A Federal Europe?

[u/Esteban83550]

Do you like the idea of a federal Europe? having some areas of sovereignty like the Army, a substantial budget, an elected president and government and many more

765 votes, 16d ago

373 Yes Absolutely

139 Yes partially

68 Not sure

44 No partially

141 Absolutely against

[u/Eternal_Superyid]

Absolutely not. As a citizen of a member of the EU, i hope it burns and crashes.
A military alliance i can allow, but the power that Brussels holds over my country, without my vote, is undemocratic and not acceptable.

[u/Reality-Straight → u/Eternal_Superyid]

you do have a vote what are you talking about

[u/Esteban83550 → u/Eternal_Superyid]

you elect the parliament that elects the president of the commission so it's democratic even though I would prefer electing the president of the commission by universal suffrage

[u/FabianButHere → u/Esteban83550]

You elect a guy who elects... I know that from a big place in the West, and we know how they're doing.

In Germany, we're currently have a chancellor with less than 20% approvement rates in the general public. But we don't vote the chancellor. The majority in parliament does. And they'd lose their power if they actually forced him to step down, so they won't do that.

Now imagine that, but for a power hungry person now ruling over the entire EU.

Please stop normalising so extremely indirect democracy. It just opens more doors for bribes and lobbyism.

[u/Alblaka → u/FabianButHere]

Would you support EU federalization if it were to include a reform into an as-Direct-as-pragmatically-feasible Democracy? Even Germany is slowly (VERY slowly) getting it's digital shit together, so using digitalization to further direct democracies concepts is slowly coming into sight.

[u/FabianButHere → u/Alblaka]

No, because a state that big cannot pass legislation that reasonably makes sense for all of its 450 million citizens. Too many value, culture and everyday life differences.

The EUs countries are not close enough for a federation. E.g. Bulgaria isn't even close enough for being in the EU at all in my opinion, but hey.

[u/Reality-Straight → u/FabianButHere]

thats kinda why its a federal state, you know, with admisntrative layers

[u/FabianButHere → u/Reality-Straight]

But why make a federation out of it instead of keeping independent if they're this different?? There's no advantage.

[u/Reality-Straight → u/FabianButHere]

united foreign policy lets us actually act on the global state without being pushed around by the superpowers, a united finacial market lets us invest i to our own companies better helping our economy greatly, a united armed forces helps us safe cost while at the same time being more effective and a united border policy shares the vurden of the external border among all members allowing us to defend it better.

A united police force helps us prosecute criminals across internal borders and broad united traffic rules and a proper economy ministry helps us standardize procedures and make cross eu investment more profitable, appealing and fair.

[u/FabianButHere → u/Reality-Straight]

Actually no, I don't want more police. I don't see why people want a more authoritarian state. It's fine as it is, if not even too authoritarian already.

The army point just doesn't make sense, Germany is full of warmongering politicians and shoving all its money to Israel and Ukraine, Hungary is pro-russia, France actively supports Palestine's sovereignty while many other EU nations don't. We fight different wars, we have different issues.

Our market is already united. Thanks EU, you made monopolies stronger instead of punishing them like you were supposed to. But my local businesses neither wants nor needs an EU-wide market. Only huge, morally despicable companies do. And yes, we may all use the Euro, but that doesn't mean we have the same economic conditions.

Taxes differ vastly by country, because society and society's needs differ. And that's good. Because it's like the people in that area need it. A huge government apparatus would just be even more wasteful with taxes, most of them probably going to buerocracy.

The buying power, work culture, and average pay heavily differs. Because that's how those countries live. The societies are split in some areas, and that's a fact. But that doesn't cause issues, and so it doesn't need to be fixed.

[u/Reality-Straight → u/FabianButHere]

Its not more police, its police that can act across mational borders to arrest people committing crimes. Something the eu currently struggles with.

Germany is the furthest from a warmonger, and supporting Ukraine is supporting free democracy in europe and defending a nation that has been attacked by an imperialist authoritarian state. You as a anarchist should support thier protection no?

Europe doesn't agree on all matters of foreign policy, this makes us devided and unable to act on any of them. It should be a majority vote on who and what we act upon, just like it is in most nations nowadays.

Our goods market is united, not our financial market and thats important for big AND small buisnesses.

And the eu has fought plenty of monopolies over the years, foreign and domestic. And your small local shop absolutely cares about the united market if they realize or not, unless your a fan if giving the various nation states extra taxes in the form of tarrifs for almost every product you buy.

Who said anything about the same economic conditions? Again, federation..

Same with taxes, why would the eu interfere with local taxes? States in federations usually levy thier own taxes separate of.the federal government. Which in the case of the eu would get the money it needs to operate from the states not directly through taxation.

Work culture, pay and buying power diffres heavily between villages and cities as well, yet there are few issues, why would there be otherwise?