r/Edmonton 1d ago

General Petition to include Arc card into Google/iphone wallet

I’m just wondering now with the tap-as-you-go feature with credit/debit card, isn’t there an efficient way where instead the arc card can also be integrated into our iPhone/Samsung wallet? It would also be more efficient for students with U-Pass.

Upvotes

37 comments sorted by

u/NeatZebra 1d ago

Vancouver and area is spending almost $500 million bucks to upgrade its existing system to a new one that will support wallet based cards.

They have to renew parts of it anyways, so the cost isn’t entirely the capability upgrade, since it is close to 20 years old, but it isn’t something that can be done for free if the system isn’t designed from the get go to implement.

u/Rosetown 1d ago

It’s so very Edmonton for a system to take so long to implement that it’s already out of date by the time it’s operational.

u/Professor_Checkmate 1d ago

If it costs that much would rather spend on a new hospital

u/Head_Cap5286 1d ago

Different governments fund these things

u/Brave_Jackfruit_6963 19h ago

That isnt to just go digital. Its a whole different fare system that will track origin and destination like other cities. Edmonton doesnt even use fare gates, so just going digital for payment isnt gonna be nearly as expensive.

u/NeatZebra 17h ago

The Vancouver system already tracks origin and destination.

u/Brave_Jackfruit_6963 16h ago

Thats umo not compass.

u/NeatZebra 13h ago

Compass does too. They just abandoned tap out on buses because they were unable to get it to operate properly at the time so they made all bus trips one zone instead of putting more money into the problem.

These systems sound deceptively easy until you try to get it to work for absolutely every use case/requirement. Then as your scope explodes you’re running around with every bus holding the full card database at all times with periodic refreshes at the garage or transit centres, running a data line and electricity to every permanent fare reader, counting on fast and reliable data backhaul, extending credit, or trying to communicate the limitations, each which frustrates a different user or adds significant cost.

u/PlutosGrasp 19h ago

The scanners are $3500 new. Google says 5000 scanners currently. So $17.5m for just the scanners. No installation or software to run it all. Still, $500m can’t be mostly dedicated to wallet app capability.

u/NeatZebra 17h ago

Getting the system to actually work, with all the back end systems is quite expensive. Hardware is the easy part these days.

The incremental feature to justify replacement instead of continued maintenance was wallet app capabilities.

u/Bulliwyf 1d ago

Iirc on how it works, they have to build a stand alone app that does the payment through that, and then petition Apple/Android to include it in the wallet, and then maintain it through every version of the OS and all its offshoots.

It’s not impossible (Toronto’s presto system exists) it’s just really expensive.

Honestly, let’s just be happy that we finally got debit/credit tap finally.

u/Datkif cyclist 23h ago

Other cities like Ottawa also use the presto systems IIRC so the overall cost to implementing Google/apple wallet is less of a burden on a single transit system compared to just Edmonton/Commuter buses

Plus your debit/credit card also has the same daily and monthly limits as the arc card, and you can apply for concessions on your non-arc cards

u/boroditsky 1d ago

I use Apple Pay, from my watch, on the bus all the time. What is the advantage of having an arc card, other than if you’re not paying for it out of your own pocket?

u/Agreeable-Influence8 1d ago

Subsidized riders can only participate through the arc card system.

u/boroditsky 1d ago

Gotcha.

u/Datkif cyclist 23h ago

You can add your personal debit/credit cards to the arc website and apply for concessions on them. Your personal cards also have the same daily/monthly limits as an arc card would as well.

The main down side I see is that it pre-authorizes $5 and takes $3 instead of just the $3, and you cannot ride with only $2 in your account (arc card will go negative) like on the arc card

u/Agreeable-Influence8 17h ago

Interesting- this has never been shared by CoE (I may be mistaken).

u/Datkif cyclist 17h ago

I remember reading it on the arc website at one point, and have seen ads on transit about making sure you use the same payment method every time for the capa

u/BestWithSnacks 1d ago

We finally got transit cards after decades of getting coins from the ticket machine at the train stations. Wallet integration is probably gonna take some time.

u/merve04 1d ago

Off topic, but I don’t understand the debit/credit payment. I so rarely use the train, but I had opened CC on Apple Pay and tapped the little freestanding pedestal. It charged my CC like 3 or 4 bucks, but how do you prove now you paid in the event security asks for ticket?

u/Datkif cyclist 23h ago

They have a reader that can scan whatever payment method you used. I've seen seen security do checks at Churchill and they verified the payment I used on my phone

u/SlitScan 1d ago

you open your cc history and show them the charge.

or they use a reader and see if theres a record of your card being tapped.

u/snkiz 17h ago

Interac is owned by all the banks. That's why it's so ubiquitous. It why we don't have 16 versions of venmo. It's also slow to change, All this NFC stuff was in Asia 20 years before Interac picked it up, and then the rollout was really being dragged along until Apple entered the market. The first real competition Interac had ever seen.

You'd think the 16 venmo's model would progress faster, but it's worse. Financial networks are things every one needs to agree on. They are a natural monopoly.

u/mikesmith929 1d ago

Dude it took them 25 years to get this technology. The iPhone/Samsung wallet is what 10 years old. Wait another 15 years we'll get there.

u/snkiz 20h ago

The wallets were introduced with Google/apple pay. There was no gap. In Toronto, Presto gained wallet functionality about the same time the reader started accepting bank/cc cards, about 10 years after it was installed.

I don't think they'll bother seeing as you can just tap your cc.

u/mikesmith929 18h ago

OK so I said 15 years and you say 10... let's split the difference and call it 12.5 years.

u/snkiz 18h ago

I'm saying it's not comparable. For a decade Presto worked with nothing but the presto card. Apple pay was the catalyst for it to accept Interac. Since Arc already works with interac and thru that pay apps spending the money to work with digital wallets independently isn't a priority. Afik you can even tie your payment card to your account, and it tracks to give you the best discount over the month.

u/WesternBlueberry1826 1d ago

Oh totally. Give it 20 years or so though.

u/feanturi 1d ago

u/Fabuzaz 1d ago

Yes you can use your mobile wallet to pay but currently there is no supported option to add your Arc card to a mobile wallet

u/sibulus 1d ago

Not to sure why we can’t, I was just in Toronto and there transit card can be added to your wallet and it is so much easier to use than our arc card

u/Brave_Jackfruit_6963 18h ago

Normally implementing an app or wallet integration would be trivial. But I think because arc has so many program subsidies with colleges and universities its gonna take awhile to integrate everything to one.

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

u/RAGEYeshy 1d ago

Having a card on your mobile wallet doesn't make the card itself stop working. Both would work.

u/Used-Psychology-1133 18h ago

Yes we should only build things that you would use.

u/Much_Guest_7195 1d ago

Why tap? I just ignore it and say I already just tapped.

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

u/Fabuzaz 1d ago

They have support for Google wallet/Apple pay. That happened the same time as credit cards were accepted. What they don't have is a way to add your Arc card to those digital wallets

u/Lavaine170 1d ago

I'm a dumbass.