Let me paint a simple picture. I’m out in the bar/club dancing with friends and whatnot. Then I spotted to the right of me two girls that seemed to be friends and two guys that seemed to be friends, flirting and talking to one another.

But the problem was that one of the girls kept looking at me and brushing my hand, and when I looked up to see who done it she’d already be looking at me. I kind of gestured to her and the guy she was talking to like an “are ye together” type of gesture and she nodded no.

Now the problem wasn’t me going and talking to her, the problem was I couldn’t bring myself to do it cause I felt pity towards the guy like the guy’s friend was doing fine with the other girl and it would be shame if he wasn’t the same.

I did see all 4 of them leave together but now I’m pondering on a what if. Is there ethics in all of this or is it a dog-eat-dog world?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

So your life is "fine and dandy" and you are "good on paper" yet you cannot get any pussy? Why is that?

Well what if your life wasn't as fine as society and friends told you (as they didn't want to hurt your precious feelings). What if that was the real case?

I mean, how do you know your life is "fine and dandy", what metric do you use?

Did I hit my gym PRs?

Is my paycheck coming through?

Did my team win the match?

Am I staying out of trouble?

I mean if the answer to all of these is yes, then surely you must be a "real catch" right? Women must be gagging for some of your meat?

In that vacuum, you can be an anxious mess, completely out of touch with your emotions, running on toxic childhood scripts, and acting completely ungrounded. As long as your bills are paid and your friends aren't actively calling you out, you will assume you are perfectly fine. The internal machinery can be completely fucked up, but because the external feedback is all good, you see no issues.

Unless you are a real mess, unable to get a job, unable to get friends what so ever.... women are the only real way to see if you are broken or whole.

Women act as an immediate, emotional mirror that men simply don't have anywhere else in their lives. Sure your mommy and daddy will give you a pat on your head and say you are "fine the way you are", but that does not cut it in this day and age. No longer can you use your money to basically buy a woman and enslave her in your house with promise of a roof over her head.

The Subconscious Signal Receiver: A guy might think he’s acting completely "cool and confident," or "Alpha as fuck" but a woman will pick up on the micro-tensions, the subtle outcome-dependency, the forced jokes, or the performative edge in three seconds. When she hit him with "Something is missing" or "You're acting a bit creepy", it’s like hitting a brick wall.

The Breaking of the Script: In male spaces or corporate/church environments, people politely play along with performative behavior to keep the peace. Women in dating environments have zero incentive to play along with a guy's script. If the vibe is off, they simply disengage or walk away. They will just fob you off, as you bring nothing to the table. Even if they just want cock, a dildo might serve better in some cases.

Female rejection is effectively the universe's forced software update for men who would otherwise happily run on outdated, broken operating systems forever.

I am 26 freaking years old and STILL single. I am getting to the age now where being alone is seriously beginning to take a toll on my psyche. Every day I open up social media and am bombarded by friends of mine announcing yet another fucking engagement. The same old perfectly choreographed proposal and facial expressions. I swear it’s like every fucking day at this point. While I’m obviously happy for them, there’s a level of bitterness that builds since I go through every year, every holiday alone, forced to watch everyone else experience love and affection.

It’s not like I’m not trying either. I’ve started putting myself out there more. As a matter of fact I just had a first date yesterday, but the girl has essentially friendzoned me now that we’ve met in person. I know you’re not supposed to take rejection personally, and that you’re supposed to get used to experiencing it multiple times but man, I’ve been rejected and friendzoned so many times at this point it’s starting to hurt. I’m beginning to lose hope to be honest.

I’m beginning to wonder if it’s just my looks at this point. I’m told I’m a funny guy. I’m told I’m cool and can make friends with guys smoothly. But with women it’s a completely different story. I have an asymmetrical face. I am skinny. I have an underbite that’s noticeable when I smile, and have extremely dry wrinkled skin due to eczema. In the year 2026, when women have an excess of average men at their disposal at all times, I’m simply not up to par with modern dating standards, and I just don’t think anything I can physically do can change that, since all of my issues with my appearance are due to genetic factors. I’ve looked into surgical procedures to mitigate these shortcomings, but they all would cost tens of thousands of dollars and multiple years of my life to successfully complete. In the case of my underbite, it’d take at least 2 years to fix.

I’m posting here because I need someone to give me honest feedback, preferably via DMs, on what is wrong with me. Am I too skinny for my age? Is the underbite holding me back? How can I looksmax? I need to know what I’m doing wrong here and what needs to change, bc clearly something does. I’m tired of being alone. I’m tired of watching my youth slip away from me year after year.

Sooo this is a doozie

How do i put this, lately ive been stepping up my game, flirting with a lot of women and making my intent obvious. A lot of these I get to know while partying or other activities and I get into their friend group. However sometimes when I try to make moves on them, even if they like me or reciprocate the whole group seems to scorn me. Like her 5 male orbiters and cabalah of women friends will brainwash her into thinking im not a good deal, and this has happened already twice. I had become good friends with them and its just a bit sad losing friendships just because of that, and it makes me much more sad compared to just getting rejected by a girl. The second time it was weirder, we were on a birthday, having fun, all of us very drunk. Then I got some alone time after everyone went home, we didnt make out or anything but we exchanged numbers and it was pretty obvious she wanted to see me again. The next day all her friends were looking at me very judgamentaly and it was obvious there was a change of mood. Like they see me as a threat now or something.

Im nothing close to a player, Ive had my flings and a short relationship, and after a dry spell I decided to go full ham mode with women and it seems like some people, specially their male friends take it very badly. To me it seems like they thought they had a chance with them just because they are friends, but i never saw them flirting or making any kind of moves so I tought it was open game.

Any tips for this, or do I just have to cope with the fact?

I’m 31M and I’ve noticed a pretty frustrating pattern with dating over the last year or so.

I don’t really struggle to get dates, and quite a few of them go well on paper. I’ve had plenty of first-date kisses or even gone all the way on occasion.

The weird thing is, when I’m not that interested in someone, they often seem keen to meet again. But when I meet someone I’m genuinely excited about, it feels like they’re much more likely to lose interest.

Two recent examples:

One girl and I had a really great first date, we played pool, darts and went for a few drinks. Then we had a second date a week later where we kissed and she said she wanted to see me again. She messaged afterwards saying she’d had a lovely time, but then became more distant and eventually said she didn’t think she could commit to anything because she was going away for a few months.

A fact she'd made clear in messages when we first started talking so it's not like this was suddenly a new issue.

More recently, I had a first date with someone else that went well. We were trying to arrange another date but before that happened we randomly ended up bumping into each other at a speed-dating event we’d both already booked. We ended up staying out together for another hour after everyone left, had a laugh and a few good kisses, and she messaged the next morning joking that it had been a “bonus date”.

A few days later I asked if we were still meeting and she said she felt like we got on but that “something was missing”.

I’m not saying either of them did anything wrong or owed me another date. I’m more wondering if this is just normal girl behaviour or if it's likely I'm doing something wrong without realising it?

I probably do get a bit more nervous and maybe try harder to be funny or interesting. With women I’m less bothered about, I’m much more relaxed because I’m not really thinking about the outcome.

Has anyone else had this pattern?

I didn't want to ramble on too long so if you want me to go into more details about anything just let me know!

I’m looking for one (maybe two) solid guys in LA to go out with and practice approaching.

Only message me if you actually fit this:

• You work on yourself
• You’re not afraid of rejection
• You understand social dynamics
• You don’t care what random people think
• You have real standards and principles

My rules if we go out together:

• We take turns opening our own sets
• Each man has the choice of who he wants
• Never hit on the girl the other is talking to
• Open communication at all times
• We give each other solid criticism, even if it’s hard , but based on actual facts, not ego
• We’re not here to say yes to any woman just to get laid

I’m open to both day game and night game (coffee shops, farmer’s markets, chill busy events, etc.).

Important:

We’re not going out to get drunk.

Maximum one drink (or no alcohol).

The mission is to practice game, open sets, and improve, not to party.

I believe success comes from abundance, standards, and not giving a fuck what women say or think. Discipline > desperation.

If you’re the type who just wants to get laid by any means and has no frame, don’t message me.

If you’re serious, disciplined, and actually working on your game the right way, send me a message and tell me a bit about yourself and where you’re at.

Looking for quality, not quantity.

This isn’t a post to brag. I honestly need help.

I’ve been using dating apps for a couple of years by now. I just moved to a new city where I’ve been scheduling 3 dates every week, and this entire time I’ve been on dating apps, it’s kinda rare I’ve had a week without a date or some meetup planned.

I think I may have dated too much. Every date is a repeat from the next, and I’m using the same formula, jokes, and flirts for everything single date—it just feels robotic. I’ve always wanted to settle down and marry someone, but now it feels impossible to make a connection. Each woman I meet seems easily replaceable and doesn’t provide me with something I can’t provide themselves—in fact, I’ve realized most seem take. This isn’t a proven fact at all, I’m just sharing how my biases have been twisted and my relationships have turned purely transactional for me.

Right now, I’ve been taking dating a bit more slow, going on dates with one single person to establish a connection. But in the back of my mind, all the negative thoughts and apathy that were driven into me from my dating experiences are still there.

If we’re speaking strictly seduction, there’s no fun in flirting or using different methods to talk to someone. It all just seems the same now. Same goes for sex. Thought I was really into it, now I don’t care for it and seems like a chore.

Does anyone know how to get rid of this problem? Again, I’m not trying to boast or give tips. I’m seeking help.

You see the girl. You have all these thoughts like I have no idea what to say. They could be rude to me. I could get humiliated.

You don't want the people around you to see you approach. You feel nervous. You feel like that girl won't be interested in you.

You make yourself do it anyway. Generally within seconds. If you wait any longer than a few seconds, then usually the approach isn't getting done. So you throw yourself in there and your brain comes up with something to say. And you just do that over and over. You get into a flow state after back to back interactions, and then those thoughts disappear for a while.

At some point something might throw you off like a harsh rejection or the girl's friend that you didn't meet yet comes in with a different vibe, and it affects you. And now some of those thoughts can come 6 you have to remember to keep doing what you were doing. Keep approaching.

Later you evaluate what you did well and what you can improve and focus on making those improvements next time.

You become more resilient over time and are emotionally unaffected. And you know what to do and say and how to carry yourself in these interactions due to throwing yourself in so many times.

Is this how you learn to talk to girls.

I've watched so many videos from youtube and paid products and I understand the theory but when I go out and see a girl or a group of girls I'm still like I don't know what to say.

A part of me almost knows this is how it's done, but I'd be curious if there's any more too it. Will our brain learn what to say and how to respond just by putting ourselves in those situations a lot and analyzing what we did right and what we did wrong.

I tried the famous NYC for day game and I was not impressed. NYC is mythical as the birthplace of day game and I know it was praised as one of the best places to game in the early 2000's. Keep in mind, I was only there for a few days and tried union square as well, however I might owe this city a few more days to make a reasonable conclusion. I am still not impressed with what I saw, and not sure its just a generational thing and change of the times.

Most of the times when I approach women in other cities, they at least acknowledge you to let you speak a few words, in NYC a majority of the time, they don't even acknowledge you're existence and just walk right past you when you approach or ignore you straight up. 90 percent of my interactions in NYC were like this, women in a rush and have no desire to speak to you at all.

NYC has volume which is noticeably good , however that volume feels like it doesn't mean much when most of the women are ignoring you're approaches.

Preferably you want a city with high volume women + high chance of socially open women. What's tough about the USA, is that most of the cities are spread out with suburban sprawl. A city like LA might have a more laid back social vibe, but the city is extremely spread out, and in NYC the city is nice and dense but the people seem closed off.

Is there a better city out there, or do you think I deserve to give NYC another shot?

I deleted dating apps a couple months ago after having a suspicion that they were doing more bad than good for me. I actually went on a good number of dates from them and got laid several times, but the ghosting, flaking, not matching with many girls, getting unmatched, having bad dates, being treated like a second-option, etc etc. just was not something that seemed good for me. Here's my assessment of the pros/cons, let me know if you have any thoughts.

Pros of not having dating apps:

1. Feel better about myself physically. I've also started being more expressive and creative with my style, since I know that I need to draw more in-person attention. I think I look better than I've ever looked right now, I still don't think "damn I'm so handsome", but I think my overall body dysmorphia has decreased, maybe just due to better styling choices, but I'm sure also due to not having to open my phone everyday to see I'm being rejected by almost every hot girl I swiped on lol.
2. Realized that the apps were actually sapping a ton of my energy/vigor in life and so I've accomplished a lot in these couple months and worked harder than before at my goals.
3. More on the lookout for women to talk to in-person, more inner drive to go out to events where I can meet women like 5 times per week.
4. Girls you meet in person will generally value you much more than a girl you meet from an app , so you can potentially have an advantage over some guy she meets on an app because everyone wants a cool story of how they met that is not "on an app".
5. When I had dating apps I would compare the girls I see in person to these hypothetical dates that I could get from the apps and so I would actually delude myself into thinking "why would I talk to her? I'm clearly boutta match with some way hotter girl on the apps" lol yes I know it was delusional...

Cons of not having dating apps:

1. Feels like I'm missing out on this easy low-effort way to meet women. Part of me does feel kinda salty/jealous thinking that some other guys can just open an app and get laid, but ah well. I guess I just have to remember that this was not my experience with the dating apps and redownloading these apps won't fix that.
2. One of the biggest advantages of dating apps is that you see people that are filtered based on age, if they have kids, where they live, relationship goals, etc. and you already know they are single. Out in the real world this is not the case, so I keep running into issues with logistical stuff, like her having a kid, her going through a divorce and not being ready to date again, her already dating someone, her being married, her actually living 3 hours away or being just here on a business trip, etc. etc..
3. You need to put in a lot more effort to meet women, you can't just sit at home doing nothing and expect to meet any women, unless you are famous or something lol. You don't go out into the world and talk to women = you don't get any dates.
4. I'm currently on a dry-spell in this time, but I think that is more because I've rejected a good number of women because their logistical situation was not what I was looking for, and I'm not looking for hookups or casual stuff, so my filter is pretty specific.

All in all, dating apps are a tool that work well for some people and not so well for others. Personally, I really wish they worked well for me because it would make things so much easier, but ah well, it is what it is. What do you guys think of my list? Anything you would add/change?

Hey everyone,

​I’m looking for some outside perspectives on using high-energy, uncontrolled environments (like bars, clubs, or nightlife events) to practice social skills and talking to new people.

​For some context, I’m totally fine in controlled or structured social situations. If I'm at a group event, workshop, or a small friend gathering where everyone is already open to interacting or primed for socializing, I can easily read and control the atmosphere.

​However, my weak spot is dealing with people who are completely new, a bit shy, closed off, or initial complete strangers . When I hit those situations, I tend to fumble hard.

​My question is: Do you think throwing yourself into nightlife environments actually helps build transferable social skills, or is it a waste of time if you struggle with unpredictable dynamics?

​Would love to hear from anyone who has used nightlife or similar settings to push past social awkwardness. Did it actually help you improve, or are there better training grounds for learning how to talk to strangers?

Would love to hear your experiences and any specific techniques you use!

Hey guys,

Just wanted to give an update. I officially got my first win on a dating app. The date went smoothly, and we made out and almost had sex in the back seat. Might see her for a second date to seal the deal.

Spent many months working on my dating apps, looksmaxxing, working on my posing and how I take pics, etc.

Just wanna emphasize, this is not going to be my primary way of getting girls. I’m also working on social circle game and cold approach, but this is a good passive way to meet women for me.

Hey everyone! While I seem to be confident and relaxed while talking about generic stuff, teasing and being humorous, when it comes to clearing things up and having to show my true romantic intentions, I always freeze and don't know how to start it. At least with women I already know (not in cold approaches). Any tips?

In cold approaches though, would you suggest to approach with a clear indication of interest in the first minute to avoid this? If no, how would you escalate/show the intention?

Thanks in advance guys!

looks is 15% of game

Confidence, keeping convo going, leading, having social intelligence, speaking your mind naturally, sexualziing makes her into you.

Soon enough all these attriburtes become engrained and a part of your personality.

And then you'll reach a level where you feel like you didnt do anything but girls keep loving you.

Its because you put in the work intitally now its a habit and normal.

I was doing some personal research and messing with AI specifically to address fear of rejection and cold approaching woman I thought I'd share this with the group because I think it could be useful for others.

Here's a wild example to prove a point:

Imagine a guy who specifically wants a married woman who will let him lick the bottom of her feet only on Thursdays.

Sounds crazy, right? But if he approaches enough women and asks respectfully, eventually he'll find one who doesn't say no. She'll laugh and say, "You're crazy! where are you from? Do you have a girlfriend?" She won't reject him outright.

The point is simple: If there's one "yes" out there, there's a market.

The same applies to approaching women. You're not trying to convince every woman to like you you're looking for the ones who already vibe with you. The ones who don't? They're just not your target audience. That's not a rejection of you it's a filter.

And here's the real secret:
Even a guy with bad game will eventually find a woman who's into him if he approaches enough. It's basic numbers. But what happens when you actually work on yourself? When you improve your vibe, your conversation skills, your confidence? Now you're not just relying on the numbers you're stacking the deck in your favor.

You don't need to be perfect. You just need to be better than the guy who isn't trying at all. A little calibration goes a long way.

Look at the adult film industry there's a whole population of people addicted to octopus tentacle porn. Seriously. If there's a demand for that, there's a demand for almost anything. The same logic applies to dating: there's a woman out there who's into exactly what you bring to the table.

The takeaway:

• Rejection isn't failure it's filtering.
• Keep approaching. Keep putting yourself out there.
• Once you get one "yes," you know your type exists. Now you just scale.
• And if you improve yourself even a little bit, your results multiply fast.

The numbers game works. Always has, and its even better when you work on yourself to amplify it.

So I genuinely do believe that after I've been talking to many girls during the night that I'll feel a great buzz, and that this (as Owen says) helps me approach other girls. But I never would have thought that someone would imply that Owen's whole point with this was to make men feel that women won't be attracted to them if their state isn't amped to the max. I took it that Owen's whole point was that women will have a certain amount of attraction to you anyway, but that they'll be more attracted to you if you have more confidence from the high state. He was never saying that you've no business approaching a 10 unless your state is high.

It was from a few months when I got into a brief discussion with someone here, that I heard the below argument.

"According to Owen, if your 'state' is 'low' women won't be as attracted to you, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's an inner game handicap, that he's literally installing into your head so you come back to him to get more PUA training. The sheer volume of information Owen has put out there proves it. He's just trying to keep guys stuck so they keep paying. That's what his whole business model was about".

In all this poster gave quite a bit of reasoning as to why he thinks Owen is a "scammer". But his own strategy boiled down to something I'd consider a cliche:

"State is nebulous and you're better off if you carry the belief that no matter your emotional state you are the very best option a girl could have*".

He also said to me, "I will always have an advantage over you in the bar/club/wherever as long as you believe female attraction is dependent on your state. I will steal your girls over and over again."!

So it's almost as if he implies that all men who learned from RSD go around constantly self monitoring (and worrying about) their state. State is obviously only a part of it.

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if Owen has over sold a few points, but I wouldn't believe the above. There have been a few things I've heard him say that I mightn't have believed fully. Like that about how your reticular activating system looks for reasons not to approach at the start of the night, and after many approaches that your RTA will look for reason to approach.

Does anyone have FRs with clubs like mission, den social in nyc? Is it fine to go alone?

I've been to mission and found that everyone seems to stick with their group while dressing super sultty, which does not make sense to me. What is the point of coming and not meeting anyone and leaving with the same group?

I've had really good success in clubs in shanghai, where guys and girls both go alone and end up leaving/hooking up, which is what I'm more used to. I don't have any accent and grew up here. also down to wing/meet, im mid 20s.

I’ll keep this one short and sweet.

What advice would you give someone who has done ok for themselves seduction wise, but has been carried by their looks their whole life and struggles anytime they have to be somewhat proactive about heightening attraction?

I'm not impatient I know this will take time. I'm getting lean, working on my career and cold approaching a ton. I've done about 20 cold approaches in the past 2 weeks. I have no more fear of rejection, I am no longer seeking approval or validation from women. I am focusing on better flirting, escalation, revamping wardrobe and being out more to meet more women and eventually getting laid.

I am getting closer to my fitness goals everyday and have got rid of any limiting beliefs.what else can I do to improve.

Thanks for all the tips and critiques you've given me!

Any tips on going out sober? Used to drink but recently quit drinking. I was more comfortable approaching girls when I was 2 drinks in now when I go out I feel the awkward nervousness in my shoulders. It also doesn’t help that I stopped drinking and moved to a new city and know zero people, so no friend group/wingman.
Any wisdom will be appreciated

Hey everyone!

I’m new to Brisbane Au, and looking for a wingman (or a couple of guys) who are keen to go out, approach some girls and just have a laugh with it.

Not taking it too seriously — the idea is basically to get out there, practice, have some beers, and laugh at the inevitable rejections. If we get some numbers or dates out of it, even better.

I’m pretty easygoing, just looking for someone with a similar mindset who’s keen to get out and socialize.

DM me up if you’re interested!

I mean from the moment you walk into the bar, or when you’re on the dancefloor, or just going about your day. Looking for anything I can incorporate into my own lifestyle!

South Asian men are the least desired demographic in the States.

One thing you always hear as dating advice for dudes is to get ripped if they wanna have hookups/short term relationships from online dating.

Does that hold true for South Asians in America as well? What has y'all's experience been?

one of the things that girls do often is venting and complaining about their problems. what do you do in this situation?

what i do is if the problem she is talking about isn’t that serious i try to tease her and joke about it and if the subject is serious i just listen and tell her i understand her and she has the right to be sad but i don’t give her logical solutions.

what’s your approach?

Simple question really girls keep giving me their snap chat and I don't use it so I always ask for a phone number or Instagram but now I'm thinking since I've been really busy lately and only able to fit in dates during my own schedule/ inviting girls to join me for what I'm already doing (working full time and in college online in the evenings) would it be worth me getting snap? I don't like to talk to girls online that much I feel like it could all just be said in person so snap might help keep me on their mind without saying too much (like by sending photos and stuff not to sure how snap works)

Anyway do you think it will be beneficial to have or am I still better off asking for a phone number, I'm feeling like asking for a phone number is typically better but since I'm busy it might be worth having snap to build that superficial relationship.