I visited Oradour Sur Glane in France aka The Martyred Village. 642 people were massacred by the Nazis and the village razed to the ground. After the war it was preserved as a monument to the fallen.
It was an intelligible sentence you failed to understand. "Just a lot less than those who don't" is an elliptical construction where the omitted words are recoverable from context. English does, in fact, permit this. Difficulty parsing a sentence is not evidence that the sentence is unintelligible. English is a language generally known for relying on context.
"It is not true that nobody understands, just that those who don't outnumber those who do"
I understand what you’re trying to say. I got the same feeling of one-upmanship when I read it and the emojis didn’t help. You’re not wrong but I suppose you just have to forgive them their ignorance, I don’t think they even understand what they’re doing.
I Live near Ouradour and we used to visit this place several times with school. There always was this weird atmosphere where kids are suddenly quiet and nobody dare to talk, like if it was disrespectful.
Interesting to visit but awful place, I hated it every time
Like how I equivocate the dark clouds rolling in with memory of past rainstorms? Because the barometric pressure has been plummeting since he regained power.
I visited some 25 years ago. It was one of the most powerfully emotional (and sad) places I have ever visited. I would highly recommend visiting if you ever have the chance.
They say what, 70 years, is a time long enough to have a whole generational history erased and allow revisionism and horrors from the past to appear as OK? Telling you, France is next in line.
Interesting chart I found on Twitter, which seems to go with the idea that it takes about 70 years to washout History from the population and doomed to repeat it.
It has to be difficult to love your country for the beautiful science, art and philosophy it gave to the world and at the same time hate what the ancestors did to so many people during so many wars.
Just because someone loves their country doesn’t mean they hate other countries. I love my family and yet somehow I do not hate others families or wish harm on them when I see them out and about in the park.
As a french I am ashamed to see Le Pen's RN so high in the polls and in the public opinion. I truly hope we can defeat these far right parties who forgot what their ideology led to. We have to fight them, vote against them, we won't let them win.
Well I saw Dachau KZ, was living in Karlsfeld long time ago. And really it was not transmitting anything. And in my humble opinion, It should and must let you feel the terrifying time. Otherwise its a kind of yeah seen it and now ? We shall Not forget the younger generation have no clue how dark times it was.
and to think that nowadays more and more people again start talking openly about that nazis were not the bad guys...god, i fucking hate populistic politics...
yeah, many turn this shit around and say its a "memorial of all victims" and in their twisted world view every ns soldier was a victim too...cant make up so much brain rot...
here in germany we even have an idiotic political nazi party with some of their leaders telling bullshit like that Hitler was political left (bcs Nazi is from "Nationalsozialist / national socialist" and everything social is left in their opinion) and thats one of severall arguments why political left is bad...if it were not real, you might think this is just satire for some film or british comedy...
For those not aware, most of the villagers were burned alive. The nazis rounded them up in the church and set it on fire. Horrible stuff happened there
One of the few things that I can give my ex-wife's parents credit for is for taking me here - I was a military analyst and it was one of those places that I wanted to 'feel'.
Down this road, on a summer day in 1944 . . . The soldiers came. Nobody lives here now. They stayed only a few hours. When they had gone, the community which had lived for a thousand years . . . was dead.
This is Oradour-sur-Glane, in France. The day the soldiers came, the people were gathered together. The men were taken to garages and barns, the women and children were led down this road . . . and they were driven . . . into this church. Here, they heard the firing as their men were shot. Then . . . they were killed too. A few weeks later, many of those who had done the killing were themselves dead, in battle.
They never rebuilt Oradour. Its ruins are a memorial. Its martyrdom stands for thousands upon thousands of other martyrdoms in Poland, in Russia, in Burma, in China, in a World at War.
Similar fate as Lidice (nowadays Czechia), a village that was literally razed to the ground, men executed, women and children sent to concentration camps.
All becouse the nazis mistakenly thought the village was helping paratroopers who assasinated Reinhard Heidrich.
the niece of one of the nazi spoke at a small audience about her family and how she experienced her grandfather. when he died she found out what he did. their family was angry because she speaks about this. it was very intensiv
I've visited twice since we vacation close to it. The atmosphere is incredibly heavy, both in the village and at the cemetary behind it. The memorial has a glass container that contains bone fragments of the victims, and I nearly burst into tears looking at that.
Last time I bought a book in the museum store, it contains eye witness accounts of that day, with photographs and all. It's one of the most horrific things I've ever read, and it really drove the horro of the situation home for me. I highly recommend reading it though if it interests anyone, it's called Oradour Sur Glane: A Vision of Horror. That we may never forget what these poor people had to endure.
A french historian was talking about the SS division who perpetrated this massacre. He explained that these men had spent most of the war in the Eastern front and had been sent to France to cool down and reinforce their ranks.
He describes that there had been around 6 similar massacres in France, and hundreds on the eastern front. Perpetrating such massacres was basically their full time job.
Yes, they used methods they were happy to use on the eastern front. It is terribly sad to hear, but what was mostly a one-off at Oradour happened in hundreds of villages on the eastern front...
Can someone confirm, or refute me, but the French movie named "Le Vieux Fusil" (the old shotgun), is loosely based on this massacre to set the vigilante plot? A must-watch French movie for sure.
You are correct. I remember that the filmmaker based it on his personal family story, and it was indeed about the atrocities committed by 2. SS-Panzer-Division “Das Reich” just after the Normandy landings. Not explicitly Oradour-sur-Glane.
The medieval twin castles Châteaux de Bruniquel used during the filming can be visited; it’s a beautiful view over a beautiful region.
Very similar story to Lidice, a village in Czechia, except that Lidice was completely razed. Only a memorial stands on the site of the original village.
Collective punishment for the assassination of a Nazi by partisan fighters... even though the village had nothing to do with the assassination.
The idiots these days who worship/emulate the _ _ _ is should be taken on a trip to visit and understand the horrific acts committed by the fucking scum.
My grandpa was in the résistance and came from a village very close to Oradour, when the news came in about the massacre, he was one of the first on site and participated in the excavation and subsequent burial of the dead.
And if that wasn't enough, he then linked up with the FFL troops and went as far as Berlin.
Suffice to say, he never spoke about the war, and especially not to his grandchildren, I only know about that from my parents who managed to get some info out. I even remember him getting incredibly angry at me when I brought my toy gun, even water pistols were out of the question.
21 out of 64 identified were put on trial eight years later. The commander could not face trial as he died in Normandy. The highest ranking survivor and the only identified volunteer from Alsace were executed, the others mostly got forced labor including two or three other Alsace natives that were forced into conscription.
21 were brought to trial. 7 German and 14 French nationals from Alsace.
2 were sentenced to death and the others for various prison sentences. The Germans had been imprisoned for some time and we're released due to time served.
One of the French nationals,
Louis Hoehlinger, came back to Bordeaux for the trial, having been a police inspector in Saigon (as it was at the time). Most of the French nationals voluntarily attended the court.
Of the 14 French nationals, 13 had been drafted into the SS and 1 was a volunteer (he was one of those sentenced to death).
Yeah apparently some french partisans killed some nazis and as revenge and punishment they razed the whole village to the ground and massacred the people
That was the excuse the Nazis used. No one from the actual town was involved in any resistance activities. It's thought that the Nazis mixed it up with Oradour sur Vayres who were active.
As far as i know the "mixing up" is another made up excuse, the nazis knew very well which village they were attacking, and it was fully prepared in advance. This makes the entire massacre even worse because they literally chose it out of hundreds of others, without any actually reason.
I recommend the revenge movie “Le Vieux Fusil” (1975 Robert Enrico - Music by François de Roubaix).
A masterpiece about a surgeon who seeks brutal revenge on SS soldiers after they savagely massacred the village and his family. It was inspired in part by the 1944 massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane.
Note the tramway station ceramic lettres (originally written Oradour sur Glane, of course), with the fallen off pannels they now ominously spell the word "ORAGE", storm in french. As far as i'm aware they have been like that for a very long time.
If it's recall correctly, this landmark is featured at the very beginning of the british 1970s documentary The World at War. It's a very gripping hook for a tremendous program.
"On June 10, 1944, just days after the Allied D-Day landings in Normandy, a company of the Nazi Waffen-SS surrounded the peaceful village.The Massacre: The soldiers ordered all inhabitants to assemble. The men were led into barns and garages, where they were shot in the legs before the structures were set on fire. The women and children were locked inside the village church, which was then suffocated with toxic smoke and set ablaze.The Victims: A total of 643 individuals—including 247 children and 240 women—were murdered in a single afternoon. Only a tiny handful of villagers managed to survive by hiding or escaping the burning buildings."
I just read a really wonderful book called The AliceNetwork by Kate Quinn and this was one of the central storylines. It’s historical fiction and it was a wonderful read. I would recommend it.
Terrible. But also not very known outside of Serbia was The Kragujevac massacre, one of the most brutal war crimes committed by Nazi Germany in occupied Serbia during World War II, resulting in the mass murder of nearly 3,000 innocent civilians.
Key Historical Facts
Date and Location: The mass shootings took place on October 21, 1941, in the town of Kragujevac and its surrounding villages.
The Pretext: The massacre was carried out as retaliation for a joint Partisan and Chetnik ambush that killed 10 and wounded 26 German soldiers near the village of Ljuljaci.
The Formula: The German military commander in Serbia applied the strict quota: 100 hostages shot for every killed German soldier, and 50 for every wounded soldier.
The Victims: German troops rounded up males between the ages of 16 and 60, including around 300 high school students taken directly from their classrooms, their teachers, and a group of young Romani shoeshine boys.
Historical Memory: The tragedy inspired the famous Serbian poet Desanka Maksimović to write the deeply moving poem "A Bloody Fairytale" (Krvava bajka).
The Memorial: The site of the execution is now the Šumarice Memorial Park, which preserves the mass graves and houses the "21st October" Museum.
But......but.....the internet told me that my history teachers lied to me in school and the whole world is in on the conspiracy of fearmongering because the holocaust never happened and the nazis were the good guys. Surely, this was built and destroyed after that point in time so they could use it to help legitimize the lies right? /s
Tragédie du passé.
Qui se répète encore sous d'autres formes.
Peut-être je me trompe mais je crois que les soldats qui on massacré c'est pauvre gens était ukrainien nazis ?
Non, c’était la seconde division Panzer Das Reich, composée majoritairement, outre d’allemands, d’alsaciens-mosellans. Les responsables étaient donc allemands, alsaciens volontaires et alsaciens forcés (les « malgré-nous »).
One day we'll be able to visit Gaza and see all the demolished homes, hospitals and schools of the Palestinian martyrs. Won't last long though. Israel in concert with Kushner et al will work hard to pave over the evidence of the genocide and replace it with homes and hotels. And that's the the world we live in.
Pff I remember coming here as a kid. We have been driving for like hours, I have been sleeping for the whole time and my parents stopped at that random village. I was so high on sleep I didn't understand where I was until hours after we left 😅
Is it worth reconstructing? I get the place being saved as a memorial but would be a good idea to make more homes and just keep a section of it the way it is? I don’t know the landscape of the area so I’m just wondering if a spot like that could be used while still honoring the past? Or is it just like too creepy?
It's not in a very populated area of the country. There are plenty of other small villages in this area and 100k-ish inhabitants city at around 30 min by car (Limoges)
That’s good to know. I’ve seen things being redone from other moments in history like ww2 that have been fully remodeled or remade but they also seem to be in more centralized areas of bigger cities. But you answered my question thank you!
The city has been rebuilt around the old one, but the remains has been preserved as a memorial. There is also a cemetary that holds in a glass casket the remains of the murdered inhabitants.
•
u/Aware_Cheesecake_519 16h ago
This place holds terrible memories.