Toxic relationships & abusive childhoods often end up training you to have 0 boundaries. For a long time, I wouldn't even realise I COULD set a boundary, or I would only realise what I even agreed to after the automatic "yeah sure I can do that!" fawn response.🦌🤦

Therapists/good friends often tell you "just say no!" Or "it's okay to say no" etc. - but learning to set boundaries is not that simple. It's like saying to a baby, "just walk!" "Walking is good and necessary!" It doesn't actually teach them, and if they tried, they wouldn't even be able to start.👶

First you gotta figure out what your legs are, then try crawling, then toddling, then walking!

Here's how I eventually learned:

1.🥚 Identify times you SHOULD/want to set boundaries, even if you can't. Try to notice how/when other people set boundaries.

"I really don't want to do that. I wish I could say so. I should have said no to this."

1. 🐣Start stating some boundaries, but feebly and with lots of apologies. Often retroactively, and often by text/email. Lie if it's easier.

"omg I'm so sorry, I actually think I might not be able to... after all!"

"Ugh I'm really sorry, I can't, I have to... [lie]"

3. 🐥Stop meaning the apologies.

"Sorry, I can't do that! Wish I could help."

"I don't have time, sorry."

4. 🦆Stop apologising.

"Nah, I don't feel comfortable doing that."

"Just to let you know, I'm not going."

"That doesn't work for me, I need..."

5. 🦢(optional but recommended) Interrupt people who are trying to, or have already, crossed your stated boundaries.

"Hey, I'm gonna have to stop you, I already said..."

"I told you no already; if you continue I'm going to have to leave."

"I understand that you are upset, but I'm afraid I cannot allow myself to be spoken to this way."

"Hey, you might have forgotten, but I did mean it when I said..."

Additional Tip: one way to practice if you're in an urban area is to wander around town, purposefully meet the eyes of those annoying sales/charity sign-ups people 🙋🤑 Stop walking to listen to their spiel, and then practice refusing anyway. No social consequences for refusing, even if you're rude!

These people will purposefully dodge, push and cross your boundaries, but they also don't really care if you eventually refuse (no matter what they pretend). I did direct sales for a few months, and the failure rate is 99% - they'll forget you within minutes, believe me. They also can't hold you to anything you agree to as long as you don't sign/pay, so when you inevitably fawn to start, you can backtrack and practice refusing anyway!

As a kid, everything that came out of my mouth was labeled wrong, stupid, ridiculous, whining, or just laughed at. I learned early on that keeping quiet was the only safe option that didn’t result in ridicule or physical punishment.

And as an adult this isn’t serving me well. I fear asking questions and asking for help, but it’s so much worse when expressing an opinion or setting a boundary with someone.

And in the past this has caused so much additional trauma. I was raped and never reported it because speaking out felt worse than the rape itself. I was bullied in school and it actually felt okay because punishment just for being myself felt normal. I was stuck in a job for years where I was taken advantage of and treated badly, but putting my foot down and standing up for myself felt impossible through the feelings of worthlessness. And I’d never challenge friends or partners because I was conditioned to put everyone else’s needs and opinions first.

And even though therapy is helping with this, it’s so hard to battle through this when online culture is so argumentative and full of black-and-white thinking. If I say something online (which I try to limit as much as possible), there’s bound to be a hateful, pushy person to trample on that opinion. Stuff like “I really enjoy X movie” results in “You like that piece of trash? Pathetic.” And that causes panic, self-doubt, and the compulsion to run away and never say anything ever again. I regularly uninstall all social media apps out of shame for saying things that are not shameful at all, just because it feels like the punishment is coming just for existing.

Also, I’ve noticed that when quiet people start testing the waters and having opinions, people don’t take too kindly to that. If you’re quiet for years, then speak up a little, some people suddenly react as if you’ve done something very wrong. IMO this is because keeping my mouth shut and not being disagreeable and not setting boundaries had attracted too many strong personalities who don’t like to be challenged, and other people who were downright abusive who can’t deal with someone else rocking the boat.

So...this turned into a messy, ranting post.

Does anyone else deal with this on a daily basis? Has anyone made progress with this?

I am happy that it is more acceptable to talk about trauma and mental health. And I know that things that look manageable from the outside can indeed be traumatizing. But I think by using words like trigger and trauma all the time, we also take away the severity of trauma-releated disorders.

Like trigger: I think it it is a difference if you have a full-on (c)ptsd flashback and fully forget who and where you are. That's part of an actual disease that we are all trying to heal from. It's different from someone who uses the word as a synonym to being annoyed by something.

Like my friend recently told me that her kid got traumatized from getting a vaccination. And I know getting vaccinations can be traumatizing, but it sounded like the kid just (understandably) hated it and got scared. How do you react to situations like these?

TLDR: My dog is teaching me how to establish boundaries... because hers are better than mine.

My (new rescue) dog has some issues with resource guarding over a particular toy. She LOVES this toy. She'll growl if it's anywhere near her and she has it and won't stop, even if no-one else is anywhere near said toy. As a result, I've had to take away said toy, and she can only have it if her sister is out. I didn't want to take her toy away, I wanted to teach her not to growl when she had the toy and the advice the vet gave was fucking MINDBLOWING in the weirdest way

Resource guarding is natural, and the vet said, the worst thing you can do is stop a dog from growling in that particular case because they'll STILL be resource guarding, they just won't be giving you or other dogs, warning... So instead of getting stiffens > growl warning > bark warning > bite, you'll miss all the warning signals and they'll go straight to bite because you've taught them it's not safe or desirable to warn you.

And uh... I have, multiple times, been accused to going straight to "bite" when I flip out. It's fine, totally fine, I'm fine, until I hit breaking-point and I then I go straight for the metaphorical jugular, often ending relationships as a result, I've been told, without warning. Maybe time for me to unlearn some stuff about not "growling"....

I started doing yoga recently, because it helps me with my dissociation and anxiety. I chose a class that's super low pressure, body positive, very relaxed and has a teacher who asks for permission to touch to fix your posture (yay).

Today I noticed an older lady in the row behind me recording me and taking photos of me in class (!) NOBODY called her out on it. Everyone would be doing the exercises and she would just sit there and point her phone at me. I was shocked. I suddenly couldn't pay attention, I was distracted and all I could think about was her. So after she did this for a while, I stood up, in the middle of the class, went to her and asked her respectfully to stop. She said it's just for her and it's fine. And I said I DON'T CARE. IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE TO ME, SO STOP. THANK YOU.

After the class she was giving me weird looks and I almost wanted to apologize to her, but I fricking didn't! It's not my responsibility to make her feel good about making me feel self-conscious and exploited. And if she doesn't like it, she can suck an egg!

I can't imagine ever doing that a year ago! I'm so proud of myself.

Edit: Whoa, I didn't expect this post to blow up like this. It's nice to know I was in the right. Thank you everyone for your replies, especially those who focus on the positive side of this interaction and celebrated my boundary setting with me. ♥️

I was getting a medical procedure done today and had spoken to all the medical staff who I'd interacted with to explain that they need to talk me through what's going on before they touch me. They had prepped me for the procedure, got the IV in , all ready to go and a new nurse walks in.

She immediately gets wayyyyy to close to my face and grabs my shoulder to say hello. I told her to stop touching me and she starts going on about how she'll have to touch me during the procedure. I felt unsafe. I didn't want to be there. My brain was racing on how to get out. She kept talking and I blurted out "I don't like how you are interacting with me , can someone else take your place?"

Much to my surprise , they just swapped out. I am very grateful to the staff and happy with myself.

I found out about boundaries, and the fact that I should have some, and that other people have them... and that I didn’t know how to recognize them and that I was constantly violating other people‘s boundaries because I didn’t have any...

This was in my mid-40s

I’m now 49 and still struggle with setting them, enforcing them...

I (40M) have tried to write about this but I usually get downvoted or my comments get deleted. I hope I’m allowed to talk about something that isn’t toxically positive.

I think I was neglected as an infant. Basically I learned not to go to my mother for anything because she either didn’t care or because I was terrified of her. She would have outbursts and say or do horrible things and then just pretend that it never happened. Keeping mother happy was a matter of survival, because when she was displeased with me it was like dying.

Now that I’m an adult … can someone please explain why being a people pleaser is bad?

im trying to get better and I’m on meds and do talk therapy but it’s SOOOO hard…

I can’t stop people pleasing because it doesn’t feel safe NOT to. I just don’t get why I should stop.

I heard the same old lines 1000 times - people won’t “really” like me or they won’t respect me. This feels like nonsense because in my experience people pleasing works. I’m a massive people pleaser and lots of people like me. They very noticeably like the facade I present, and when I lower it they tell me I should be myself. Nobody actually likes the real me, but thats precisely why I NEED to be this way.

I read a lot of stuff about how people stop people pleasing and then they lose friends and relationships. That makes total sense. If I stop doing it, then I’d lose friends, I’d have a more difficult relationship with family, work would be more painful…

It feels OBVIOUS to me that “stop people pleasing“ is wrong. It feels incredibly unsafe... like being told to take a walk off the edge of a cliff. My body just knows it.

Life has gone to a lot of trouble to teach me the lesson that survival is a matter of keeping others happy.

I get why “normal” people don’t need to, and I’m sure that if I was good enough then people would like me for who I am, but I’m NOT good enough, and I’ve learned that the very very hard way.

I’ve feel like I’ve been going in circles trying to “heal” for years and I get that I must be missing something. can someone please tell me what I’m doing wrong?

i can already guess that some very kind hearted people will want to tell me that I am good enough, and I appreciate the sentiment, but all that means is that YOU are a good person, not me.

...and I am allowed to treat different people differently. woah

My therapist told me this and its been an eye opener. Im still like, "what..really? But wouldn't that make my personality inconsistent then? If Im not treating everyone the exact same then theyre all going to have a different idea of me right?"

I have been terrified of this idea, that hypothetically if I were to treat people differently and they met and talked about me and came to the conclusion that Im different with all of them, that means I'm a liar, or deceitful, or manipulative, or creepy or weird. Or that Im a sociopath or something just playing different roles for a bad reason.

I have untreated family members with disgnosed Borderline personality disorder, undiagnosed sociopathy and alcoholism (this one is just obvious). I have watched my codependent (and possibly BPD mom) and other family placate and lie to people's faces and talk shit about them once theyre not around anymore.

Idk..at some point I got a belief in my mind that if Im inconsistent at all, with anyone, ever, then Im crazy or an evil liar like them. Which Im realizing now is pretty extreme and limiting.

I'd appreciate some ways to frame having different boundaries/relationships with ddifferent people because I know logically its healthy but it seems so exhausting and chaotic that a part of me doesnt want to try. Seems like a lot to manage.

Hi! If you're someone who has created strong boundaries with your parents (such as repeated requests to stop contacting/blocking), how did you fill that void of a 'stable permanent attachment' that can provide you with daily nurturing and reflection?

Because without that every moment feels like a battle: friends can only do too much (especially when we are too self vigilant if we are being too much), breakups do not feel like normal breakups but like survival struggles, never ending attachment to last person you loved, not to mention the shame around all of this. Do you also experience this constant struggle to keep yourself regulated while fighting with life everyday? with out a stable 'permanent' attachment than can provide you daily nurturing? It feels like normal wear and tear of life feels like survival-level fears that you need to regulate with so much intention everyday.

It’s so tiring. The more I learn to treat myself right, the more I notice most people don’t respect my boundaries. It shows up in normal interactions. When I address the issues gently without blames, they still deflect and shift blames back onto me. Funny how I used to want those people’s care and validation. Now I can see they aren’t capable and I’m not the problem.

All my life I’ve gotten along really well with people on the social fringes—people with extremely stigmatized hobbies, and the generally socially awkward and mentally ill. I’ve always prided myself in seeing the best in others and providing a judgment-free zone. And though I still consider lack of superficiality an important aspect of who I am and what I value about my personality, it’s only been fairly recently that I’ve realized how much of my “open-mindedness” and “empathy” resulted in not slamming the door on people when I seriously needed to, and how much I make excuses for others when that’s not my job.

I think that growing up with excoriating abuse gave me a seriously dulled danger response and warped standards of normalcy. On paper, I can identify unacceptable behavior and it’s easy to say that I wouldn’t put up with it, but in practice, when said garbage behavior is wrapped up in a bunch of other charming and sympathetic qualities, it’s far too instinctive for me to give the most optimistic and forgiving interpretations. I’m realizing that this is not really “kindness” or “open-mindedness”, this is just… letting people drag their dirty shoes through my life. The hardest lesson I’ve had to swallow is that the shitty way someone treats others is eventually going to be the way they’ll treat me, but my brain never wants to believe that.

My therapist has asked me to set 2 boundaries in my life before our next session and she told me those boundaries can be anything. But boundaries are so foreign to me and I just don’t even know how or where to begin to set them. Honestly, I keep trying to think of something in my life that bothers me enough to make it a thing… and I can’t think of anything. My therapist told me that setting boundaries doesn’t mean you are fighting, but I don’t know how to see it as something that’s peaceful because in my head, boundaries are only needed whenever someone is doing something that you don’t like/want/approve of… so setting a boundary means you have to stand in opposition and be willing to follow through with the consequences of someone not respecting that boundary… and I guess I just feel like “who am I to think my way is the right way?” Like when push comes to shove, why do I deserve to get what I want/need but they don’t get what they want/need?

It’s easier to just make other people happy than it is to fight about something that probably isn’t that big of a deal anyways. Right?

I don’t know. Boundaries are hard and I’m taking advice from anyone willing to share it.

My mom's usual examples are: "helping" me with something even when I tell her it's a one-person job, or serving me food when I specifically said that I don't want to eat. And then she expects me to be appreciative.

Yesterday was my and my partner's two year anniversary and we went on a really nice date. Even though I have agoraphobia really bad, I wasn't nervous. I even had a cocktail (called Pink Starburst) which is big for me because im extremely lightweight and rarely drink alcohol because being drunk usually worries me. I can't say no to sexual stuff even if I usually want to. When we got home after our date, I told my partner that I didn't want sex before he even asked, and I didn't want him to kiss me on the lips because it would be all to easy for things to go further, and he respected my boundaries. I have never said no to sex while drunk, so last night was my first because I knew i could trust my partner completely, and he was a total gentleman, even tucking me into bed so i could sleep. My partner is the most incredible man I've met, and he's helped me get better mentally and physically these last two years, supporting my mental health and therapy progress.

People always say: "no is a complete sentence." "setting boundaries is good for you and your mental health."

Yet whenever I try to set boundaries I get treated like shit, I get treated like I'm being the biggest bitch on the face of the planet. Whenever I say no or I am not comfortable with something I'm met with rolling eyes, sighs, or I'm challenged on it.

It's like as if I am the one that is being the problem and I'm the bad guy. I don't understand isn't it suppose to be a good thing? Yet anytime I try to do it it's like things would be better and easier if I just kept my mouth shut and went along with it.

What kind of fairy tale land are people living in where you get respected for sticking up for yourself and your comfort?

I'm just looking for reassurance that it's okay for me to reinforce this boundary and that I'm not being unreasonable.

the gifts are trinkets. whatever. it's just really triggering becsuse I asked her not to send me gifts and so it's just a reminder of all the times she disregarded my feelings. which is all the times. she has always been emotionally abusive and tried to convince me that my feelings are invalid.

is it unfair for me to reinforce this boundary with her? I know she just wants to connect but it's not really connecting with me if it's things I don't want, right?

Edit: is this love bombing?

My boyfriend has diagnosed CPTSD from severe childhood abuse, and also checks every box for fearful avoidance/disorganized attachment. When they’re triggered and flooded (which often revolves around feeling “in trouble”) they sometimes become what feels like a different person. I call this part of them the “bodyguard.” This part of them will do things like get angry when I cry or rapidly switch back and forth between pushing me away and begging for me not to leave several times within a few hours. When the “bodyguard” leaves, they are both very remorseful and often forget most or all of the episode.

I know writing it out sounds really bad, but they’re a wonderful partner outside of these few episodes and I’m not interested in breaking up at this time (although I’m talking about it with close friends regularly and trust their advice about if/when I’d need to leave). Please do not give me the advice to break up with them at this time.

What I know I need to do is put distance between myself and them when they’re too flooded to emotionally engage with me. My best friend with much more healed cptsd says they need to experience consequences and learn to self-soothe. I’m also afraid that leaving triggers an intense fear of abandonment and can ratchet things up. Has anyone had someone else successfully set compassionate boundaries? What did those boundaries include and how were they communicated?

My therapist told me this recently. It was quite a revelation.

I had been trying to change my parents.. calling them out on their gaslighting and abusive ways. I was essentially; expecting them to modify their behaviour once i highlighted it; and expressed that i wasnt ok with it. i thought this was setting boundaries but i ~think correct application is more subtle than that.

They never change, my parents... But I can control/temper my expectations and leave/end the phonecall when they cross my boundaries. i can explain why.... if i feel like it but i am not in any way obliged to do so.

this has eased my mind a lot.. i feel more secure now that i have initiated this shift in perception.

I tried communicating a sexual related boundary with someone I’ve been seeing on and off for a few years. I’ve tend to not speak up about things that bother me until I’m ready to run away. So I was proud of myself because I was bringing it up before it became a problem for me as a SA survivor.

I may not have communicated in the best way but I’m also proud that I did it. Even though he’s mad now and I’m not sure if we will continue. I’m trying my best to feel what I’m feeling rather than just reacting. I’ve been in IFS therapy for some time so also trying to acknowledge/care for my different parts reactions and feelings. This is hard and I have so many feeling about it all right now. It’s weird to feel both proud of yourself and so profoundly wounded at the same time.

Give me your favorite boundary setting phrases in response to subtle digs. Digs that aren’t hugely overtly offensive, but given history with a person, you know they are being passive aggressive. Often, these subtle digs that are handed out by people with whom you are forced to have interaction with, so “just cutting them out of your life” isn’t always an option. Please give me your favorite responses!

So... Point blank: people don't understand or care about your life story that you have CPTSD.

They look at you based on safety, relatability, connection. Can you inhabit them?

Red Flags* in us

1) no sense of self (people can't connect)

2) poor boundaries = unstable give and take

3) lack of eye contact/autistic social cues = can't maintain connection

4) fawning = inappropriate relational imbalance = makes people uncomfortable

5) Low confidence = low vibrational person. People like connecting to high vibrational people

Not to put a spotlight effect, because even if you don't have those "red flags". You can still have traits that degrade or don't sustain connection with others.

I'm not saying you're an actual red flag, I'm saying why you're perceived that way in relation to them.

You guys aren't actual red flags, just victims to this illness of CPTSD.