r/todayilearned 1d ago

TIL 2001: A Space Odyssey used a $750,000 rotating spacecraft set that was 38 feet across and spun at up to 3 mph. The camera rotated 360° with the set, making actors appear to walk up the walls and across the ceiling, and the cameras had to be specially modified to work upside down.

https://theasc.com/article/filming-2001-a-space-odyssey/
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u/rawspeghetti 1d ago

Kubrick was a genius for pioneering new ways of capturing film.

Famously for Barry Lyndon he wanted to shoot using natural candle light. Modern cameras weren't equipped to film in that setting so he borrowed specialized lenses from NASA. What we got was one of the most unique and beautifully shot movies of all time.

u/Cohibaluxe 1d ago edited 1d ago

He didn’t borrow the lenses from NASA. They were made for the Apollo program, yes, but Kubrick bought them from Zeiss himself. Zeiss made ten of the f/0.7 lenses in total; Carl Zeiss himself kept one, while six were sold to NASA and three to Kubrick.

edit: as u/idkartist3D pointed out, Carl Zeiss keeping one would be quite a violation of how time works. The wikipedia article I read was wrong. Should be "kept by Zeiss [the company]", not kept by the guy who died almost a century prior.

u/idkartist3D 1d ago

Small correction because I was curious and looked into it: It wasn't Zeiss himself, Carl Zeiss died in 1888 lol.

u/cynix 1d ago

So who kept one?

u/MGJohn-117 1d ago

The company Zeiss did. The company was rebranded from Carl Zeiss to just Zeiss in 2013.

u/Cohibaluxe 1d ago

Whoops. The Wikipedia article seems to have gotten that bit wrong! Looking at the source for that claim, it says "kept by Zeiss", not "kept by Carl Zeiss himself".. lol.

u/lattestcarrot159 1d ago

Himself is referring to Kubrick in their sentence.

u/idkartist3D 1d ago

"Carl Zeiss himself kept one"

u/lattestcarrot159 1d ago

Ahh, the second himself. My worst nemesis.

u/Notsurehowtoreact 1d ago

Interestingly this isn't the first instance of a rotating set. 

Kubrick didn't exactly pioneer this, he sought out help on how to do it from Stanley Donen who did something like it for Royal Wedding with Fred Astaire in 1951.

u/cbslinger 1d ago

That scene with Fred Astaire dancing up the walls and on the ceiling is still incredible.

u/Notsurehowtoreact 1d ago

Also Fred Astaire had to time his steps to the rotation, he's a legend. 

I remember being blown away the first time I saw it as a kid.

u/AgentElman 1d ago

The dancing in the Fred Astaire movies is great. I just wish the plots weren't so stupid. Almost everyone of them is a case of mistaken identity.

u/Maximus560 1d ago

For sure, but ginger rogers did everything he did backwards in high heels fwiw lol

u/hamstervideo 1d ago

I know this is a famous saying and all, but in the example we're exclusively talking about, he was dancing solo - Ginger Rogers did not do this particular feat, in any direction, in any kind of shoes.

u/mjh215 1d ago

I liked how both Breakin' movies had tribute scenes to Fred Astaire, Electric Boogaloo did the rotating set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ93GNHBHsE

u/Greene_Mr 1d ago

Douglas Fairbanks did it first; I am not fucking kidding, look it up

u/Notsurehowtoreact 1d ago

I knew there was someone first, (also another one inbetween as well I think?) so I was careful not to say Royal Wedding was first. However I honestly couldn't remember who. 

Thank you!!

It's such an awesome effect

ETA: I probably could have been more clear though as my initial comment probably does read like it implies the Royal Wedding version was first so I do appreciate the additional information. 

u/ScissorNightRam 1d ago

And one of the silliest practitioners of rotating sets - Shaun Micallef

https://youtu.be/8-ewKxGqy2g

u/Winstonsphobia 1d ago

In the article … “Kubrick consulted constantly with more than 30 technical experts and the results, with the possible exception of an “uptight” computer, are an accurate forecast of things to come.”

Turns out Kubrick wasn’t too far off with the uptight computers, too. I wonder what he’d think about today’s AI? He lived long enough to see the early stages of AI-type computer programs.

u/notfunat_parties 1d ago

Not sure how accurately this AI 'experiment' was reported upon, but it defintely has some 'Open the pod bay doors HAL' vibes to it.

u/Telescopeinthefuture 1d ago

This is fucking fascinating, thank you for sharing. Not sure about this particular experiment, but it seems to align with most other safety research I’ve come across.

u/rabbitwonker 1d ago

And the movie he was working on when he passed was titled “AI”

u/Greene_Mr 1d ago

He thought PAN AM was going to go to space.

u/SvedishFish 1d ago

We currently don't have anything close to a thinking AI. Kubrick would not be impressed by our modern search engine/chatbot hybrids.

u/leeman9224 1d ago

Hence the reason why there’s conspiracy theory saying moon landing was filmed by Kubrik

u/firelock_ny 1d ago

The faked moon landing was filmed by Kubrick. He was such a perfectionist he insisted on shooting it on location.

u/ketosoy 1d ago

This is my preferred version of events.

u/kwijibokwijibo 1d ago

We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because it's in Kubrick's contract

u/violenthectarez 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's a funny gag but as a Kubrick fan it's an annoying one because he notoriously hated filming on location. He filmed an entire Vietnam War movie in London less than 30km from his house.

u/ramriot 1d ago

The scope of technical skills & steps in this production is almost too vast for any one or ten articles to encompass. I keep an eye out for new tid-bits & almost weekly I see them.

For example, to get the models in space effects shots looking as perfect as possible Kubrick avoided using optical overlay techniques because each duplication for compositing would decrease detail.

Instead multiple takes were made of each element at esch different exposure onto film. Some were then processed for selection & testing. Only when the final selection of each element move, exposure etc was perfect would the team go back to the specific prime undeveloped element & then add the other elements to that film live one at a time. Which is why every 70mm frame is a prime exposure at full resolution.

Another is the Infographic elements, computers were nowhere near good enough, CRT tubes nowhere near bright enough & post addition via Chroma key was just not viable to match the rest of the scene.

Instead loops of 35, 16 & 8mm film were made using hand animation techniques & projected via rear projection screens into the shot. Unfortunately the projectors for this were not small or able to be inverted & still work. For shots of small screens that required rotation they instead used mini-projectors rigged with custom illuminators & a set of prisms in a weighted mechanical rig that allowed the camera to stay upright while the screen rotated with the scenery & the output stayed upright relative to the scene.

u/beachedwhale1945 1d ago

I saw one in an Adam Savage-Andy Weir interview. Adam Savage has a reproduction 2001 helmet, and when you stick your head inside, your breathing sounds exactly like in the film. At some point, Kubrick must have stuck his own head inside the helmet, heard how the breathing sounded, and then decided his film had to have that particular sound, not something similar the foley artists could make in post.

u/Digit00l 1d ago

Why wouldn't cameras work upside down?

u/Vyncent2 1d ago

The Super-Panavision 70 cameras used to shoot 2001 could not operate properly upside down because gravity interfered with the mechanical movement of the heavy 65mm film inside the magazines

the 65mm film used for 2001 was exceptionally wide, thick, and heavy.

Panavision engineering needed to completely overhaul the internal mechanical design of the 65mm film magazines, switching them from a system reliant on gravity to a system driven purely by motorized control

Excellent question by the way

u/Digit00l 1d ago

Thanks, proud to be an idiot at times, generally try to learn

u/Vyncent2 1d ago

Trying to learn, asking questions, that's the opposite of being an idiot, mate

u/coruscantruler 1d ago

We are all blessed to be idiots today if you’ve read this far :)

u/Kirza94 1d ago

Not sure about the cameras he used, but a lot of the time it's due to the film itself, the rollers that pass them through are usually shaped so they don't come loose (whilst upright) if you turn the camera upside down it won't run properly.

u/Digit00l 1d ago

Oh yeah, that would make sense

u/Ryoken0D 1d ago

It’s not uncommon for mechanical devices to only work properly one way.. generally a studio film camera would just have to deal with a little pan and tilt, but being upside down fully likely would cause issues with how the film gets pulled through the camera, additionally some parts of the camera might not be secured in such a way that it wouldn’t just fall off at extreme angles/upside down..

u/centosdude 1d ago

I wonder if humans will ever build such a structure in reality rather then in art. A spaceship with a centrifugal ring built into it or a ring shaped space station as depicted in the film. Seems like such a thing would be too expensive and difficult to engineer.

I was interested to learn from the article that the airlock in discovery was actually vertically built and flipped to appear horizontal to hide the wires on the actor. They did so many clever things with this production.

u/ccwithers 1d ago

I’m sure they’ll have to if we ever want to go further than the moon.

u/beachedwhale1945 1d ago

Probably not exactly like in the film: we’ve had experience with slip rings for electrical systems on spacecraft with rotating platforms (like Galileo), and they often develop problems over prolonged use. The larger they become, the more likely arcing and binding becomes, so it’s not likely viable for a while, though by the time we’re ready for such a mission several decades from now perhaps a solution will have presented itself.

But a spinning spacecraft in some form is intended for long-duration missions, such as a trip to Mars that will take several months one-way. We will want our astronauts to be able to work in the Martian gravity immediately after landing, so some form of artificial gravity is required. Until Solomon Epstein creates his drive, we can’t use thrust gravity, so rotational gravity is required.

One option I’ve seen proposed is to tether two spacecraft together, such as the manned spacecraft and the upper stage. After the final burn to intercept Mars, you could spin the spacecraft together around their common center of mass. There are some technical problems starting the spin and especially getting the spin going again on the way back, and you’d need significantly more delta-v to send a counterweight to Mars, but it’s certainly in the realm of possibility.

u/hamstervideo 1d ago

One option I’ve seen proposed is to tether two spacecraft together, such as the manned spacecraft and the upper stage. After the final burn to intercept Mars, you could spin the spacecraft together around their common center of mass. There are some technical problems starting the spin and especially getting the spin going again on the way back, and you’d need significantly more delta-v to send a counterweight to Mars, but it’s certainly in the realm of possibility.

I believe this is exactly how the ship in Project Hail Mary simulates gravity

u/willun 1d ago

Solomon Epstein

Unexpected expanse

u/Nayzo 1d ago

I took my dad to go see this during the 50th anniversary 70mm rerelease in 2018, and it was incredible. I'd seen it before on TV, and thought it was a bit boring. I firmly believe that this movie is best viewed in a theater with the big, booming music, to really appreciate how spectacular it is.

u/AnalFanatics 1d ago

And therein was “The Gravitron” amusement park ride brought into existence; and many hot-dogs and other “show food” was subsequently brought back up into existence as a result…

u/dontbenoseyplease 1d ago

One of the best movies to watch on Acid.

u/middaymoon 1d ago

You don't measure rotation in linear units such as miles per hour.

u/speaking_moose 1d ago

You would for a walking actor. Though the rotation would be a static value the speed by which the actor walks is dependant upon the radius

u/middaymoon 1d ago

Suppose that's fair. My comment was just an emotional reaction to a pet peeve of mine. Too much time reading crazy posts from flat earthers. 

u/speaking_moose 1d ago

Thank you for the nice reply. I am right there with you, most responses are based on one phrase they read, don't understand, but claim intellectual superiority. That was not your post though. I knew what you meant, I was just clarifying.

u/ofnuts 17h ago

There is even a scene where an actor is running.

u/Adjective-Noun-nnnn 1d ago

The title gave us the diameter so it's weird but fine.

u/middaymoon 1d ago

Haha right, got me there. 

u/No_Bluebird6873 1d ago

So he ripped of the true visionary, Christopher Nolan and his well known film Inception.

u/7and2make10 1d ago

Why couldn't camera work upside down

u/AutomaticGrape9263 1d ago

Cameras that could work upside down? Some kind of magic cameras??

u/Wezbob 1d ago edited 1d ago

Film in magazines/cameras was threaded through a series of rollers and sprocketed gears to maintain specific tension, and prevent overly tight turns that would ruin the film. The sprocketed gears were motorized and pulled the film, but it also went over rollers that weren't motorized. If you turned the camera upside down that film could just fall off the roller and the whole thing would eat itself pretty fast.

Source - was a AC who loaded film for a few years in the mid-90s.

u/AutomaticGrape9263 1d ago

You mean like every single camera before that involving the same effect? How amazing.

https://youtu.be/TYaD571yU_I?si=ZltABlyFaD1rWX7i&t=647

u/Wezbob 1d ago edited 1d ago

The lighter the film the less of a problem this is. Also varies from camera to camera. Panavision 65s shooting thick, heavy 65mm film needed to be modified so rollers were adapted to behave more like stabilizers (spring loaded tensioners) to keep it working inverted.

Sure the cameras used upside down before were likely chosen because they could. Kubrick chose to shoot Panavision 65, and at the time they couldn't. So he had to alter them.

You can turn a 1940s b&h 16mm upside down without an issue.

I've had an 1960s Arri get tilted barely more than sideways and unspool and crimp the film.

Not all cameras are the same...