in the days the Jack Frost x Elsa ship were HUGE that many series have cross fandom shipping. It's called a crack ship đ but yeah, the point is that it's delusional, but then I get you, some people gets too serious about shipping that when the story does not go into the direction they want, they actually throw a tantrum like a toddler in a supermarket. That part also bothers me a lot ngl
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
I mean, I understand that sometimes is just for fun, but it seems that a lot of people take shipping tooooo seriusly
Like, I can't believe that some people wuld put a description on their X account that reads ''I'm a supporter of this specific Ship, I will block anyone that dares to say anything negative of this ship!'' or ''this person is a fan of a really problematic ship!!'' some people just need to get a life!
The Jack Elsa reminds a lot of the Onceler X Onceler shipping... remember when the internet was all about this guy??
•
u/Thick-Philosophy-658 1d ago
Me getting an aneurysm when I see SaheJule comments in the Marionetta comment section (somebody died)
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
that is specially annoying, I always go inside my head ''really, people? Not even when a character dies are you able to stop your shipping stuff??? really???
•
u/troysama 1d ago
It has always been this way. Going to the comments after an insightful thematically rich chapter in ANYTHING is depressing because it's people farming likes with memes or getting mad that there isn't enough tiddy/aura farming  Why do you think solo leveling is popular?
•
u/PossessionUnusual185 1d ago
remember many commenters are children (not saying itâs everyone). we would all like to think we were media literate and articulate back when we were kids but we super werenât đ just running on âshipsâ and needing instant gratification.
the amount of comments i see like âwhy donât they just do [thing]?â Because then there wouldnât be a conflict?? and the story would be three panels long, then people would say âthatâs it? How boring.â i would hate to be a comic story writer lol
•
u/NoBuddy0124 1d ago
So true. I have seen so many times when people just start hating a character without thinking Also s I have seen people winning when they don't get all the information at the start like brother its gonna be revealed later and not everythingthe main character thinks is trueđĽ. Like ex- living with romeo, you can see so many comments(I wont spoil) I hope what I said made sense
•
u/Raijinili 1d ago edited 1d ago
Here's some critical thinking about why that is what you observe.
... because webtoons are generally easy to digest/understand. Unlike other types of media that REQUIRE critical thinking from the reader, most webtoons are easy to read, understand and, frankly, don't require critical thinking at all.
Why do you have the idea that other types of media REQUIRE critical thinking from the reader? What is the pool of samples? The sampling matters.
For example, if you compare comments that were written as people go through episodes week by week, and retrospectives that were written after completing the story (or at least an arc), of course you will see less-thoughtful comments in the first.
I am not sure what you've seen to have those opinions, and what you're comparing to, but there are some reasons why you're not seeing people at their best, and that can explain some of what you're seeing:
- Comments are emotional responses: comments are actions; action must be motivated; motivation comes from emotion. Easier emotions (like frustration) have an easier time passing the threshold for action.
- And if a point spans multiple episodes, then it can take multiple episodes for an emotional payoff, so the comments about that point will probably be at the payoff. That means you may get e.g. 5 comments about "Oh they're such a nice couple" for one "I knew that it was the dog all along".
- Thinking time eats into acting time. In general, people who have lower think:act ratios will be overrepresented in metrics of actions, and even people who USUALLY think will be more represented by their low think:act periods.
- This comment took me an hour and a half, including checking a few "Fox Club" episode comments. (Episode 32 has what OP is talking about, though you may need to be on mobile to jump directly to comments.) The first replies to your post will not have taken that long.
- Comments written under the episode are basically initial responses, because the comment box is accessible right after you read.
- This also causes comments to bias towards the last part of the episode. The easier path is taken more often. If people could add comments per panel, it would affect what kinds of comments get posted. (On YouTube, the comment box is right under the video, so comments often respond to the first few minutes of a long video.)
- People are reading episodes week by week (while you, presumably, are re-reading several episodes in a row). Most comments are from those people. It is harder for people to mentally take the plot into account while reading.
- A lot of people read comics to think less. This is a leisure activity. Also, while books can be considered a way of self-improvement, comics (and webnovels) may feel more like a dirty habit, so some would not try as hard.
- A lot of readers come for the ships.
Shippers are the worst. They are motivated by the shipper brain. There is no room in there for plot.- As in, there may be places where people are told to try this series because of shipping, or were brought in by a discussion about shipping.
There are biases caused by the voting system:
- Top comments are sorted by votes. I believe it's simple subtraction: upvotes minus downvotes. Voting is biased:
- Votes are also emotional responses. Emotion requires you to have an understanding (right or wrong) of the thing. Therefore, a comment which is easier to digest will be more likely to evoke emotion and get voted on. (And since sorting uses subtraction, a comment with 100-0 votes will lose to one with 1000-800 votes.)
- The more time you spend reading comments, the less time you have to vote. Most votes will come from people who aren't thinking as much.
- Comments with more votes will be seen more (probably exponential decay or something), and gather more votes (whether up or down).
People tend to want to write comments that get votes. Even if they don't understand it all consciously, they will want to write comments like the popular comments. That implies that the voting system and the audience affect which comments get posted. For example:
- In a books subreddit, the audience is probably more reflective, and the comments will try harder to show thinking, because that's the kind of people a "books subreddit" would attract.
- A subreddit is naturally more thoughtful than the WEBTOON comments section. Even in a fan subreddit for a battle shounen, you'll get comments and votes from people who care enough about the work to go to a fan subreddit (much more effort than commenting right below the episode), and that's a huge bias toward people who have thought about it and re-read it and (of course) talked about it with other people (i.e. collaborative reflection).
- Speaking about "talking about it with other people", I don't think WEBTOON gives notifications if you reply to someone and they reply back, which stops you from having conversations. You'd just throw in your two cents and leave. (This also shapes what kinds of comments get posted.)
Also, keep in mind that the metrics which get artists paid are probably driven by this "media-illiterate" majority. That could help dampen some of your frustration.
•
u/LinkssOfSigil 1d ago
Partially, because if you were to apply critical thinking and logic to 95% of manwas, their plots would explode to the Kingdom Come and their chatacters would become either complete monsters, absolute hogwashed morons or both at the same time. Yes, especially more popular and audience-acclaimed ones (yes, looking at you, KtV).
•
u/brunhilde9219 1d ago
Omg fr. The fox club storyline is so complex, and the characters are all interesting, especially the girls, only for it to be reduced to a romance story once again. Itâs always, âI hope Huiseung and this girl donât end up together,â or âI hope this girl and this guy get back together.â And donât even get me started on how they talk about Ilmi. I donât like her either, but oh my god, theyâll boil down the reasons for all her crashouts to nothing more than bratty tantrums.
•
u/arcanum_lore 19h ago
The comment section of Unlovable Replacment genuinely feels like enemy territory at this point. I mean it's also on me for still continuing to read it but it's like watching car crash. The only takeaway from the comments I read, is that I now understand how some ppl delusionally continue to stay with their trashy partners and justify their bs.
•
u/NeonFraction 1d ago
Because what people make as a low effort comment on something they do for fun does not reflect their capacity for media literacy.
Itâs like getting together with a group of friends to watch a dumb horror movie and going âomg sheâs so annoying I hope she diesâ or âkiss alreaaaaady!â
Itâs about fun and vibes. You are taking webtoon comments way too seriously. Are there dumb people? Sure. Are most of them dumb? No.
If you want longer form content or serious fandom discourse go somewhere else. Until then? Read the room.
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
well like Professor Oak says: there is a time and place for everything, not every story should receive ''le epic meme'' joke comments
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
Sure but on Webtoons doesn't every amount of engagement, whether likes, comments, superlikes, etc, ultimately help the creator? If you don't like someone's comment, ignore it and move on. Or downvote it. No one asked you to be the quality control committee.
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
not everything can be boiled down to engament being good, a lot of people want to interact with the fandom to see what they thought about the most recent chapter of a story
It gets really annoying that all we see is low effort comments or joke comments even when the subject is not a joke
•
u/_TeNtAsTiC_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think webtoon commenters should read the room. Again, I'm saying this is fine because webtoons are first and foremost fun, but do you really think it's alright to act dumb for fun when the author wants to convey something deep or meaningful? I personally think it's disrespectful to miss the point or even pretend to do so for fun. I can read the room, if it's a silly webtoon I don't have any issues with the comments, but if it's a webtoon that's meant to represent and allude to real life issues, I find it disrespectful to be honest, if it's as you said, "just for fun" and not them genuinely not trying to udnerstand the story.
Also, I'm not looking for deep discussions under webtoon comments, I'm also not looking for people who don't even seem to appreciate the story
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
Ok, so what is the solution you want to see? Do you want Webtoons to come up with some kind of "content quality" score to determine if someone's comment can be posted? Do you want a minimum word count? Do you want the creator to have to read and approve every comment to determine if they are interacting with it in a way that they think is worthy? There's already a downvote button. So what is your proposed solution?
•
u/NeonFraction 1d ago
Being the comment police leads to no comments being made if every comment needs to be high effort.
Assuming everyone around you is stupid because theyâre not acting the way you want them to is absolutely a You problem.
Thereâs a phrase for this: âDonât like? Donât read.â
•
u/Solarynny 1d ago
The matter isn't about just one or two comments that are clearly just making a fun observation though.
What the OOP is discussing is the appearance of SEVERAL comments that occupy the top spots by not matching the tone of the chapter at all.
It would be absolutely fine to see them in something lighthearted, or if it was a particularly fun joke, but... There's a lot of them to be found in titles that want to tackle something deeper than just shipping and romance.
Again, it's fine if it's something to have fun in a chapter that has lower stakes, and I myself have commented things that are just surface level thoughts. But it remind me a lot of the time when, for example, when a couple of years back all comments in a title that had a gay character in it were referring to their sexuality, like "the power of gay" or something like that. And it weren't just three, or five, or seven... It was ALL the comment section talked about.
It doesn't even have to be a deep discussion, just... What purpose do the comments even serve if you're not actually acknowledging what has happened in the current chapter?
•
u/Hour-Tower-5106 22h ago
You have to remember that probably the majority of people commenting are going to be teenagers or even younger.Â
You cannot expect emotional maturity, reading the room, or in depth analyses from them.Â
You have to acknowledge that many kids converse with memes and jokes, even in inappropriate scenarios. They often lack empathy because they lack life experience.Â
You can't change this. What you can do, as the mature adult in the equation, is scroll past the content that you find inappropriate and annoying and try to remember to give people grace for being young and immature (like we all once were).Â
•
u/Solarynny 21h ago
No, I totally get that, to the point that one comment pointed this discrepancy between different webtoon publics.
Of course we know we can't change it, and I obviously wouldn't want comments to be censored or deleted by webtoon staff.
The problem is that, in the same way people are allowed to comment whatever they want, we can also feel and express frustration over a lack of actual meaningful discussion on chapters.
I don't mean this in the sense of "you can only comment deep insights about the chapter", but... It gets to a point where is upsetting seeing comments only focused on shipping when, for example, you are reading something with an intended audience of older folks, like thrillers or psychological drama.
That doesn't mean I'll be frothing at the mouth when it's obvious that the one commenting is younger, and I won't condone anyone that actually takes upon themselves to offend someone in any way over a silly/fun comment. But I think it's also fair for adults to be allowed to feel frustration over it â especially when reading media that tackles heavy subjects that require a certain nuanced take.
It's about the difference between seeing a silly comment in, idk, Cursed Princess Club and seeing the majority of comments that misses the point entirely in Like Mother Like Daughter (which thankfully doesn't really happen, afaik)
•
u/Hour-Tower-5106 20h ago
I do 100% get where you're coming from in your frustration.
But, unfortunately, I think that trying to look for serious, in depth discussion in the comment section of webtoons is like trying to find nuanced, in depth conversations on twitter or youtube.
They're just, frankly, not the appropriate forums for that kind of discussion.
I actually (for my own sanity) don't engage with fandoms that skew younger *anywhere* (including reddit). I mostly end up having those discussions with people I know in real life.
I presume most people commenting about ships on serious media are also teenagers, so they would get lumped in with the other types of comments in my mind.
Ultimately, you can't change the level of discussion by complaining about it. All you can do is disengage. No point trying to squeeze water from a stone, you know?
•
u/Solarynny 18h ago
That's quite fair, tbh!
I just think it's kinda sad that not only these types of discussions not only are being pushed out of social platforms in general, but also younger audiences have to share these types of spaces with older ones because society is ALSO pushing them out of social platforms.
In the end, no one ends up having a safe space for themselves: adults have to walk on eggshells on what is supposed to be a comforting hobby in order to be the responsible ones all the time, and teenagers and kids can't be anywhere without being, by all accounts, being told they aren't welcome in fandom spaces.
The joy of online spaces should be to find people with the same interests as you quicker, especially if someone doesn't have people around them who share the same interests â like, even someone DOES have friends who like webtoons, they might like other genre, or not read the same titles you have, etc.
I know debating this isn't really constructive in any way, but sometimes it is nice just to vent and see people have the same grievances as you do :')
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
Ok, so what is the solution you want to see? Do you want Webtoons to come up with some kind of "content quality" score to determine if someone's comment can be posted? Do you want a minimum word count? Do you want the creator to have to read and approve every comment to determine if they are interacting with it in a way that they think is worthy? There's already a downvote button. So what is your proposed solution?
•
u/Solarynny 1d ago
There really isn't any...?
In the end, everyone is aware that anyone can comment.
The objective never was to be some sort of content police, but to discuss this thing that has been happening and express our frustration with it. It is by no means a call for censorship, and that was never the merit of this discussion. There isn't a "solution" for this type of thing because it is simply the nature of comments, and something that will always happen.
Webtoon COULD do with allowing more characters by comment, however, that's for sure. It would certainly help to not having to break a comment into five different parts when the webtoon does warrant a more in-depth discussion.
•
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
Thank you! What I see more than anything lately is people hurling insults about "media literacy" and "surface level takes" in response to people who have different opinions than them. Which is unbelievably rude and annoying. Like what are you, a PhD candidate in Webtoons content?
These aren't Pulitzer Prize-nominated novels being discussed amongst the board of trustees. You're complaining about webcomic comments on Reddit. I can't stand this /r/iamverysmart attitude.
It reminds me a lot of people complaining about "booktok" or whatever. Just be glad people are reading and get off your high horse, Jesus Christ.
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
I don't think that just because a webtoon is not a ''pulitzer winner'' means that it should not get respect from audiences
Your take of ''don't think, just consume product'' doesn't help anyone either
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
I'm saying that it's not up to you whether or not someone's opinion is worth having or hearing. It's a public forum. Start your own forum, subreddit, comic site, whatever if you want to gatekeep the people who are allowed to comment, upvote, or interact with a piece of art in a way that you personally approve of. But complaining that people on a public site aren't leaving opinions that you think are worth having isn't productive.
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
nobody is trying to be the comment police, which is ironic because you saying that we should create our own personal spaces to only allow the comments that we want sounds more like you want to be the comment police here also gatekeeping different opinions
very ironic
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
?????? You said there is a time and place for every comment / meme. This very post is complaining about the quality of comments that are seen on Webtoons and Reddit. I don't understand how you're accusing me of policing comments? That's literally what this entire post is about, complaining about the quality of public facing comments? Like ?????? Jesus Christ maybe I am illiterate, this conversation makes me want to bash my fucking head in.
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
Ok if you are going to get this mad about an opinion, maybe the issue is not the opinion
•
u/Raijinili 1d ago
I don't think they're being mad "about an opinion". I think it's more about the way you're representing theirs.
- "don't think, just consume product": Rather than "don't think", their point is to stop insulting others (e.g. saying that they "don't think") for just posting the kind of comments that OP complained about.
- "comment police": They said that it's not productive to complain about them. It won't get the desired result of a smarter comment section. (This can also get into the "paradox of intolerance".)
Your focus is on what would be a better comments section, to appreciate the story together, and their focus is on the people being free to make those comments without being judged. It doesn't have to be this antagonistic.
Anyway, it's WEBTOON's fault. The shape of the system determines what gets churned out, and the system they designed doesn't encourage thoughtful comments.
•
u/GalacticalDonuts 1d ago
the thing is that this user says it more along the lines of ''don't complain about other comments, create your own sub if you want to continue your gate keeping attitude'' which to me sounds like a ''comment police'' of sorts
And I also agree about how the comments work in webtoons, it feels like people are just looking to get as may likes as possible which is going to create low quality posts
•
u/Raijinili 1d ago
the thing is that this user says it more along the lines of ''don't complain about other comments, create your own sub if you want to continue your gate keeping attitude'' which to me sounds like a ''comment police'' of sorts
This is exactly an argument about the paradox of tolerance.
The difference is that OP is complaining about other people who aren't here (where they can't see), and this commenter is complaining to people who have OP's sentiment (where they can see).
•
u/Solarynny 1d ago
I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea why are you getting so mad over this?? đ I urge you to really read the post again, because the complaint isn't about just "the average webtoon commenter".
The OP themselves states that the problem is how webtoons that DO warrant a more constructive commentary don't have that. And again, about ten comments that poke fun of a light situation is Fine. It's more than acceptable even! Everyone is allowed to have fun.
The problem occurs when you see an OVERWHELMING amount of comments about shipping in a webtoon that has, for example, the psychological tag, or that portrays people dying in a chapter.
This post isn't about searching for a resolution, or policing comments, or applying censorship to what is a platform for everyone to take part in. It's just a personal grievance about a frustration that many of us have felt in wanting to see comments that actually point out what has been happening in the current chapter we enjoy.
It's harrowing to read a long chapter full of new develooments only for the comments to be talking about how people have spent all their coins and now have to wait for more chapters, or how they've been reading this just because of a pairing that appeared in three panels.
And again, like I said... It's completely alright if it happens in a webtoon where romance is the focus. But to see it in something like a thriller, or a drama, and then all that people talk about is who is the better romance option... I don't think is that hard to see how that is upsetting for someone who is hoping to have an actual analysis of what the chapter was about.
It's not about "this comment isn't intelectually stimulating enough for me". It's about "holy shit, there's 30 comments where all they talk about is a pairing that isn't even in this chapter. Isn't there any comment where we can actually discuss the story it is portraying? :(".
•
u/TheHiddenFox 18h ago
I'm angry because I can't stand elitism in hobby subreddits, and that's exactly what this is. I did reread the post. Literally the first paragraph says:
I have always been bothered by the majority of webtoon commenters. Most of them seem to lack absolute media literacy and don't know how to reflect/critically think on what they consume.
That is the exact opposite of what you are claiming, that it's not about "the average webtoon commenter". It's actually worse than that, because they are claiming that it is the majority.
Honestly, writing off the majority of commenters on a free platform as being unable to critically think, based off of comments seen that are typically written within the first few hours of the episode being posted, is insanely judgemental and rude. You have no idea what the readers think about it after leaving the comment. You have a two-second insight into a short comment and have written off the majority of commenters as illiterate and brainless. Do you really not see how elitist that is?
Especially when there are actual ways to find the deep, meaningful discussion that you guys are claiming to look for! Start your own threads here! Start your own dedicated subreddit for it! Join the creator's patreon or discord and discuss it there! Start your own discord for webtoon discussions! If simply ignoring these comments is too difficult for you, great news, you can downvote them!
But as you said, you're not interested in finding a solution or even getting any pushback, clearly. So what is it you actually want to gain from this? You want people to agree that, again, the MAJORITY of commenters are ALL illiterate and lack critical thinking skills, except for you guys? Thank you, O Brilliant Ones, for enlightening us with your Divine Intellect!
And on top of that, I haven't seen a single creator post in this thread agreeing or complaining! Probably because, again, they benefit from ALL engagement with their art, regardless of how worthy you think the engagement is.
•
u/Solarynny 18h ago
As you said, I do actually agree that referring to the majority of commenters as having low media literacy is bad. That was my bad, and I do think it's an insult way too many people throw at others easily.
That said... I also don't think insulting everyone that does want a more tangible discussion in webtoon comics as being elitist is well-deserved.
The situation doesn't have an easy to implement solution because it depends not on the platform, but on the people that comment. Like I said, however, the situation could improve by allowing longer comments to be made, which would actually provide less friction when it comes to making them a little more thoughtful, promoting more debates.
A lot of the pushback referred to in this thread talk about the people agreeing as if we're actively being rude to the people who comment about more lighthearted things, or that we think ourselves better than them, but... All that we are pointing out is our frustration over how some comments have a certain time and place when they would be better suited for the situation.
I hope you can also understand how it is frustrating when you want to see comments engaging in the actual content being shown only to be met with a majority of commenters simply talking about something that doesn't add to the discussion at all.
Like you said, we can always make threads here about a media, or start communities of our own... But there is a comment section on webtoons for a reason, where it SHOULD already be a place for discussion of its own, without having to hunt for members or engagement by ourselves, containing it exactly to what pieces of the story have been avaiable thus far in a title.
I'm aware that complaining here about this fact isn't productive or anything, but... The intent of the post was never to seek a sure resolution, but just to discuss the matter overall. I personally think that, while the suggestions you have made are possible options, telling people that "if you don't like it you don't have to read it" is not really addressing the overall problem.
Maybe they could, like I said, just allow for longer comments. Maybe they could implement a sort of forum mechanic (instead of the god awful shorts that no one asked for). But in the meantime, it's fair to just vent our frustrations a little bit (though I do agree calling people illiterate isn't really nice).
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1h ago
The thing is, I'm not saying it's elitist to be dissatisfied with the way webtoons upvotes system rewards the comments that appear first rather than genuine discussion, or that it's elitist to want it to be easier to find places for these discussions. But there are two conversations going on in this post: 1.) Dissatisfaction with comment sections on webtoons, and 2.) the conclusion that it's because of a "media literacy epidemic".
I have no problem with the discussion of point 1. It's point 2 I take extreme issue with, it's point 2 that is upsetting me here. The TITLE of this post is "Media literacy epidemic on webtoon". That's why I'm so confused that you keep saying that's not what people are saying here. That is literally the subject of the post, media illiteracy. I'm not even extrapolating here, those are the OP's literal words. And I don't think I am being "media illiterate" by reading words saying "I think comments are low effort because most people are media illiterate and have zero critical thinking skills" and having my takeaway be that OP is saying that most commenters are stupid except for them. That's their literal words!!! Am I honestly supposed to assume that they didn't actually mean those words and instead meant some hidden other thing? That I myself am missing because I am media illiterate?
Again, if wanting better spaces for in-depth discussion was the only thing being talked about here, I'd have no problem. But I don't understand how I'm the bad guy for saying it's asshole behavior to call a bunch of people stupid, illiterate, and lacking critical thinking skills based off of a comment they wrote in under a minute on an episode of a webtoon right after they got the notification. It IS asshole behavior.
THAT'S the problem for me. THAT'S what makes this an unproductive, negative, and honestly miserable discussion.
•
u/FL_Advocacy1 1d ago
I like reading comments bc it fills me in on plot lines I might be missing. I donât get too deep in my own comments, so I donât necessarily see it as a problem.
•
u/Exciting-Mall192 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Sparks in Your Eyes is suffering from those type of readers. Unfortunately, many of them are not very bright, I just sigh big time each time I read the comments. All those contexts and nuances the author had beautifully put into the narrative just flew over their heads.
•
•
u/DannyMA25 1d ago
I honestly hate it when people who comment on these complain so much about some stuff.. Basically what you said. They don't wait until they can see why was it like that. And maybe most of yall know those status windows, some people like them, some don't, and some just accept them. Well, those who don't, make sure you know everytime they read. And that thing basically helps the main character growth, it's not even a rude ass window.
It's just frustrating seeing how maybe half of the comments section... But yeah.. Well, I need we didn't know everything from the beginning, but please have some patience. Or am I dramatic đ yall just call me out if so. I'll accept it đ
•
•
u/Angelthemultigeek 1d ago
The main reason for these problems are people either donât have good reading comprehension skills or they are starting to loose them because they use talk to text and AI to cover those mental tasks. Mostly teenagers and young adults.
As someone who has been reading since 3 itâs hard for me to grasp but Iâve seen a kid read one page and fail to answer basic questions about that page. And he was so flippant about it like it didnât matter than he couldnât understand something that was right there in his face.
•
u/Logmaticer 23h ago
I saw comments on the episode of The Knight Only Lives Today where !Mitch returns from the water! and they're like !omg he said how unfortunate when he finds out MCs arm is broken so he deserves to die. But he's not saying how unfortunate for MC. He's saying how unfortunate he can't fight him at his full strength. I had to double check the page where he said it and all the commenters were just wrong.!
•
u/Logmaticer 23h ago
I saw comments on the episode of The Knight Only Lives Today where Mitch returns from the water and they're like omg he said how unfortunate for MC when he finds out MCs arm is broken so he deserves to die. But he's not saying how unfortunate for MC. He's saying how unfortunate he can't fight him at his full strength. I had to double check the page where he said it and all the commenters were just wrong. It was a small thing but it's irritating nonetheless.
•
u/lostlight_94 18h ago
These are teenagers who were not taught critical thinking skills by school or their parents. I wouldn't put much weight on their opinions. WB readers are mainly kids. They don't care about actual adults.Â
•
u/SweatyDark6652 18h ago
I can understand your frustration, but the only solution, as a single reader wanting good discussion, is to just ignore the "dumb" comments and focus on the "intelligent" ones.
•
•
u/TheHiddenFox 1d ago
Genuinely, what is the solution you guys want here? Do you want Webtoons to enable some kind of "content quality" score in order for a comment to be posted? Do you think they should have a minimum word count? Do you think creators should have to approve comments in order for them to be posted? They already have a downvote button. Do you have a proposed solution?
•
u/PUNCH-WAS-SERVED 1d ago
I mean... You say that when so many popular stories basically glorify SA (as long as the male lead is attractive). How many of them glorify actual gaslighting/manipulation techniques (as long as the male lead is attractive)?
I see so many comments coming from (mostly) female readers who say, "Ah, he is so sus, but hot."
Yeah, let a guy take advantage of you (if he is attractive). Great messaging, folks.
•
u/Solarynny 1d ago
Man, what you said about The Fox Club is SO true. There has been SOOO many comments saying that they're only reading it because of Minu and Onyu, and that's just... Such a shallow take in the story imo (and borders on disrespectful too, tbh).
The whole point of Fox Club is the relationship between the girls and has ALWAYS been that way. Romance never was the focus of the story, and yet so many people seem to want to ignore the drama when it is MEANT to be a drama.
Like, I don't blame people for wanting a comforting ship, but... There's already so many webtoons with that premise. From what the commenters claim, they just wand another Odd Girl Out, and the main criticism to that manhwa is how weak the plot has gotten ever since they began focusing on romance more than the friendship between the four initial girls.
•
u/Busy-Doughnut6180 1d ago
It's an epidemic everywhere. The only reason why I started using reddit years ago was to have somewhere to discuss media with other people wanting to do the same. It was pretty peaceful. Nowadays I rarely bother because I'll end up with idiots in my notifications arguing with me over something I didn't even say because they can't read or understand nuance. It's exhausting.Â
•
u/Dull-Dress-2793 1d ago edited 1d ago
Unfortunately I feel like they are mostly teens to young adults who lack reading comprehension in general. Its actually something many teachers complain about. Unfortunately GenZ and beyond have become the dumbest generation in modern times (when records show every generation usually becomes smarter over time). We are literally seeing a decline in competence. I hope all of you Genz don't become offended as I know there is always an exception to the whole...but its what the majority is showing.
•
u/Raijinili 1d ago
Do you mean Gen Z? Gen X is like 45-60 years old.
You haven't given enough details for me to look up the stats (I'm not finding anything about a strong decline before COVID-19), but a lot of the claims of significant decline are probably from scientific illiteracy. They don't consider whether standards changed, or whether we're measuring something less relevant, or whether the REASONS people get to a certain point of education (e.g. college) have changed.
The closest I can find is this: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking/reading-crisis-perspective . It's a pretty thorough article thinking about the various ways we can measure "reading crisis", and how much it really matters.
On Reddit: "Is it true that literary proficiency rates are declining worldwide, or are some countries affected more than others? If so, what are some of the causes? ". There's not many comments, but it links two sources about worldwide literacy increasing, and points to "critical literacy" as a specific kind of literacy to look at.
If you think about it, literacy is naturally way more important now than in the 1990s. In the 90s, you had to talk to people, usually in person. Now, if you can't read or write, it will be harder to talk to people not next to you, or use a smartphone or the Internet. Today's average brain may have more space devoted to text-parsing than in the 90s.
Also, as the Internet became more important, and English being a dominant language on the Internet, there will be more people visible on the English Internet who didn't grow up with English. I wonder if other-language WEBTOONs see different levels of critical literacy. I doubt people are learning Indonesian or French to read webtoons in those languages.
•
u/Dull-Dress-2793 1d ago
Yeah I meant Gen Z. Apologies. I didnt mean literacy was in decline, obviously with the Internet being very accessible, literacy rates are probably the most its ever been. What I meant was about "reading comprehension". (And maybe lack of larger vocabulary). It was trending online for some time. Teens telling other teens to read basic story structure and not understanding. Teachers from so many places exposing how reading levels are not what they should be for their certain age groups. I was also listening to a video about novel creation but the creator cited that even literacy levels in students in Harvard University are not what they used to be. I would definitely need to find the citation for this but its something I noticed as well in my Daughter's friends and classmates as well as online.
•
u/Thick-Philosophy-658 1d ago
If you mean Gen Z, you're probably thinking of the wrong age group. You do realize the majority of us are over 18?
•
u/Dull-Dress-2793 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah I meant Gen Z. (I also added and beyond.) I have a daughter on the edge of GenZ and gen alpha and she is 14. That's why I started with Gen Z.
•
u/Makimamoochie 1h ago
It's happening all across the board. Wish fulfillment is so common in manhwas that readers enter stories preconditioned to think of the FL and ML as infallible because they don't actually see them as characters but self inserts to project themselves onto in a similar way that Twilight wanted it's readers to insert themselves in the position of Bella. I think there is nothing wrong with these types of stories existing, but they 100% bottom of the barrel media. But, even if you read nothing but these all the time, I still feel like you would become familiar with the tropes well enough to full predict most stories and eventually grow tired or crave something more
•
u/Ok_Emu2515 1d ago
well, since the pandemic, there has been a large influx of manhwa/webtoon readers who do not come from anime/manga/manhwa culture.
for example, r/manhwa had a lot of newcomers during the pandemic, many of whom were tiktok users. this became an issue later because many of them only enjoyed shounen genres and were unwelcoming to other genres.