r/nba • u/ToronoRapture • 1d ago
Highlight [Highlights] Michael Jordan drops 45 on the Nets after Kenyon Martin tells him mid-game that he has a bad back (2001).
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u/Bside_Opi 1d ago
Footwork was beating their ass.
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u/iFinesseThePlugg Knicks 1d ago edited 19h ago
Friendly reminder Jordan averaged 25 PPG that year before he got injured
Same PPG as Kobe
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u/decoy-octopus 1d ago
25 in that era is like 29 now.
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u/Frankaragatan 1d ago
The team points league average that season was 95.5
Last season it was 115.6
That's ×1.21
Rough estimation but a 25 ppg that season would be 30.3 in the most recent season
Jordan averaged 22.9 that year, all things being equal that would be about 27.7 in today's current pace.
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u/toggl3d 23h ago
Doing math like this would cause Iverson to average 38 today.
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u/samurairocketshark Suns 22h ago
He would but he would also get hunted on defense constantly today
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u/Cute-Illustrator-862 Toronto Huskies 16h ago
They said the same shit about Brunson
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u/samurairocketshark Suns 15h ago
Brunson is a way better passer and point guard. Also thicker so skinnier players can't exactly bully him all the time. Iverson was a shooting guard in a point guard's body
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u/SoaplessTitanic Celtics 15h ago
AI was also averaging ~40% from the field during the seasons MJ was on the wizards
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u/YouWereBrained Thunder 1d ago
Yeah, but he was doing it at 38-39.
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u/profmcstabbins Hawks 1d ago
It always cracks me up that people say Jordan sucked during the Wizard years. The team was terrible. And sure he wasn't jordan of the 90s, he was still really good. Especially for someone that age that had taken time off
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u/pistofernandez 21h ago
It's cause they didn't saw it, numbers weren't the same, style wasn't exactly the tongue wagging Goat but still great
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u/TheVegetaPinkShirt 16h ago
Yep, this. It's becoming more and more apparent to me the average age of the nba fan today. You can tell when someone's just looking at box score numbers and wasnt actually watching the games. Some of the takes I see getting upvoted these days are wild
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u/Financial-Most5372 23h ago
Which would be like 41-42 of today's given nutrition, physio and other recovery advancements.
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u/RomaHappens 1d ago
I honestly feel like 25 back then was like 32 nowadays. A lot of players average above 30 which back then was unimaginable.
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u/SoaplessTitanic Celtics 15h ago
I feel like all the memes about the wizards years make people forget or not realize that MJ was still a great scorer during those two seasons. He just wasn’t nearly as good as his prime obviously, plus scoring inflation warps his stats a bit. The average team was scoring 95 points back then vs ~115 now. Jordan was still 9th in PPG in 2001-02, which was the season he turned 39 and also his first season back in the league after taking three full seasons off
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u/silly-little-billy Raptors 1d ago
Bruh, his footwork was godly
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u/ToronoRapture 1d ago
Before Michael Jordan torched the Nets for 45 points -- including 22 straight Monday in Washington -- Martin admitted to him that he had a sore back. Jordan claimed he immediately pounced.
"I don't think he wants to tell me that," Jordan said. "I started attacking from that point on."
Coming off a 51-point game and a six-pointer before that, Jordan made 16 of 32 shots and 12 of 13 free throws with 10 rebounds and seven assists. He scored the last 10 points of the first half and the first 12 of the third quarter, single-handedly accounting for a 19-3 run that put Washington ahead 56-45. The Nets never got closer than nine.
Nets coach Byron Scott: "That wasn't very smart. You're telling a guy who's an assassin that, `I'm hurt.' And now he's really going to go after you. First of all, you don't want him to know you're hurt. You never tell a guy that, especially Michael Jordan."
Martin said the back problem just came up in some on-court chatter.
"He was like, `I'm 38. You're letting a 38-year-old man do this to you?' " Martin said. "I said, `I'm 24 with a bad back.' I didn't care. He ain't going to (have) mercy on me. I don't expect it."
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u/OkEase1151 Bulls 1d ago
“Coming off a 51-point game”
On 12/29/01, wizards beat the hornets 107-90, Jordan had 51 pts, 7 reb, 4 ast, 3 stl
12/31 is the game in the vid vs the nets, Jordan drops 45 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 3 stl in another win (98-76)
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u/Willing-Stay-3498 1d ago
I love how he just get to his spots no extra dribbles
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u/pm-me-nice-lips 1d ago
Also stands out how we don’t see so much of the modern day carry type of dribbling with hands on the side and completely under the ball…plus no 3rd or 4th step, no rip thru solely to draw a “shooting foul”, defenders are able to close out and contest shots instead of having to worry about getting kicked by the shooter or being in their “landing zone”, etc.
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u/Gamesgtd Magic 1d ago
When Jordan started in the league that type of dribbling would've been called a carry. So it'd only natural that he never developed that type of style. It wasn't until Iverson came into the league did that started to not be called.
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u/Winter_Swan5104 1d ago edited 23h ago
If anyone here watched a classic 70s game they’ll be appalled at what was called a carry. Palming. Etc. Players didn’t even understand what the refs were on.
It was almost called like a baseball balk rule. “You didn’t continue on the path and faked out the defender, no fair!”
edit: just pointing out how youths are like “todays players would cook old players” like humans evolved or something. Today’s players won’t be able to play their game with those rules. Also shoe tech. Old canvas shoes didn’t offer much protection. People were more careful like they are with bare feet. I would like to see a barefoot basketball game now, I bet it looks more like how people moved in the 60s.
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u/Breal3030 23h ago
There's a very cool YouTube video from a channel called something like NBA historian that focuses on the changes in dribbling.
It shows a bunch of cool, old like, training videos from older NBA players that demonstrates just how talented and serious they were about their craft. To me, it basically answers any questions about whether the older NBA players would have been able to adapt to the modern ref calls.
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u/BlueString94 Kings 23h ago
I’d much prefer that to what we have today.
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u/samurairocketshark Suns 22h ago
I think current set of rules is fine if call obvious travels which they refuse to do. I don’t mind ambiguous enforcement of dribble moves but the straight up like 4-7 steps guys consistently get away with is crazy
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u/Winter_Swan5104 8h ago
I can’t get over the carry crossover that perhaps Durant popularized. It looks like picking the ball up crossing it over and then dropping it. It goes against the spirit of the game. Similar to the bizarrely allowed double step back.
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u/samurairocketshark Suns 8h ago
Yeah the cupping the ball dribble moves are pretty weak as well, it's just protecting the ball without dribbling that the defender can't do anything about. I don't mind the Iverson crossover stuff but when the cupping is just a response to any defender getting close that its whack
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u/Gamesgtd Magic 1d ago
The rules were heavily enforced. The rules on dribbling haven’t changed in the rule book. What has changed is what the refs interpret those rules as.
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u/Robinsonirish Finland 1d ago
One thing I feel people complain about and lump in with those other things you mentioned, that we didn't complain about back then - is baiting the defender into the air. People were always jumping unnaturally into the defender when they got them in the air with the bait, Jordan even does it in the video. It requires discipline from the defender not to fall for the bait, and skill by the offensive player to do it.
People here also for some reason complain about taking charges, which back then was seen solely as an intelligent play, requires speed and good positioning. It gets confused with flopping too often, just like baiting the defender into the air and jumping into them gets called unnatural bullshit movement, when it's just good offense.
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u/Winter_Swan5104 1d ago
Jordan didn’t appear to jump 3 feet into the player. Keith Van Horn legitimately got pump faked and jumped into Jordan. Jordan did try to convert the and 1.
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u/gedbybee Spurs 1d ago
There’s a difference between charges and flops tho.
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u/Robinsonirish Finland 1d ago
Yes, and my point is that people quite often can't, won't, or will differentiate between the two here.
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u/gedbybee Spurs 1d ago
Oh people are dumb. Most people don’t actually understand winning basketball, or basketball in general. They just see ball go in hole and love that.
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u/RomaHappens 1d ago
I once asked why the NBA never puts up older games on some side channel to make extra money and get people involved in the game, both old fans and newer generations watching with them. They have so much good material locked away for no reason.
Someone responded with "because basketball became a clownshow and they don't want people to see what it once was" and I was like "that's the dumbes.... oh"
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u/perculaessss 1d ago
I don't know about a clownshow, but it does feel like an altogether different sport, like going from rugby to American football.
You can watch an old 90s football (soccer) match and, compared to nowadays, the only real difference is that players run more now in defence, but it's clearly the same sport with the same "spirit".
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u/Stellewind Warriors 1d ago edited 1d ago
One of my favorite part of MJ’s game is how he always keeps things simple. No triple threat for 10 seconds trying to test how defender react. No dribbling for 10 seconds while the other 8 players just waiting on the side. He gets the ball and it’s either a shot or a pass within like 5 seconds, he always keeps the flow of the game smooth and uninterrupted.
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u/BigBossShadow 1d ago
Thats really what puts MJ in a different skill level for me, from guys like Harden and Irving. Discounting physical attributes. Those guys and most modern players, go into this one on one mode where they "break down" their defender. And do all these dribbles.
MJ never did that, and yet he was more effective
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u/livefreeordont 76ers 23h ago
Kawhi or KD are more similar to MJ in the half court in that they can just rise over people
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u/Rezrov_ Raptors 22h ago
The Harden million-tweens is a bad habit that's inspired a generation of bad habits.
It's easier to break someone down before the dribble. Pump fakes and jabs are super easy and effective. It took KD a while to figure out that conserving his dribbles and his energy was more effective and efficient.
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u/Stellewind Warriors 20h ago edited 20h ago
The brevity of actions also keeps him harder to be figured out by defenders.
Players like Harden don't realize that, when you are doing your cool dribble combos, your defenders are also studying you, the more you do the dribbles, the more they get to know your rhythm.
I suspect this is one of the reasons Harden's performance often fall off soo bad in later part of playoff series and in clutch time. The defenders just naturally get better at defending him the longer the series goes, they get to know him too well after defending the same thing hundreds of times in the same series. You can't cook elite defenders using the same move too many times without them picking up tricks and nuances.
In MJ's second 3peats, he even did a lot of off ball scoring in early part of the game. Just your regular catch and shoots, jab step and shoot, that kind of stuff. So when he turned up the intensity and pulled out the iso moves in later part of the game, the defender would often mentally got caught off guard.
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u/ImperialSympathizer Bucks 1d ago
Wow he doesn't look nearly as washed here as I remembered
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 1d ago
Wizards Jordan is mostly remembered for what he did post-injury whereas he was dragging the Wizards to a pretty respectable record prior to it.
The roster moves he made were still...not good but it was easier to stomach giving up Rip Hamilton when Washington seemed poised for the postseason
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u/magnusarin Pistons 1d ago
Thank MJ! But seriously, Jordan at that time was in the same boat as LeBron a couple of years ago. Still elite players but the margin for error was smaller due to injuries and a slight slow down
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u/Ok_Chest_1203 [DEN] Nikola Jokić 1d ago
When he first returned, he was slightly washed, however, as the season progressed he was turning it up until his injury. The last 10 games before he tore his meniscus he was averaging like 30 ppg. The wizards that won 19 games the year prior were the 4 seed at the time he got injured.
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u/321AverageJoestar 18h ago
38 yrs old MJ was leading the MVP candidates over Kobe, T-Mac, Shaq, Iverson, KG, Duncan which was extremely crazy up until he got injured.
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u/carasc5 1d ago
He was an mvp candidate before he got hurt.
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u/321AverageJoestar 18h ago
Not just an MVP candidate but he was leading the MVP list before he got hurt
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u/admiral_aubrey 1d ago
As with a lot of late career legends, he could turn it up some nights and look awesome. But he couldn't keep it up across 82 games, and there were plenty of down nights.
His first year back with the Wiz, he had 5 games scoring 40+. He also had 24 games scoring under 20 (of 60 played).
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u/OtherwiseMoose8257 1d ago
60 played at that age and after 2 whole years out is already crazy dedication
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u/inefekt Australia 1d ago
Three whole years out...he was retired for the 99, 00 & 01 seasons. He also was dealing with a bad knee, the same one he further injured later in the season. He was getting pain killers before each game or cortisone injections, can't remember exactly. Plus he had broken ribs thanks to Ron Artest. That three years retired is huge because think about all the recently retired pro athletes you see, a lot of them gain lots of weight, have lost much of their fitness because they're no longer required to stick to strict diets, keep a workout regime, practice and play full intensity pro sports every other night. It doesn't take a lot for them to regress back to the mean in terms of fitness. So he was dealing with that on top of everything else. Still dropped 30 in just his second game back. Dropped 40 in his 9th game back. Averaged 27+ his first ten games. Still averaged 25+ halfway through the season. Mid Jan the Wizards were the #4 seed.
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u/PsychologicalMusic94 1d ago
He probably would have had more left in the tank if he sat out some nights, skipped back to backs like some of today's older players do. But MJ would never.
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u/Pegsareus 1d ago
He took year breaks lmao.
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u/PsychologicalMusic94 20h ago
And if you've played sports before and are older then you know it's harder on the body taking long breaks versus continuing playing. You know how the saying goes "You don't use it you lose it". He also played 80+ games 11 times. Who else doing that besides Robert Parish and Stockton? Not many.
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u/GangstaWaffles 1d ago
It was the last knee injury he had that slowed him down to just 20ppg. He wasn't really the same after that injury
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u/sugarklay Lakers 1d ago
Fun story from The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons:
Jordan’s opponents learned to leave him alone by the mid-nineties, leading to a phenomenon unlike anything else we’ve witnessed before or since: Michael became basketball’s version of a sleeping tiger. In a league full of smack-talkers, chest-thumpers and yappers, incredibly, he remained completely off-limits. Even during the summer of 2001, when Jordan was running the Wizards but reportedly mulling a comeback, a slew of NBA teams voyaged to Los Angeles to watch a few California prospects work out. Jordan was there. So was L.A. native Paul Pierce, who spent a little time with Jordan because of his friendship with Chicago native (and then-Pierce teammate) Antoine Walker. At some point, Pierce started talking smack to MJ. You better not come back. This is our league now. We don’t want to embarrass you. That kind of stuff. Jordan nodded happily with one of those “Okay, okay, just wait” faces, finally saying, “When’s our first game against you guys? I’m gonna make it a point to drop 40 on you.” You could almost imagine Jordan pulling out a piece of paper and adding Pierce’s name to the list of Guys Whose Butts Need to Be Kicked. Of course, Pierce’s coach at the time (Jim O’Brien) overheard the running exchange and quickly pulled Pierce away, imploring his star, “Never talk to him. You hear me? That’s the one guy you don’t talk smack to!” And this was when Jordan had been retired for three full years. Three! Even then, at thirty-nine years old, a current NBA coach considered him a viable threat and someone who shouldn’t be angered under any circumstances.
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u/mr_chub Warriors 1d ago
Man, imagine MJ with 20 years worth of medical advancement
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u/Ok_Chest_1203 [DEN] Nikola Jokić 1d ago
Just imagine if he didn't tear his meniscus. The wizards were the 4 seed at the time he did and he was regaining his old form slowly as the season progressed. The east was also the weakest it had ever been during this time period so if he hadn't tore his meniscus I really think he could've led the wizards to a deep playoff run.
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u/ContinuingAnyway 1d ago
Imagine him being allowed to carry and travel, would be unstoppable today lmfao
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u/matthewrenn Lakers 1d ago
I was hitting all these shots today in the driveway , it was beautiful...i was thinking of MJ the whole time.
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u/Big_Arrival_626 1d ago
Yep. Today's kids practice SGA flops in the driveway. The game has changed, and not for the better.
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u/ImpressivePeach7442 1d ago
This Michael Jordan guy is pretty good. His playstyle reminds me of Kobe Bryant
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u/NobrainNoProblem 1d ago
Kobe with better shot selection
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u/Jaywicksands Lakers 21h ago
and a willing passer
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u/Top-Camera1919 20h ago
Jordan’s passing is underrated. I watched the 91 finals recently and his ability to find an open man is elite.
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u/ContinuingAnyway 1d ago
No bullshit dribbles or carrying, just gets it done. So insane that he gets to his spots regardless
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u/longtimenoisy 24 1d ago
Too smooth. And you notice there’s none of that step through shit that we see today where they blatantly lift their pivot before taking the shot.
I know Kobe copied him, but I think Jordan had more balance, more body control. It’s so good to watch.
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u/zeroxray Vancouver Grizzlies 1d ago
I was actually thinking why didn't Kobe emulate mjs wizards years more when he got older
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u/ValjeanLucPicard 1d ago
I seriously think they should consider the step through a travel from a stopped position. I get it for a layup which is what allows the two steps because there is momentum. But if you stopped and are juking, the pivot foot should be required to leave the ground last (or same time). The offensive player already has too much of an advantage and the step through is just icing on the cake.
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u/Fa1lenSpace Timberwolves 1d ago
Anyone that watched Jordan knows he’s the greatest, plain and simple
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u/PassageMediocre1020 1d ago
Being a Wizards fan atp must have been so freaking cool
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u/violagoyf Wizards 1d ago
It was a circus: entertaining but also kind of a shit show.
It was cool having him play but the team/team culture were kind of a mess--and we didn't even know until later how much of a mess it actually was (Jordan bullying Kwame Brown, etc.).
There was also kind of a surreal vibe to it. Sure, he was still pretty good, but I remember wondering the long-term plan was. I'm not sure they knew either.
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u/brahmyak 1d ago
I still dont understand how people are amazed by lebrons longevitiy but they dont even talk about this guy. He quit basketball two times, he was smoking cigars and drinking alcohol but still he managed to get back and do this
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u/AbleCap5222 1d ago
I watched MJ in those final years with the Wizards and he was clearly old and diminished physically - but so many if his moves are just unguardable if you hit them
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u/Winter_Economist9828 23h ago
He plays like modern Kawhi. No wasted movement, lots of bully ball and smooth.
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u/Top-Camera1919 20h ago
Kawhi is the closest player to second 3 peat Jordan. Not saying he’s as good, just that their play style are the most similar
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u/Winter_Economist9828 19h ago
As a Spurs fan, you could see it in 2014. There's a reason Balmer had no qualms breaking all the rules to sign Kawhi. I'm still convinced the Spurs with Kawhi and Aldridge could have beat the Warriors.
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u/321AverageJoestar 18h ago
Kawhi is slow af and also can't move off ball like MJ
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u/NefariousNeezy 76ers 1d ago
Why tf would you talk trash against MJ 😂
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u/Get_your_grape_juice Celtics 1d ago
I have a theory that at sone point, opposing players knew full well he’d torch them, but they just wanted to experience a Jordan game up close.
I’m kinda joking, but also kinda not, ya know?
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u/Goddyex 1d ago
If you can't trash talk an old Jordan while you're in your prime, then I don't know when lol.
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u/Saitsuofleaves 12h ago
The answer to that is never, unless your name is Larry Bird because his shit talk game was too immaculate.
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u/LemonCool2023 Wizards 1d ago
This video has me thinking, who is the “Mr Fundamental” of each position in basketball?
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u/Bern1tDowwwn 1d ago
It was a lot of fun to watch Wizards MJ but he just wasn’t the same player as the Bulls version. Something about the way his hips moved or something just made me feel the passage of time. I was such a huge fan through the 90’s and it was one of my first “time catches up” realizations.
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u/Fa1lenSpace Timberwolves 1d ago
Even when he came from his first retirement in ‘95, he wasn’t quite the same guy he used to be. First 3 peat MJ was legitimately godlike.
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u/EGarrett28 1d ago
It's harder to crouch down and explode upward when you're older. Your hips and core aren't as flexible or powerful. Source: Am older. Though maybe some of those special vitamins these days would help.
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u/MumrikDK 18h ago
Also, these are all dudes of way above average height. They're all dealing with back issues, and certainly at this age. Maybe the thighs and hips can do it, but the lumbar spine screams no! when they try.
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u/GladVeterinarian5120 1d ago
How does he make all those shots without falling down, flailing, and wildly grimacing? The man obviously does not understand proper basketball technique.
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u/beachbummeddd Knicks 1d ago
Lebron could never
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u/Pleasestoplyiiing 8h ago
Not make the playoffs in his 40's? Score under 10 like 5 times in a year?
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u/machogriz 1d ago
Why doesn’t he fall down after every shot??? Is something wrong with him?!? /s
Seriously though, even at this stage in his career could just dog walk anyone he wanted at any moment.
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u/rbizaare 1d ago
Watching this makes me realize how silky smooth he was during his years with the Wizards. The 2nd 3-peat MJ still had the explosiveness, albeit in spurts only, but the common denominator between the 2 versions were the perimeter J and post-up moves. The Wizards MJ utilized a lot of pump fakes and up-and-under, though.
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u/iheardthemetalclank Celtics 1d ago
Look, Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of all time. He came back and dominated on the Wizards after the Bulls and also played baseball. I loved watching Larry Bird, Shaq, Bill Russel, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, LeBron, but Jordan was always the best.
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u/SANTAAAA__I_know_him 1d ago
You know how sometimes players are about to go argue with a ref but their teammates/coaches pull them away to save them from a technical foul? I wonder if anyone ever did that to save their teammate from trash-talking to MJ.
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u/LeauxFi2 1d ago
The goat. Is he a high flyer at this point? No. And there still nothing you can do to stop him 😂
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u/EGarrett28 1d ago
I remember reading also that Jordan found Kenyon Martin tough to play against in those years because of his combination of length, strength and speed (and I assume ferocity), and Jordan gave Martin an autographed pair of his shoes after one game with an inscription like "thanks for the challenge."
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u/321AverageJoestar 18h ago
Nets had the best defense in the league, old ahh walking MJ still torched em, they say LeBron too big and too strong for Mike but MJ posting up 6'10 ft. 240 lbs Physical Kenyon Martin with ease, MJ's strength is underrated
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u/NotVerySmarts 23h ago
The other day there was a post about tje Williams sisters continuing to have forst round losses in their career comebacks, and a commenter said it was emberassing to see your heroes fail die to their ego. They used Michael Jordan on the Wizards as an example. I was like "Wizards Michael vould still put belt to ass when he wanted to."
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u/Hot-Distribution3826 21h ago
Absolutely what got old MJ predictably was health. His knees couldn’t hang after the 3 year layoff. So you would get a 20 game streak of dominance and then an injury, he couldn’t put together 75 to 80 games at 100% anymore. The Williams sisters specifically Serena is just washed up. She went from being uniquely physically dominant to now she’s using glp-1’s (not an insult she just promotes it and talks about using it) and also young girls who looked up to her are all lifting weights they’re are super swole and buff and the size and strength advantage Serena once had she no longer has. That’s way different.
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u/Pre-emptive 11h ago
Her husband is a board member of RO which produces that GLp1, so she has a little more than a vested interest.
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u/ReapYerSoul Bulls 1d ago
Even this version of MJ would have been better than what the Bulls were trotting out at this time. Fuck Reinsdorf forever and ever for that BS.
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u/Wise-Function653 23h ago
I swear the ball rarely hits the rim when he has a clean look. Swish or back rim bottom.
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u/Independent-Still-73 Hawks 1d ago
That's Kobe's game frame by frame
That is not how Jordan played pre suspension retirement, no one has ever played like that guy and probably never will.
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u/Gristle__McThornbody Lakers 1d ago
MJ would have done just fine in todays era(or anything post his retirement from the Bulltets). But not sure he would have won as many rings.
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u/inefekt Australia 1d ago
You can say that about just about any player. If circumstances are different, of course everything that flows from that will be different. But you don't know how different. You got the Spurs who just drafted at 4 and 3 pretty recently. A modern Jordan could have easily been drafted to the Spurs. And don't forget he would have also benefited from medical, recovery, training, skill & strategy advances to make him an even more refined version of the player he was. You don't think a better version of the young Jordan we saw wreck one of the greatest assembled teams in NBA history would have done a better job of willing his team to victory than Stephon Castle? OG MJ averaged 43ppg on 50% shooting against that juggernaut Celtics team. Castle averaged 14ppg on 37% shooting in the Finals. Swap out that more refined version of MJ for Castle and the Spurs are probably celebrating a championship....and then who knows how many after that.
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u/Knockknockerz Warriors 1d ago
Why did he leave Chicago? Serious question he was way before my time
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u/sugarklay Lakers 1d ago
Bulls management wanted to rebuild. Jordan said he would've run it back had they kept Pippen and Phil Jackson.
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u/inefekt Australia 1d ago
Bulls FO may have inadvertently fueled this long running GOAT debate cause if they did run it back and if they did win again (a shortened season in 99 would certainly have been beneficial to them) then 7 championships, 7 Finals MVPs and maybe even another regular season MVP would have absolutely shut the gate on any hint of a debate about who was the greatest. No sane person would even entertain that thought let alone express it out loud without being mercilessly mocked lol
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u/longtimenoisy 24 1d ago
The GM didn’t want Phil back among other players and so it was the last dance.
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u/Knockknockerz Warriors 1d ago
That gm was an idiot the team 3peated twice I would’ve went broke giving them everything they asked for
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u/Ok_Chest_1203 [DEN] Nikola Jokić 1d ago
Right? Who tf breaks up a team that just 3 peated to rebuild. Mf was smoking some of the stuff that nico smoked.
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u/TexasRoadhead West 1d ago
More like the owner was (still is) a cheap bastard who didn't want to pay Pippen, basically solidifying that the Bulls were going to rebuild which both MJ and Phil didn't want to be a part of. Plus they weren't going to bring back Rodman, Longley, or Kerr either
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u/siwelis10304 Heat 1d ago
Have you not seen the Last Dance documentary? You're in for a treat if you haven't.
The main reason they filmed that last Chicago season is because the GM Jerry Krause did not want Phil Jackson back after a clash of egos, strained contract negotiations, and Krause's desire to transition into a roster rebuild. Jordan said he'd retire if Phil wasn't coming back and the team was disbanded from there onwards.
I think the level of fame and stress took a toll on a lot of them.
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u/Knockknockerz Warriors 1d ago
Definitely will watch,I’ve always seen small clips like the famous Jordan I took that personally or when he laughed at Gary Payton when he said he gave Jordan problems which was hilarious to watch
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u/siwelis10304 Heat 1d ago
What are you waiting for lol
Jokes aside that GP bit was just filler for the doc to help paint pictures of the legacy. They faced off in 95/96 2 years before the last season so there's a lot more to it.
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u/TexasRoadhead West 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm tired of Krause being blamed for the Bulls blowing up. He had his faults and ego issues but the real problem was Reinsdorf not wanting to pay Pippen the contract he actually deserved, which then caused a domino effect with the rest of the team since it basically guaranteed a rebuild that both MJ and Phil didn't want to be a part of
Sure Krause saying that they weren't going to bring Phil back no matter what happens didn't help, but Jackson already was going to leave and had his mind set on taking a 1-2 year break back home to Montana. Plus players like Rodman, Longley, Kerr weren't coming back either since they were washed or too expensive
It's disgusting how Reinsdorf and MJ totally threw Krause under the bus in the last dance documentary, especially since he's a dead man who can't defend himself. And some of the psycho grudges that MJ holds against Krause to this day are stupid
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u/blackgallagher87 Bulls 1d ago
I do blame Krause for taking Jason Caffey in the 95 draft instead of the no-brainer pick of Michael Finley, a Chicago guy who would have greatly benefitted from playing behind Jordan and Pippen and would have been ready to lead the next core with him and Kukoc in 99 if Krause had taken him.
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u/CheeseOnKeyboard 1d ago
Why would jordan take advantage of someone who has a bad back? Lebro would never
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u/JusSayING_Mi 1d ago
Just image if he would have never took off all those years. If he would of came back after 4 years of hiatus boy he would of gave Koby and all them a shot of that chip win lose or draw Michael would of found a way to reach the gold mang
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u/LeftAire 1d ago
Kenyon Martin always talking shit he can't back up. What he said to Alonzo Mourning a few years (which was far more disrespectful given it was about Mourning's kidneys) after this makes me think he didn't respect established veterans as an younger player. He should've known Jordan would take that personally and show out in the game....
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u/SprayAggravating3462 15h ago
When people talk about MJ in Wizards, nobody comments that he was part owner of the team.
Strange.
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u/trav-senpai Kings 15h ago
Man 45 year old MJ looks just like his son Jimmy’s highlight tape. Exact same shot selection down to the pump fake fouls.
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u/Ajkrouse Washington Bullets 13h ago
I was the Washington Wizards ballboy in 2001 and distinctly remember this game.
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u/TyintheUniverse89 4h ago
Did the Monstars take these guys’ powers this game? Mike was going to work with no hard hat on them!
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