r/NoStupidQuestions • u/GoofyAhhGru • 11h ago
Is the current day “blue collar culture” injected with propaganda?
I’m a pretty liberal guy, going to school for engineering, but I work summers doing blue collar jobs. Just about every guy ive worked with could not give less of a damn about the billionaire class, yet they all are either under or barely touching $20-30 an hour. Not to mention the bragging of how many hours they work. I just cant wrap my head around such a large portion of the working class supports things directly against their interests such as healthcare for all and class consciousness, without some sort of psyop of the 1%. Anyone get what I mean?
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u/AMetalWolfHowls 11h ago
I grew up with that and the world was a lot different. Fox News hadn’t taken over, real wages were climbing, and social media was a few years off.
The people were the same though. Bragging about long hours at low wages building a rich man’s bank account.
At least back then that work could buy property. Now those hours don’t cover rent in any metro area in the US.
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u/rafaelthecoonpoon 10h ago
But I guarantee you the AM radio on in auto repair center in your town was set to Rush Limbaugh in Dr. Laura Schlesinger. This has been a propaganda war for 50 years
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u/Best_Philosopher152 10h ago
The “moral majority” era where conservative religious leaders made about having to integrate religious schools and civil rights decided they’d side with the businessmen who could fund there effort to teach them that welfare was evil and abused by black people and taxes were immoral theft.
We got Reagan and welfare queens and trickle down economics and right wing economics of “reward the rich, cut taxes” married to performative Christianity and thinly veiled racism.
And since then it’s been a toxic force in US politics.
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u/akmetal1 11h ago
The bad thing is it’s part brag part expectation that you destroy your body for 25 hr and when you refuse your treatment on the job changes dramaticly
No mention of billionairs needed.
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u/Accurate_Flower_4233 11h ago
Who told those fucking idiots to support a con artist who wants to put tariffs on all of their building materials and tools? That was their only bread and butter.
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u/Blasphemiee 4h ago
You can see it in how angry they are. They can’t figure out why their money isn’t going as far as it used to. I work in the trades also.
If you realize you haven’t seen any adult aged working guys around lately it’s probably because they’re working 80 hr weeks pretending it’s what freedom feels like.
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u/ThePassionOfTheISK 11h ago
Who isn't targeted by propaganda? Anyone?
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u/NativeMasshole 4h ago
This is what I was going to say. If you think white collar work isn't mired in propaganda, too, then you're just as much a part of the problem as they are.
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u/ButterscotchShot2572 2h ago
He wakes up every morning talking about the billionaire class and class consciousness. They’ve both been gotten
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u/Born-Albatross-2426 11h ago
My husband is a union electrician in CA and unfortunately the trades are predominantly maga/republican and even sometimes as far right as QAnon.
My husband often feels uncomfortable at work being that hes a blue dot in a sea of red. You would think the union at least would be safe but it isnt.
Even the IBEW prints election specials in their monthly newsletter encouraging union members to vote for left leaning policies and politicians but It doesnt seem to affect them.
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u/VTAffordablePaintbal 9h ago
I used to run a department at an IBEW company and despite being a manager I'm very pro-labor. I could not understand this sentiment. I've posted this a lot on reddit the past few years but I had lots of conversations like this.
Journeyman - "The Union doesn't do anything for us, it just takes out money!"
Me - "Then why don't you go work for one of our non-union competitors?"
Journeyman - "They don't pay as much."
Me - "Yes..."
Journeyman - "But what does the Union have to do with that?"
Me - "When is the last time you asked me for a raise?"
Journeyman - "Uh, never."
Me - "And when is the last time you got a raise?"
Journeyman - "This year, we get one every year."
Me - "Those raises are negotiated by the Union and the reason we pay better than everyone else is because the union makes sure we keep up with inflation. I'm a non-union IBEW administrator, which means I get health insurance through the union, but I don't have representation, so I have to negotiate for my own raise, and they didn't give me a raise this year."
Journeyman - "Oh..."It seemed like this conversation would stick for 3-6 months and then they're be right back to anti-Union sentiment, probably because that was 1 conversation with the boss vs. 3-6 months of talk radio and Fox News propaganda.
And this is in Vermont, Bernie Sanders lives 7 miles from the shop I used to work in. I feel your husband's pain.
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u/Possible_Proposal447 5h ago
Those right wing union guys want so badly to believe their own fantasy that their hard work and sweat gives them their livelihood. It wouldn't get them anything if the companies renting the union labor had anything to say about it.
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u/Triumph790 5h ago
Yes, and remind them that the health insurance policy the IBEW negotiated is VERY good - much better than they’ll get elsewhere. My buddy is IBEW here in Massachusetts and his policy covers everything and is nearly free for his family.
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u/VTAffordablePaintbal 3h ago
Yeah, it was a big shock to me going back to regular corporate health insurance. I've been fighting with them for 2 years to pay a bill for surgery they pre-approved before I had the surgery.
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u/Electronic_Context_7 5h ago
Seems like the unions need better PR and outreach for their members
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u/OKCompruter 3h ago
that would mean more does go towards overhead and not in actually making a difference in their members lives, which seems exactly like what capitalist forces would prefer. they want unions spending all their resources countering their propaganda
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u/DeFronsac 2h ago
This is very true. I worked at a grocery store and was in a union when I was in college. At the time, I wasn't knowledgeable about the world or politics, and I was very much like "man, they're taking a lot of money, and I don't see any return". But obviously, I was getting a lot of benefit. The problem is the benefits aren't in-your-face enough to make you appreciate them.
My excuse for not realizing the truth was being young and dumb. What sucks is that so many grown adults still have this mindset.
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u/twinklytennis 4h ago
Reminds me of this ad I saw "car insurance is such a scam. If you don't get into an accident, you don't even get your money back".
So...car insurance is suppose to pay out more than what you pay in premiums if you cause an accident but cost nothing if you don't get into an accident.
Seems like when people don't understand how something works, it's very easy for them to think of it as a waste of money.
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u/SeattleSunflower7000 11h ago
I think it started during the Reagan Era. They really pushed their message to the working class, prior to that they voted Democrat (Dixicrat) for the most part. That's when they also pushed the message that "the Right is more patriotic".
I remember my parents and Aunt & Uncle sitting around the kitchen table, talking about switching parties because "they love America", like the other side didn't, because they complained all the time. They were conflicted because they all loved JFK but were going to vote for Reagan. It was like 1980? Of course 3 of the adults were smoking indoors. Lol.
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u/Swimming_Address_842 4h ago
Yeah, Reagan really did mark a major shift in how the Republican Party appealed to working class voters. The whole kitchen table story is such a perfect snapshot of how powerful the patriotism message was at the time lol.
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u/Windcave42 11h ago
About the OT, its because without an education or specific skill you cant make much more hourly so tons of overtime is the common mans way to rise above
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u/Wireman6 5h ago
I bring home 2300 a week, we have seven hour work days. My local has had a seven hour workday for decades. Saturday and Sunday are double time.
I feel bad for the people you are talking about.
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u/RumboBlump 11h ago edited 11h ago
Brother these people see the world from a different perspective, like this~
“They understand that rich people get richer because people buy their products, and that you can’t tax the rich because the net worth you assign to those billionaires belong to their companies not the actual individual, but the companies provide services everyone wants, so you’re just making products more expensive trying to tax them without ever hurting the billionaire. They know that if products get more expensive their own wages don’t go as far, but their union raises their rates anyway. They don’t look at their own boss with confusion blaming billionaires for this, they probably look at people like you instead for asking for taxes on the rich when it doesn’t even affect rich people. When looking at their own bosses they probably see experienced people worthy of respect for the most part making the money they make because they’ve been in the field themselves. They aren’t concerned in the slightest about some guy who’s more successful than them. They in fact champion people who have made it to a place they themselves would like to make when they atttempt to open their own business. When it comes to healthcare, they believe that removing value from companies by attempting to tax the rich causes products they buy to cost them so much more money than their union insurance covers in healthcare costs that it isn’t even worth it”
Their thoughts probably go somewhere like that. They brag about how much they work because regardless of how much you think taxes help, they’re never going to be the ones that benefit from it more than just working a weekend of overtime and swiping the insurance cards. This is exactly how they think.
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u/4tran13 9h ago
1) Are managers in blue collar professions actually competent? There are no Dilbert managers? 2) Union health insurance is actually good?
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u/Mnemnosine 9h ago
Union insurance really is that good. It’s paid for in blood, plus dues and negotiated contracts and whatnot.
But, paid for primarily in blood. Dead union brothers and sisters are why unions will go to the wall for their health benefits over their pay.
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u/Knotical_MK6 6h ago
My union health insurance when I worked private industry kicked ass. Healthcare and dental covered, I never paid a dime. My annual deductible was stupid low, I think like 500 dollars or something unbelievable like that.
I'm in the same union now but working for the government. The state health plan is still good, but I have a monthly payment and a higher deductible now.
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u/RichardTheApe 2h ago
Late but I do think that you’re pulling on two separate things here.
Ask any of those guys what they think of bill gates or someone else who is labeled liberal and they’ll be quite critical
Same question for the “conservative” billionaires and the answer changes.
Their identity is inherently not class based but focused on other factors. Whether that’s racial, religious, nationalist, or a mix of the three will tell you what part of the right they belong to.
So really what you’re running into is two things. One they don’t have class consciousness and two they define billionaires by how they relate to their politics.
Now my personal injection here is that it’s less a psyop and more a consequence of their environment. They don’t value or define class the same way you would. In their eyes class, specifically high class, is a tight hierarchy which is a good thing. Additionally since they value other identities more than class the things related to class are less important to them. That’s why you can have guys who brag about how many hours they worked without being in conflict that they’re being exploited. To them the idea of being a humble part of a larger machine doing the best it can is valuable in itself and in a way calls back to a certain rugged individualism.
I could go on all day but my point is that I think it’s dangerous to simplify anyone’s politics down to “they’re just stupid” like some do in this thread. The reality is people can disagree with me and in their mind have a good reason - understanding that is much more important that disproving them.
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u/Achilles720 10h ago
Coming from someone with a similar worldview, who has existed in this space a lot longer than you, common arguments from the other side are:
"Why do liberals continue to trust a government that threw them overboard 50 years ago?
"When is the last time there was legislation that did anything but help oligarchs and corporations?"
"Why are they so eager to be taxed to death in order to fund endeavors overseas that couldn't possibly help them?"
All valid questions.
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u/Larrythepuppet66 3h ago
All they had to do was convince them they were better than the minorities and it was the minorities making their lives shitty and taking away their opportunities. You do this by chipping away at education, banning books and free thinking so that you have uneducated masses that will inhale the propaganda Fox News spoon feeds them.
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u/MarkRick25 2h ago
Yup. Source: I am a left wing blue collar worker.
The ignorance is insane. And don't get me wrong, these people aren't stupid (mostly), just ignorant and/or fully propogandized. The billionaire class has done a very good job at taking over and controlling almost every kind of media source in the US, and most people arnt that interested in the actual ins and outs of politics, so they mostly get surface level information which is 100% controlled by the billionaire class, and by extension, the right wing of American politics. After years or decades of that kind of news being your only source of information on what's happening in the country/world, that's the kind of views you're going to have.
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u/white_nerdy 7h ago
A lot of programs to help the poor end up making things worse for the middle class. Government help is for people who just give up on life, do drugs all day and give up on working or stick to flipping burgers, according to the blue-collar worldview. If you have a career as a plumber or a builder, you probably make too much for whatever social program the Democrats cook up. Shortly after the 2016 election, Joan C. Williams wrote an article called "What So Many People Don't Get About the US Working Class". The whole article is worth a read; she gets it:
"Remember when President Obama sold Obamacare by pointing out that it delivered health care to 20 million people? Just another program that taxed the middle class to help the poor, said the [white working class], and in some cases that's proved true: The poor got health insurance while some Americans just a notch richer saw their premiums rise...help[ing] the poor but exclud[ing] the middle...are a recipe for class conflict. Example: 28.3% of poor families receive child-care subsidies, which are largely nonexistent for the middle class. So my sister-in-law worked full-time for Head Start, providing free child care for poor women while earning so little that she almost couldn't pay for her own. She resented this, especially the fact that some of the kids' moms did not work. One arrived late one day to pick up her child, carrying shopping bags from Macy's. My sister-in-law was livid.
'Don't they realize Republicans just use them every four years, and then screw them?' ...[i]s actually a sentiment the [white working class] agrees with, which is why they rejected the Republican establishment this year [2016]. But to them, the Democrats are no better.
Both parties have supported free-trade deals because of the net positive GDP gains, overlooking the blue-collar workers who lost work as jobs left for Mexico or Vietnam. These are precisely the voters in the crucial swing states of Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania that Democrats have so long ignored...At a deeper level, both parties need an economic program that can deliver middle-class jobs. Republicans have one: Unleash American business. Democrats? They remain obsessed with cultural issues. I fully understand why transgender bathrooms are important, but I also understand why progressives' obsession with prioritizing cultural issues infuriates many Americans whose chief concerns are economic. Back when blue-collar voters used to be solidly Democratic (1930-1970), good jobs were at the core of the progressive agenda..."
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u/DecisionDelicious170 1h ago
“ jobs left for Mexico or Vietnam” 1. Automation displaced more of those workers than offshoring. 2. Those jobs are never coming back. 3. Even if those jobs came back, they’re not worth anything in an anti-labor environment.
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u/Brechtian_ 11h ago
I think you're doing a classic, condescending read of working class culture from someone outside of it.
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u/mmm_burrito 11h ago
Speaking as someone in the trades for nearly 20 years, they pretty much nailed it.
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u/GoofyAhhGru 11h ago
Shucks, see I was trying to avoid coming across like that. In what way?
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u/94grampaw 11h ago
"They dont care about billionaire's" Yeah because its not like its going to change by talking about it all the fuckin time. Work your job pay your bill try to squeeze out a little joy in life.
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u/skepticaljesus 11h ago
A third option is to vote for the party that actually supports progressive tax policy
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u/94grampaw 10h ago
You can vote and not bitch about shit you cant control at the same time.
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u/RandomGuyPii 10h ago
what benefit would joe construction worker get out of a progressive tax policy.
in his eyes that money just goes to 'freeloaders' (people who won't put in the hard work like he does) on welfare and whatnot
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u/MrJusticeDouglas 10h ago
But talking about it and having discussions does change things...
"Just do your work and hope to find some joy" means nothing will change.
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u/94grampaw 10h ago
It can but you have to actually talk about realistic things, just being mad about billionaires isn't useful, talk about the next realistic step that actually makes things better with in a few years
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u/MrJusticeDouglas 10h ago
Oh, then I think we agree haha. I was assuming that OP's position was about engaging in useful, thoughtful conversations, not just hoping blue collar workers yell aimlessly about billionaires.
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u/94grampaw 10h ago
It was the only example OP used so I assume it was his best. He could have talked about Healthcare reform or shutting down imigrant employment that the rich use to supress wages and improvingworking conditionsof blue coller workers, but he only mentioned billionaires
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u/runtheroad 11h ago
Assuming everyone who doesn't agree with you must be getting their opinion from "propaganda"? Plenty of economists would say you're billionaire hating is propaganda, but economics is apparently one place where Redditors don't want to listen to the people with the PHDs.
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u/mmm_burrito 11h ago
Bro, this whole country is propagandized up to their fuckin eyeballs.
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u/Jabba5991 10h ago edited 10h ago
Bro, every country in every era throughout human history was propagandized up to the fuckin eyeballs. Propaganda is what humans do. We’re social creatures. We use persuasion to persuade. When we live in big groups (i.e. societies), we use means of persuasion to persuade the masses. Ancient Mesopotamia (hopefully they still teach kids about ancient civilizations) had propaganda. You have to learn to think critically though and venture outside echo chambers like this one on Reddit.
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u/Rorschach11235 11h ago
You can have billionaires and not have people starving in the streets. Actually economics says that is a real thing.
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u/PerfectTrust7895 11h ago
There's a reason every socialist revolution in the world was led or pushed by college students. The proletariat is stupid and needs education, otherwise they consume corporate propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
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u/empty_graph 9h ago
You should read Road to Wigan Pier. George Orwell wrote the entire second half of the book about you.
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u/NOTTallestEgg 10h ago edited 9h ago
> every socialist revolution in the world was led or pushed by college students.
Not necessarily true. There are plenty of examples of Socialist revolutions where workers were in control without an intellectual clique leading them, just for a few examples:
- The Paris Commune
- "On the dawn of March 18, Paris arose to the thunder-burst of “Vive la Commune!” What is the Commune, that sphinx so tantalizing to the bourgeois mind? 'The proletarians of Paris, said the Central Committee in its manifesto of March 18, “amidst the failures and treasons of the ruling classes, have understood that the hour has struck for them to save the situation by taking into their own hands the direction of public affairs.... They have understood that it is their imperious duty, and their absolute right, to render themselves masters of their own destinies, by seizing upon the governmental power.'"
- “From the members of the Commune downwards, the public service had to be done at workman’s wage “
- “The Commune was formed of the municipal councillors, chosen by universal suffrage in the various wards of the town, responsible and revocable at short terms. The majority of its members were naturally working men, or acknowledged representatives of the working class. The Commune was to be a working, not a parliamentary body, executive and legislative at the same time… In a rough sketch of national organization, which the Commune had no time to develop, it states clearly that the Commune was to be the political form of even the smallest country hamlet, and that in the rural districts the standing army was to be replaced by a national militia, with an extremely short term of service. The rural communities of every district were to administer their common affairs by an assembly of delegates in the central town, and these district assemblies were again to send deputies to the National Delegation in Paris, each delegate to be at any time revocable and bound by the mandat imperatif (formal instructions) of his constituents. The few but important functions which would still remain for a central government were not to be suppressed, as has been intentionally misstated, but were to be discharged by Communal and thereafter responsible agents.”
- “The surrender to associations of workmen, under reserve of compensation, of all closed workshops and factories, no matter whether the respective capitalists had absconded or preferred to strike work “
- (https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/ch05.htm)
- November Revolution Germany:
- "On November 4th the revolt in Kiel occurred. The ferment manifested itself first among the sailors. Rumours of revolt among the sailors were heard during the past year, and the Independent Social Democrats defended themselves against the accusations of complicity. Now it broke out anew, stronger and more general, “by mistake” as the Vossiche Zeitung said. Revolutions often occur through such mistakes - the conviction amongst the sailors that the fleet was ordered out to hopeless combat. The sailors organised a council, arrested their officers, hoisted the red flag, and presented their demands to the Government. The social-patriot, Noske, arriving in Kiel, attempted to stop them but in vain. On November 5th the movement extended to Hamburg, where the dock workers declared for a sympathetic strike; traffic ceased and the soldiers joined the revolution... Meanwhile, the revolution continued to spread; in Cologne, Munich, Stuttgart, throughout Germany. Everywhere Workers’ and Soldiers’ Councils sprang into being and imprisoned the officers and officials of the old regime, except those who declared their willingness to assist the revolution. Everywhere the new Republic was proclaimed, kings and princes abdicated and disappeared, and, finally, on November 9th, Emperor Wilhelm abdicated. Berlin, which remained calm until the last, went over to the revolution, the Soldiers’ and Workers’ Council took control without bloodshed, and the police of the old regime disappeared from the streets. The movement extended to the Western front, and Wilhelm was forced to flee from the General Staff Headquarters at Spa to the Netherlands." (https://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1918/germany.htm)
- The Saigon Commune
- "In Saigon, a large number of people’s committees (reminiscent of the 1936 action committees) arose spontaneously as institutions of local government. The workers of the various districts of Saigon had already elected their committees in August. Embryonic forms of people’s councils emerged everywhere; the formation of councils seemed to possess an irresistible dynamic. The League of Internationalist Communists did everything it could to coordinate this movement. In a working class neighborhood in Saigon it set up an office where the elected delegates of these councils could meet under the protection of armed workers. These delegates disseminated a declaration in which they proclaimed their independence from the Stalinist de facto government as well as their resolute condemnation of any infringement of the autonomy of the decisions of the workers and the peasants." (https://libcom.org/article/hundred-year-war-ngo-van-xuyet)
- In this atmosphere of Vietminh terror, the workers' militia of the Go Vap tramway depot, some 60 strong, participated in the insurrection, on its own initiative. The 400 workers and employees of the Tramway Company were well-known for their militancy and independent frame of mind. Under French imperialist rule there had been no trade union rights...They insisted on remaining a proletarian militia, and rejected the Vietminh flag (yellow star on red background), saying they would continue their fight under the red flag, the flag of their own class emancipation.
- The intolerance of the Vietminh in relation to all independent tendencies, the accusations of treachery combined with threats of murder and the numerical weakness of the tramwaymen's militia eventually forced its members to disperse. Three of them, Le Ngoc, Ky and Huong, a young worker of 14, were stabbed to death by Vietminh bands. (https://libcom.org/article/1945-saigon-commune)
- In Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War
- "Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags or with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the ini- tials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workmen. Every shop and café had an inscription saying that it had been collectivized; even the bootblacks had been collectivized and their boxes painted red and black. Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal. Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. No- body said ’Señor’ or ’Don’ or even ’Usted’; everyone called everyone else ’Comrade’ and ’Thou’, and said ’Salud!’ in- stead of ’Buenos días’. Tipping was forbidden by law since the time of Primo de Rivera; almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy. " (https://usuaris.tinet.cat/palonso/llibres/orwell_homage_at_catalonia.pdf)
- FaSinPat factory occupation and seizure
- After the closure of the Zanon factory, workers squatted the abandoned factory in a desperate attempt to keep their jobs. They justified this by the large amount of money they were owed in back pay, the fact that the Zanon factory had been built with public funds, as well as worries about asset stripping. These events occurred in the general context of the turmoil created by the 2001 economic crisis. Following the initial occupation, the workers spent months camping outside of the factory without receiving any wages. Facing an attempted lockout by Zanon's management, the workers voted on October 2, 2001, to remain in the factory. On March 2, 2002, 240 workers resumed production for the first time without Zanon management supervision. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaSinPat)
Also it should be noted that most college students are proletarians - they're getting a degree so they can sell their labor to a property owner in the future.
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u/RandomGuyPii 10h ago
how very authoritarian of you mr 'power to the people'
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u/PerfectTrust7895 8h ago
The solution is to educate the people so they are less mentally deficient than you are
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u/Powerful_Meaning8891 8h ago
Yes comrade, we must educate the masses because WE (the superior and educated) know what’s best for them.
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u/Dear_Mention_3305 5h ago
Also, remember that we are all equal. But some are more equal than others.
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u/Achilles720 10h ago
What a shallow way to look at the people who make the entire economy function. This is a shamefully ignorant view for an allegedly educated person. And counterproductive as well, if you'd like them to come around to your own worldview.
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u/Jabba5991 10h ago
There’s also a reason their revolutions never work. The college students and intellectuals design everything for the revolution in the vacuum of the classroom, which is why it seems like it should work in their heads, but never does irl. It always ignores the whole human nature part that you can’t avoid outside the classroom. Socialism/communism can only work in a small group where everyone knows one another personally. Otherwise there is insufficient trust and/or sense of personal responsibility/shame. Humans evolved over many hundreds of thousands of years to survive in small tribes and family groups. We are far from adapting psychologically to the lifestyle changes brought by the agricultural revolution over only tens of thousands of years ago.
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u/barryg123 2h ago
Wrong, look up Poland solidarity. In 1980 is was basic electricians etc that were able to rid Poland of communism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_(Polish_trade_union)
Also if you want to go further back in history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts
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u/JuicynMoist 2h ago
This “against their interests” stuff completely ignores that these people have other interests besides economic interests. These are people that tend to have very strong social/cultural interests and social/cultural conformity of the flavor they prefer is something the right-wing has a monopoly on.
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u/DilleyDeezDalleys 20m ago
Its about controlling discontent away from the business owner and onto any other acceptable scapegoats you are allowed to blame for your problems like low pay, no health insurance, less time with family due to mandatory OT, etc.
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u/Interesting-Tank-160 11h ago
I truly don't get the "shut up, work harder" mindset. I work pretty darn hard to get where I'm at for damn near 30 years, but shouldn't we strive for a society where we work less?
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u/556or762 10h ago
Idealism vs pragmatism.
You are idealistic. They are pragmatic.
To many people, your way of viewing this is akin to saying the world should be puppy dogs and rainbows.
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u/anothercar 11h ago
A guy in college thinks he knows the working class better than the working class? Plus a touch of superiority because the college kid knows billionaires make more than plumbers?
Gotta be www.Reddit.com
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u/bigmastertrucker 10h ago
I really like that he sees people talking about their own lives and ways they personally can make more money instead of pointlessly seething against "the billionaire class" and his takeaway is THEY'RE propagandized.
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u/gameraturtle 11h ago
Of course he knows better. He lowers himself to their level on his summer vacations. What more could he possibly do?
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u/RyeBourbonWheat 11h ago
First question, are you a socialist? You used a few key words in there that beg the question.
If there were propaganda being injected into blue collar culture, it would be shit like this. You can't comprehend why someone is proud of being resilient? For working damn hard for everything they have and using OT to support their families? Really?
You seem to look down on working folks. Thats not how Dems win hearts and minds... and for the record, once you become an engineer and make the big bucks, I hope you remember that phrase you used of "supporting things directly against their interests" while advocating for substantially higher marginal tax rates... because that is exactly what you will be doing.
I worked landscape construction for almost a decade as a foreman. I currently work in Dem State politics and State government.
I don't mean to be harsh, but as a working class dude, this is very "ivory tower liberal" shit. You seem like you are talking down to them/about them. Thats not cool.
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u/CookhouseOfCanada 10h ago
FYI Outside of managers with an engineering background and software engineers, experienced blue collar makes more than today's engineers with more jobs security if you have union.
Engineering is outsourced, entry level jobs are hard to come by, and you generally work shit pay for a few years before cracking 100k if you position yourself right. There are no unions to protect yourself against vultures.
Starting a business from your degree? To be a consultant or start a firm no one will take you seriously unless you have 10 years of experience and even that means you need clients setup beforehand.
Engineering these days is bleak. To break through ceilings its a lot of politics.
All the friends I grew up with are blue collar. Most of them have a crew, are expanding and make 50% more than I do. For perspective I am at a very good company with 6 - 7 years of experience.
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u/ONETHOUSANDTEETH 9h ago
Hey, only here to address what you said about engineering being a tough field to go into. I think many jobs are under pressure right now and so there might be some real challenges going on in the job market. But my experience is that engineering was a great field for me.
For me and my friends it seems good to be in chemical, electrical, and mechanical engineering. Me and most of my friends with those degrees have great jobs that pay well over $100k and have good life satisfaction. I think they see their situations as the opposite of bleak.
I also have friends from high school who went into some trades, a car painter, a plumber, and a machinist. Each also makes over $100k easy. One owns a small business which is very exciting.
I think there are a lot of really great options out there not limited to trades or engineering either.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat 10h ago
My understanding is that it depends on the field of engineering and/or willingness to relocate.
Regardless, that guy making $22 an hour ain't cracking 6 figures.. and the point stands. I don't think "you are voting against your own interests" is a good argument.
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u/4tran13 7h ago
You mention a very good point about "supporting things directly against their interests". But at some level, national interests should have some relevance, instead of just "everyone for themselves"? Nat debt is already > 100% GDP, and that sounds like a srs red flag. Do you have any good ideas?
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u/RyeBourbonWheat 1h ago
National debt is a big issue. I think what we need to do, ironically, is make big investments in the things that will turn that around over time by addressing systemic issues. One main issue I look at is early childhood development and child care. Reduce incarceration by building a strong foundation - turn a net massive drain on the economy into a net positive - and for those in jail we need to change the program to be more rehabilitative rather than punitive. The goal of jail should be to correct behavior and turn you into someone who has the skills to not behave in such a manner that landed you there in the first place.
I would look at programs to get poor rural or inner city kids into the trades... same with homeless people, but that would vary a bit more.
Basically, make investments where we can turn net drains on the economy into productive ones.
Second, we will have to raise taxes. Marginal rates in particular. Minimum corporate tax rates are probably fine, but you need to engage in trade agreements/international treaty at large through diplomacy to see that minimum rate enforced universally.
Remove the cap on Medicare. Create a public option. Healthy people who get preventative care tend to be more productive for the economy. So let's do that. Right now, health insurance companies aren't really incentivized to do preventative care because their customers could switch jobs and thusly switch insurance at any point, and they end up on Medicare eventually. It would be fiscally irresponsible to make those investments for a private firm.
So... its a lot of going to the root of the problem and making systemic changes, at least in my opinion.
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u/GoofyAhhGru 11h ago
Not socialist, maybe democratic socialist. Not really trying to look down on anyone, maybe I’m not wording this right. I imagine a guy who’s 30-40 years old, doing back breaking labor 60 hours a week for $22 an hour. He lives paycheck to paycheck, his body is deteriorating, and he has no retirement. He’s going to need multiple surgeries he can’t afford just to work, and is going to need to apply for disability eventually. I’ve seen this over and over again. Are you really going to tell me it is in his best interest to vote for lowering taxes (across the board of course), defund healthcare, lower osha regulations, etc? Basically I’m trying to say most these dudes only focus on identity/ social politics, while the US government tells the lie of “we can’t provide anything for you” and they pay no mind.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat 10h ago
There is a rugged individualist mindset in that culture that stems from the resilience that has been required of them to do what they do. I know this, because I used to be in that even as a lifelong Democrat.
If you are asking me if Republican policies would be beneficial to working people, I obviously would strongly disagree with that. But this "you are voting against your interests" argument is not great. You will be voting against your interests once you are an engineer making good money by advocating for policy that will not be in your financial interest. This makes the argument particularly bad.
Social issues motivate people with regard to who they vote for. For better or for worse, this is something we have to contend with, particularly in this age of communication. Its a rough playing field for Democrats. Our policies require explanation, whereas Republican positions are intuitive. "I will lower your taxes" which means you will have more money, is intuitive. These folks are working 60 hours. The majority don't invest their free time in high minded policy research.
Dem socs are socialists.
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u/94grampaw 10h ago
When have democrats ran on lowering taxes for under 100k income tax brackets?
Not in a convoluted background way but in a literal instead of 10% and 12% it will be 4% and 7% way.
Actually lower taxes on lower incomes, to make it more progressive
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u/TemperatureNext174 11h ago
I mean, I'm in college, but I can recognize that 90% of my peers are walking out with crippling debt that feeds into the pockets of said billionaires. Who's being fed propaganda? I forgot...
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u/540_MadisonAve_10022 11h ago
No, but reddit is injected with propaganda and this post reads as an example.
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u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 2h ago
Define blue collar job for me. I live in jabumfuck nowhere missouri and make well over 30$ an hour doing trim work. Our local trash guys make between 25/30 depending on driver/guy on back.. I could be over thinking it but man this reads like someone cosplaying blue collar while actively talking down to them like they're clearly too stupid to know what's good for them..
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u/IllustriousYak6283 2h ago
That is exactly what this is.
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u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 2h ago
Just seems wild to pretend every blue collar worker is just so damn dumb.. duurrr durrr.. we incapable of individual thought..must be brainwashed.. can't possibly have legitimate arguments against the things he said.. but hey trust me I've worked blue collar jobs. I definitely know what I'm talking about..energy
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u/IllustriousYak6283 2h ago
The guy who works 20 hours a week during a 6 week summer break has thoughts on the plight of the working man.
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u/Rockrose2792 11h ago
People love to minimize education but there's some value in it
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u/PeaAccurate5208 2h ago
I’ll add to this. 40 yrs again in the height of the Reagan era,I worked a summer job at a brewery. I mentioned to one of the full time employees that it was a well paid job (it was at the time,it was a union plant) and I could understand the appeal of working your 40 and maybe some overtime without the hassle of further education. He set me straight quickly; yes,union factory jobs paid well but they took a toll on your body and spirit. He also mentioned that his previous union job at a whirlpool factory was great until it closed and his job went to Mexico. His solid advice was to get an education and not be tempted by a job that may not even exist tomorrow. I still remember this and have even greater respect for him now than I did then.
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u/gameraturtle 11h ago
They just have different propaganda than you. They don’t care about the billionaire class because that has no impact on them. You care because that’s the propaganda you’ve fallen for.
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u/DisplayGlum7166 11h ago
of course, just like any identity ppl attach themselves to. the easier you name it, the easier people can target it
i wouldnt dismiss it completely tho, part of it comes from real organic human behavior and some of it is used in a malevolent way. just dont take it so serious to be activated
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u/Rumlazy 5h ago
The mass has always been the victims for propaganda of the elites for ages. To some extent, even patriotic is a kind of propaganda - the rulers (either kings, religious leaders in old times or politician in modern times) enjoy the benefits when the mass are inspired to kill each others.
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u/tes_befil 4h ago
Everything is injected with propaganda there is literally no group of people that aren't, even academics has been heavily corrupted.
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u/Wild_Photons 4h ago
I think that the answer is more complex than that.
What is a core tenant of many blue collar workers? It is self sufficiency and working for what you receive.
If that is your philosophy why would you say that all your problems are caused by some billionaire that built a successful business?
Here is my personal opinion. I think that the billionaire class has become too powerful and has the ability to continue generating wealth at a rapid rate because of tax policy that favors them. This will become a huge problem. At the same time, I think that billionaires have become a scapegoat for the left and they miss other massive factors that help explain why the standard of living in the United States is degrading.
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u/FewMeasurement3748 4h ago
Literally everything is injected with propaganda nowadays. It's crazy, don't know if I'm just getting old, but I see it everywhere.
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u/Suitable_Program_548 3h ago
I don’t think it’s being against it as much as it is not wanting to dwell on things you have no control over. Better to make the best out of life and be happy.
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u/techzilla 3h ago edited 3h ago
They tell you what their big economic concern is, this isn't hard. If you work as a framer making 25 bucks an hour, did you ever ask why they don't love immigration? Did you ever think that maybe they had an economic interest to feel as they do? If you are pro-immigration, and even if opposing illegal immigration, you disqualify yourself as their advocate.
I don't think the political process is representing them, but it's not hard to see why they were not attracted to the contemporary progressive coalition. Your version of class consciousness places intersectionality first, not class interests, and for many of these workers that means they are not the primary concern on any axis.
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u/dumbname0192837465 3h ago
A lot of it is blue collar guys yelling at the clouds because they think someone is looking down on them. They have some need to justify the career they chose.
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u/TechnologyDragon6973 2h ago
Just because most blue collar workers aren’t liberal doesn’t mean they have been propagandized, and neither does it mean that they are stupid.
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u/Pelican_meat 2h ago
Yes. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a blue collar worker brag about pulling 60 hour weeks while simultaneously calling union workers lazy for only working 40.
It took decades of propaganda bombardment to get us to a place where the person being taken advantage of is proud of the abuse they suffer.
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u/FlanneryODostoevsky 2h ago
It’s a toxic culture of desperation and hierarchy. Many love the taste of the masters boots because you can get paid pretty well. But I posted about black rock saying pension funds may be used for data centers and all the people who love saying building them is 👍 👍 👍 didn’t show up. They know they’re wrong but they don’t have to admit it and truth be told this line of work is much harder to do when you can’t find a purpose in it.
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u/Qoric422 2h ago
I'm a cook and my co-workers constantly brag about working a crap ton of hours. People have been turned into sheep. I've been telling people about this shit for a decade and no one listens. They won't ever listen enjoy facism
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u/micro_Ampere 1h ago
Depends strongly on where you are.
A lot of (white) blue collar guys in the south are actually self hating. They think they're broke losers deep down in their heart of hearts, which is why they like billionaires and boot licking so much. This is also why they do the crabs in a bucket thing ("You think you're so much better than me just because you went to school and can talk proper" or whatever). I've been there and I've seen it. Fox News and its associates tell them what they like to hear and they don't bother looking any deeper because their friends think the same thing and those annoying liberal elites just want to wag fingers.
Secretly, a lot of these guys are socialists and hold far left opinions and views, they just twist them up so they sound patriotic and manly and libertarian. I used to have so many eye opening conversations with my coworkers. One dude was 220% Trump all the way, and he also believed in a flat living wage for all positions in all industries with state paid insurance. It's all incoherent because these people are kept away from actual politics and fed a politics-feeling substitute instead.
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u/Initial_Warning5245 1h ago
Did it ever occur to ANYONE that many people derive satisfaction from a job well done, it is part of their identity and it matters to them.
They want LESS government oversight, less taxes and want to life on a way they see as correct.
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u/atomfenrir 56m ago
I definitely felt this post having worked 15+ years in chemical plants in the southeast. I assumed the self class hatred was mostly a regional thing but judging from the comments I guess not. I don't really miss hearing the older guys parrot whatever the current Fox News star said last night nor the younger guys parroting Joe Rogan and Qanon. I remember being young and naive and being shocked that some of the chemical engineers, who I regarded as highly intelligent people, were climate change deniers.
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u/Accurate_Flower_4233 35m ago
Engineers are some of the worse. Lol. They are smart enough just to be dangerous. They got that degree so they all think they are Einstein.
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u/d1stor7ed 54m ago
The culture wars are intended to prevent class wars, which the wealthy truly fear.
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u/Many-Restaurant-2991 54m ago
Very likely from their social media and whatever news feeds they consume. This pertains to everybody.
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u/CamelNo9597 9h ago
It can't have anything to do with smug 20-something leftists condescending to them and telling them that they know their interests better than they do themselves.
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u/unclefes 11h ago
Everyone would like to think that propaganda doesn't work on them. They are wrong.
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u/deccan2008 11h ago
Many blue collar workers these days are pro-AI because building data centers provides lots of employment. Meanwhile white collar workers are more worried about AI replacing their jobs. They have different interests.
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u/akmetal1 11h ago
Yea and when the job is done only like 50-100 people will work in a 1200 acre data center. So unless these trades are making 100$ with their straight time they are not working towards early retirement but rather working themselves out of a job
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u/deccan2008 11h ago
But isn't it the same for every construction job? Blue collar workers come in to build an apartment complex. Once it's done they leave and go to the next job.
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u/badluser 11h ago
Everything in America is propaganda, it feels like.
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u/iz-Moff 10h ago
Not just America, *everywhere*, literally. None of us, apart from maybe some hermit in a cave somewhere, have lived in a world where propaganda isn't an ever present background. Although many people get convinced that propaganda is strictly something that looks as blunt as early 20th century political posters, whereas when they, like op here, recite the exact same points as hundreds of thousands other redditors, almost word-to-word, well, that's just great minds think alike.
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u/Multiple__Butts 11h ago
Yes, just listen to conservative talk radio for the last 50 years. It's been heavily funded by the magnate class the entire time. They didn't pull the Arbitrarily Rugged Cowboy-with-a-gravelly-voice tropes entirely out of thin air, but they worked very hard to sand down any edges that were unfriendly to billionaires, and instill them as the primary self-identity of conservative Americans.
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u/commonCranberry999 9h ago
ever heard of the dunning kruger effect?? you're just a midwit.
you're the one that's been brainwashed by propaganda and you don't even realize it. the countries without billionaires are a lot worse off.
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u/The_Doctor_of_Sparks 11h ago
We aren't injected with propaganda. We just don't care.
I make more than enough to provide for my family as a mechanic. We're happy, and comfortable, and we just bought our first house. We're doing just fine. I'm in my early twenties and my retirement is already planned out and on the way there.
To be super honest, despite what leftists like yourself keep claiming. The country isn't falling apart and everything isn't terrible all the time. The last three presidents haven't really mattered that much. Except for the covid lockdowns nothing in my life has changed enough for me to really notice or care. Truml,Biden, Trump again, same thing really.
To quote someone who said a thing once, "stuffs pretty great when you don't have someone in your ear screaming at you to hate it."
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u/TA1930 8h ago
And if I was stealing $20 out of your retirement savings account every week you wouldn’t notice immediately, that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Large scale policy rarely has immediate major impact on you, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Ignoring things doesn’t make them go away.
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u/BlondeBubbel 4h ago
A billionaire existing does not hurt me personally. Lower class criminals on the other hand…
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u/lethalinfecteddevils 4h ago
Um the billionaires are the people hurting you the most directly on every other direction besides the front and even thats debatable. You just don’t want to see it.
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u/zeetuslepitus 3h ago
A billionaire existing hurts you everyday in a hundred ways. Petty crime hurts you when it happens. We also tend to charge and arrest petty criminals, but you basically cant become a billionaire without ruining peoples lives
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u/IllustriousYak6283 2h ago
Petty crime causes prices to increase, it creates food and service deserts, it’s the reason I can buy anything at Walgreens without having the cases unlocked. This idea that petty crime doesn’t impact our daily lives is insanely ignorant.
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u/ussrname1312 1h ago
Petty crime is directly related to poverty. Less wealth inequality means less crime. So, at the core of the problem, it is still the fault of the people hoarding the wealth.
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u/TheMountainWhoDews 9h ago
Billionaires are not stopping those guys getting ahead in life, but the policies you support are.
It's not propaganda, they're just not willing to fall for your specific brand of propaganda.
People just want to be left alone and have the ability to look after their families. It's not rocket science.
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u/AdorableBanana166 10h ago edited 10h ago
I know this one!
When you work that hard to provide a life for yourself above abject poverty it can be frustrating seeing anyone who doesn't work that hard achieve the same things.
Add in culture war bullshit and a steady stream of propaganda showing them that the only people receiving assistance are people who don't work like them and don't look like them and there you have it.
Edit: bragging about hours though is really just pride in being able to do it. It's an easy to digest symbol of the effort they put in either for their families or for their future. Let them have that.
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u/JacksonFatBack 8h ago
Have you considered that your perspective of 'what is in their best interest' is not aligned with theirs?
Remember, they think you vote against your own best interest.
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u/firelight 10h ago
There's propaganda, sure. But the real indoctrination goes deeper than that. After a lot of thought, I think it comes down to one word: hierarchy
Going back centuries, the working class has had it ground into their very bones that society is all about who you’re above and who you’re below. You work hard, pay your dues, put in the hours, and eventually you’ll work your way up the chain. Maybe become a shift lead, a manager, maybe even own your own company someday. But for today, you need to know your place and only take what you’ve earned. Taking handouts makes you a bum, and that puts you at the bottom of the hierarchy. The boss might be a selfish asshole, but he’s still the boss. He’s in charge because that’s how the world is. Getting rid of the asshole bosses just means a new set of asshole bosses to replace them.
In order for such people to believe in class solidarity you first have to get them to believe that people are equal, and that’s something they cannot do. It’s just unimaginable. They’d rather be a big fish in a small pond, or at least imagine they’ll be a big fish one day.
As LBJ said, “If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”
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u/Kooky_Duck6809 11h ago
it's the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality mixed with propaganda to get the working class to blame immigrants/poc instead of billionaires for their problems
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u/KB5JRC 11h ago
I have worked in engineering for 40 years with a fair amount of it on or near the plant floor. My coworkers are machinists and electrical workers. Some were skilled assemblers. These are skilled people who make descent money -- $34-$40 per hour plus overtime.
What i see is people who work. They learned a skill. They get benefits like healthcare, PTO, and a 401k. They are willing to pay their way, but they are not willing to pay more in taxes for fewer benefits, especially for those they perceive as not putting in the effort.
To give you an example, our company has excellent medical that we pay less than 1/2 what the ACA plans cost. It costs less than Medicare and better coverage (like including coverage for childbirth and birth control that Medicare doesn't cover).
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u/laserwaffles 11h ago
The wildest part about this whole philosophy is you end up paying more in taxes because of emergency room healthcare.
You're essentially paying twice because you don't want somebody else to benefit, despite the fact that you would only have to pay once if everyone benefited
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u/broccoliO157 10h ago
The prevailing propaganda that conservatives lower taxes is the only thing that keep otherwise sane people voting conservative.
They implement regressive taxation — less tax for the oligarchs, more tax for commoners. Upper-middle class doesn't benefit.
All the "austerity" bullshit always ends up costing way more in the end.
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u/tonylouis1337 11h ago
To me this sounds like you're better off asking them why they're fine and enjoy their lives
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u/bruhbelacc 4h ago
Wow a socialist telling people they don't know what's in their best interest, how incredibly patronizing and surprising.
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u/Leading_Sir_1741 11h ago
It’s stupid. But the democrats keep going for the trans athletes crap and lose everyone
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u/Prevalentthought 9h ago
Yes. It's generally pretty easy to manipulate Americans and the rest just like to be evil.
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u/Stangguy_82 9h ago
It has to do with the American Ideal of self sufficiency that has beenn ingrained into the American identity since its founding.
Most older adults still have those ideals and many blue collar workers absorb that mentality because it is their reality.
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u/lukenog 7h ago
Definitely depends where you work tbh. I live in New Orleans, and I'm also a blue collar contract worker. The guys I work with in New Orleans are all either damn near socialists or are open socialists but I also do a lot of work in Covington and Mandeville and those dudes are MAGA as fuck lol. And that's all basically just in one greater metro area.
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u/Particular-Big-6025 6h ago
Literally used to vend at a farmers market, got really close to vendors who I thought were like minded. They talked about anti capitalist ideas and how working 9-5s were back breaking. Then this election came around and all of sudden they want a business man telling them what to do. I was confused and now we’re in an economy where many of these vendors have to shut down their shops because it’s not profitable. I just don’t get it! It’s like you’re so close yet so far from the change you wanna see, but keep falling back to old ideas.
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u/SinofThrash 6h ago
It's basically this. Blue collar jobs are usually traders and self employed individuals. They have to file tax returns every year. They HATE tax because they're used to being paid untaxed (at least where I am), and can see how much tax in full they have to pay every year. So they vote for the party that says they will reduce income tax.
That and something about immigrants stealing their jobs because they work harder for less.
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u/Wireman6 5h ago
I am in a Union and we discuss it all of the time. Some might say it is the kernal of our existence.
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u/Hairy-Quantity7409 5h ago
There’s absolutely propaganda injected in many corners of modern culture
I do think you’ve stumbled across some nefarious propaganda with the billionaires and working against interest (and politics) but there’s been blue collar pride in hard work and long hours for generations
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u/AgreeAndSubmit 4h ago
I get it. I'm blue collar, and hear about how our insurance is shit, this don't do shit for us, blah blah blah. Hey we should make our state have rules about that stuff. Nah the government don't care about us. What if we make them care? Nah it'll never work. Why? We all agree this shit is broken. Nah, the government don't care and violence isn't the answer. What if we make them care by striking? Nah, I'm not rich enough to strike. Fml.
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u/SaudiHaramco 3h ago
It's not just propaganda in the obvious sense like news and social media. But it's culture more broadly. The entire idea of the american dream as propagated by hollywood is essentially just right-wing ideology. Super heroes are essentially glorified cops who protect the status quo. Sports competitions are games simulating war and capitalism. Fashion is largely about signaling social status. Culture is shaped by power structures and reinforces them.
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u/Pleasetakemecanada 3h ago
Yes. There's a very toxic work culture amongst the people who trained me at my job when I started 20 years ago and it really does sink right in to your mindset. I'm still trying to work myself out of it. I've never believed these extremely wealthy people are looking out for anyone's best interests, however. Don't take your breaks, bust your ass 24/7 while the company fucks you. It's hard to untwist yourself out of the guilt of interrupting what a coworker is doing knowing they barely have time for what they're assigned to, just the same as yourself. Corporate mindfuck. The worst kind.
Get us more workers you fuckers.
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u/Personal-Serve5431 3h ago
I've seen this shift too, especially with how social media lets guys in the trades talk more openly about things they used to just shrug off. Most people I work with still focus on the job and family first, but there's definitely more talk about keeping outside trends from changing the job site vibe.
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u/justreadinplease 2h ago
I grew up in the south and saw it first hand. People will write paragraphs explaining it but it’s mostly because of racism and homophobia used by right wingers.
Started with right wing radio workers would listen to then moved on to right wing chode podcasts
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u/FairLawnBoy 1h ago
Yes. But it's not new. Mike Rowe is a product of Koch Brother funding and propaganda.
Dirty Jobs, Your New Home...all propaganda.
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u/Lolomelon 1h ago
Maybe dismantling the public school system and demonizing higher ed has resulted in a less-engaged, more docile workforce?
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u/fryxharry 1h ago
Contrary to popular belief, people don't want to be victims. So instead of blaming the people who rig the system against them, they are taking pride in their suffering and look down on people who are less capable or worse off than themselves, while they revere the billionaire class (because they think the fact they are rich proves they are more hard working and more capable than others).
It's soothing to think that people get what they deserve. This leads directly to the thinking that people who suffer must just be lazy or stupid.
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u/kittenTakeover 1h ago
I consider it a variation of stockholm synrome. People tend to perceive those that they rely on for survival with rose colored glasses. This often translates to employer worship. If your employer is a benevolent being, then you'll probably absorb a lot of the hard work and long hours shit that they push for.
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u/No_Working2900 1h ago
More like the left gave up messaging to the blue collar working class. I’d argue they are still votes that can be returned to the left but for some reason things like family, patriotism, and faith are poison to leftist elites. So when the working class see elite leftists they see them as alien.
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u/Johnnadawearsglasses 1h ago
People who live like this are focused on making living and supporting their families. They aren't sitting in school daydreaming about philosophical questions. Which is why the revolutionaries tend to be upper middle class, college educated people.
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u/swaggerrrondeck 1h ago
How is it supporting things against your interest the same as ignoring it or being blissfully unaware?
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u/stogie-bear 1h ago
Most billionaires have their money invested in companies that hire employees, and that do business with other companies that hire employees. They don’t just have a room of cash like Scrooge McDuck.
You’re making the assumption that these blue collar employees are less smart than you, or easily manipulated. This is elitist and is not true. Most of them are probably older than you and more experienced in the real world. They probably understand that they don’t need to pick a group of people to hate, and they’re probably not driven by jealousy.
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u/alexblablabla1123 1h ago
Well they need something to go on. Used to be religion, opiate for the masses as said.
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u/Financial-Recover409 11h ago
45 years of 'government bad, hard work fix all' messaging will do that to some (many) people.