r/newzealand 15h ago

Other Two former charter schools under microscope for growing debt, illegal board appointments

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/education/1292030/two-former-charter-schools-under-microscope-for-growing-debt-illegal-board-appointments
Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

u/barbarabar666 15h ago

Remember the plan

  1. Run it into the ground
  2. Claim it doesn't work

3 sell it to private providers/mates.

  1. Force the taxpayer to clean up and pay the bills .

profit

u/lawless-cactus 15h ago
  1. Reintroduce it as policy twenty years later and claim it will be "different this time!"

u/barbarabar666 15h ago

privatized profits, socialized losses

u/Fluffy-Trouble5955 15h ago

Nobody could have predicted this.......

u/ProudWrongdoer5389 Covid Vaccinated 15h ago

The government ran it into the ground LOL. They were fine before switching back to state

u/ParentPostLacksWang 14h ago

I put it to you that these are the same schools they were when they were formed as charter schools, and then were forced to convert into fully-funded state schools. The principles of accounting and budgeting didn’t change, the laws of supply and demand didn’t flip over, and we don’t have less kids in the area. If you can’t hack it as a state school, you never had the chops to be a school at all.

The government didn’t run them into the ground, the government gave them the same funding and framework as every other school - and the schools ran themselves into the ground. Because they were used to behaving badly, and frankly being shit. They were always shit. Because they were formed as scuffed charter schools, and never changed their character.

u/OldKiwiGirl 13h ago

No, they weren't.

u/jobbybob Part time Moehau 14h ago

And yet we are persisting with Charter Schools Mk2 under the currently ACT-National agreements.

Charter schools have been a failure elsewhere in the world yet somehow we are having a second go at it..

u/Bliss_Signal 13h ago

That's cult-like ideology for you.

u/Kokophelli 14h ago

"just because the rest of the world thinks something means its the opposite here. We are special". /s

u/jobbybob Part time Moehau 14h ago

Is that you David?

u/sauve_donkey 13h ago

Wealth taxes anyone?

u/HeinigerNZ 12h ago

These outfits have been state schools for nearly three times as long as they followed the initial Charter school model.

If they're failing now then just perhaps maybe it's not that initial model.

u/OldKiwiGirl 9h ago

State Schools or State Integrated Special Character? There is a difference.

u/Klein_Arnoster 14h ago

If you read the article, all the problems in the schools started when they were forced to become state schools by Labour.

u/JeffMcClintock 14h ago

I think the fraud started earlier. Paying themselves (under a different name) to run their own school for profit while keeping the school technically "not for profit".

u/Russell_W_H 13h ago

You made me read the whole article.

Just to call out your bullshit.

Do you mean that before they had to follow rules they didn't break them? That's bullshit. They had problems, they just weren't breaking rules, because they didn't have them.

Charter schools have never worked (to educate children). They are a way to funnel money to big business, while not educating children.

Anyone still advocating for them is uninformed or unintelligent or corrupt. And those are inclusive 'or's.

u/KAYO789 14h ago

So shock horror, when presented with a budget that all state schools have to live within, they simply couldn't? Somehow that's Labour's fault in your eyes?

u/sauve_donkey 13h ago

That's the conclusion you come to?

Charter schools were never a low-cost solution, but they filled a niche that state schools didn't, albeit at a higher cost per student, often students that state schools failed. So yeah making those students try to fit into a state schol budget was unlikely to lead to a better educational outcome for them. But their loss is acceptable collateral to be able to flip the bird to Seymour?

u/TantalisingTiramisu 12h ago

Thats the conclusion you've come to?

So what they needed to swap their board with religious zealots because the state schools failed them? You'd have to assume from that the failing was of the state to accept religious indoctrination.

Knowing that it was a failed experiment prior to its existence doesn't make those harmed by it collateral in flipping the bird to Seymour, it makes them victims of Seymour's bullshit pushing of pre failed systems.

Their loss is unacceptable, that's why everyone has always said it's bullshit. The obvious outcome occurring isn't some new occurrence when it was always known to be the end goal of the system.

u/throwaway384983547w 15h ago edited 14h ago

They were not under oversight or subject to the same rules as a state school- nobody knows if they were fine in the first place- but they were using government funding. That is the problem with charter schools in the US as they are schools for profit.

And in NZ they are mostly funded by redirecting tax dollars out of our state schools. Once they couldn't do that as easily, the problems arose.

u/OldKiwiGirl 13h ago

"They were not under oversight or subject to the same rules as a state school"

They aren't now.

u/davetenhave 14h ago

the charter school grift just comes apart so fast...

u/HeinigerNZ 12h ago

These have been State schools for nearly a decade.

u/OldKiwiGirl 9h ago

State Schools or State Integrated Special Character? There is a difference.

u/redmermaid1010 Mr Four Square 14h ago

Read this article and a couple of points i could see.

They pay management and licensing fees for material that the MoE thinks shouldn't be paid. Going back through the trail of companies associated with this fee it eventually lands at Crimson education. A right wing organisation associated with John Key.

The 2nd point is the MoE pays the staff and is then reimbursed by whoever runs the school. Whoever is running the school is defaulting on the reimbursement, so effectively the taxpayers are guaranteeing these schools.

They are a rort from go to whoa!

u/Historical-Guide-242 14h ago edited 14h ago

They pay management and licensing fees for material that the MoE thinks shouldn't be paid. Going back through the trail of companies associated with this fee it eventually lands at Crimson education. A right wing organisation associated with John Key.

Ah, no. Villa Education Trust has nothing to do with Crimson Education. From the article:

A year later, in May 2025, Being AI sold its education business to Crimson Education and RNZ understands both schools cancelled their management services contracts with Being AI prior to the sale.

The payments for the syllabus would have been for Dweck's PBL programmes, which again have nothing to do with Crimson Education.

u/JeffMcClintock 14h ago

so what exactly is the "conflict of interest"?

u/Historical-Guide-242 13h ago edited 12h ago

so what exactly is the "conflict of interest"?

There are two there TBH. One relating to the IP payments to the previous owner and one relating to a contractor responsible for the school's finances. Neither have anything to do with Crimson.

u/BlacksmithNZ 8h ago

I had not heard of Carol Dweck before, but some red flags there

She is in her words 'a superhuman who created a life-changing book just for you! I teach you how to cultivate and maintain a growth mindset' that somehow makes education better.

Her own research that shows that 'being positive' is just great, but everybody else trying to replicate the research finds it is not that simple. In fact her theory just doesn't hold

The fact that they were paying $1k a week for the 'secret of success' style thinking, is very clear sign of 'woo'

u/AcrylicMessiah 14h ago

When you want alternative education for your children, you gotta put up with alternative and often substandard management. These outfits are a complete joke and I feel sorry for the kids forced into them.

State schools work for almost all kids. A small minority might need specialist education but large open schools teach kids about community and acceptance, not sheltering them from the 'wrong kind of people'.

Let charter schools fail. They're a sucky idea for sucky people.

u/Okaringer 14h ago

Act has had a titanically outsized influence on education compared to the votes they got. All of this blatant corruption with no real mandate to do so by the public.

u/night_dude 14h ago

Employment relations too. Its because the Nat caucus largely support their policies ideologically, but know they can't campaign on them because they suck.

u/Ancient_Complex 14h ago

Charter schools are just a way to scrape public money in private pockets. Scamanonics-001.

u/LycraJafa 8h ago

$50k invoice for "intellectual property"

Charter school for fraud.

u/Formal_Professor5461 14h ago

What a surprise says nobody with a brain.

u/BlueLizardSpaceship 14h ago

It's like no single agency is accountable...

u/OldKiwiGirl 9h ago

Well, they aren’t, not with the previous incarnation of Charter Schools and definitely not with the current incarnation.

u/Big_Attention7227 14h ago edited 2h ago

Yet another purposeful failure by David Seymour ( paedophile enabler). It costs more per head than public school It has no oversight or monitoring by govt yet it is paid for by taxpayers It's a proven failed model from the past It once again smells like another corrupt Seymour project. This guy everything he touches fails.

u/redmermaid1010 Mr Four Square 14h ago

The article states only 40% of pupils are attending the school.

Where are Seymours truancy officers when you need them?

u/JeffMcClintock 14h ago

chasing poor kids

u/redmermaid1010 Mr Four Square 13h ago

Exactly and in the mean time airports are full of kids jetting off to Australia, Hawaii, etc in the pre and post holiday periods.

u/Significant_Glass988 10h ago

Colour me surprised

u/HeinigerNZ 12h ago

"two former charter schools...which have been state schools for eight years"

u/OldKiwiGirl 9h ago

State Schools or State Integrated Special Character? There is a difference.

u/MikeOxlong____69 14h ago

Lol @ people here acting like normal public schools don't have these problems.

u/KahuTheKiwi 13h ago

Can you link to any sources that match your unsubstantiated claims?

u/MikeOxlong____69 11h ago

Here's a roughly 90 page document of schools currently under statutory intervention. It's not hard to find.

https://web-assets.education.govt.nz/s3fs-public/2025-06/1344902%20Appendix%20B.pdf?VersionId=tvUpQg0RWgRKKBBrlks5mWYQHTcWO

u/Ohhcrumbs 13h ago

This is all freely available info from the ERO website.

You can see what schools have statutory management involved.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against charter schools, but yeah lost of standard public schools have significant problems too. Its the nature of electing school boards from the local community.

u/OldKiwiGirl 9h ago

Normal public schools don’t have this problem

payments to third parties for management services and for intellectual property rights related to the schools' curriculums