r/elderscrollsonline • u/BobaSoda_ • 17h ago
Discussion The Warden refresh looks...strange
Excusing the elephant in the room that is ZOS disliking the concept of permanent summons/pets despite having classes centered around the idea of companions because they want to be "not like other MMOs" (Not surprised If Warden bear & Sorcerer summons get cut in the refreshes), nothing about the abilities they've shown so far make any sense to me.
Shalks was replaced with a flying gryphon but not Cliffracer...the literal flying creature, Betty Netch was given reduced visual clarity by getting rid of the beam and making it smaller, and not only is Spriggan not a permanent summon but the seemingly single target heal has a 1 second delay.
As a Warden main, it not only concerns me that this is all they have to show but what is being shown feels like downgrades. I'll genuinely be shocked If the bear survives.
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u/Andantes 16h ago
That's bonkers to me. I warden main, and bears are my favorite creature irl. Seemed like the obvious choice for me. I was hoping for expanded permanent pets because that would give folks a chance to have something other than a bear, if it wasn't something they particularly cared for. Who cares if it's "like other MMO's", I know this might come as a shock to them, but people like having companions and pets permanently, no matter what game they are playing. Genuinely, why would the lack of a feature be more appealing to me?
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u/Inqinity 15h ago
My Argonion is : Bears-With-You.
I am a Warden with the bear ult, have every bear visible available and all the sets that summon a spectral bear to help fight (Selene’s or Archdruid, Haven of Ursus), the mount summon attack, and of course the summoned bear.
Ult Bear, Mount Bear x2 (follower), Mount Bear attack, pet bear, Spectral Bear x 2.
They better not take away a single one of them >:(
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u/-Time-Negotiation- 7h ago
Fret not! It was confirmed on the official forum that the bear will survive! Would be wild if they got rid of it anyway, considering that a bear paw is… literally the warden symbol haha.
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u/SpankYourSpeakers Dark Elf 16h ago edited 16h ago
My main is Warden too, I love my bear! I'm excited to get a Spriggan helper skill, because I use the Spriggan polymorph, but if they remove my bear I'm not gonna enjoy playing. At all.
I'm also hoping that they expand on the combat pet and give us other variants.
Edit: Letters
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u/mossgoblin Green Pact Apologist 15h ago edited 14h ago
Yea. I know for a long time people really wanted more Vvardenfell-aligned options *to swap out in place of the bear* and have also wanted options based around Alliance zones for the people who didn't love the Vvardenfell flavor.
This is one of the better potential applications of cosmetic skill customizations now that we have it! I have no idea what they're thinking.
From a purely pragmatic business pov, this (reskinning permanent pets) could be a money farm for them, so it's highly surprising.
Eta: I very much hope this is just an early look and an expansion of the idea. It's pretty early yet, and they cooked with DK and WW. I imagine hearing thoughtful feedback from warden and petsorc mains about it may make a difference in terms of painpoints
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u/Innkeeparr 16h ago
One would assume the gryphon could simply be a skill style, the function of the skill would presumably remain the same so you would think the shalk would stay and they could easily replace the gryphon with a cliffracer for a skill style.
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u/mossgoblin Green Pact Apologist 14h ago
I really want this to be the case, it would make so much sense and please everyone.
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u/skabassj Daggerfall Covenant 17h ago
I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. They got it right with DK. They still need to create and test and revise and all of that. I’ll be patient.
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u/Conscious_Heart_3007 16h ago edited 15h ago
Yeah I really enjoy the new Dk effects and the sounds too! They did really well and I’m excited to see my favourite class get brought up to speed, I hated the shalks and the whole vvardenfall pets aspect, the gryphon dive looks cool and will synergize nicely with aeries cry proc.
I never liked the netch beam thing so I love the cute lil guy floating around your head instead, it looks more natural.
I hate that it got delayed but it also looks like it was barely worked on and wouldn’t have been ready in time.•
u/TooManyPxls 16h ago
Let me just dust off this list I made about the new DK animations:
- Molten Weapons looks like an 8 year old dreamt them up. What was wrong with your current weapon style having a fire effect?
- Dragonblood looks like someone went over my character's chest with an eraser tool from MSPaint and called it a day.
- Earthspike Mantle gives you a stupid turtle shell on your back instead of a chaotic rock formation.
- With Obsidian Shield your character no longer stomps the rocks from out of the ground, they just kinda spawn swirling around you mid-air. The stomp is still there but the rocks just materialize out of thin air.
- Dragonfire Breath is bugged half of the time where I don't even see any flames coming from my characters mouth.
- Heartfire no longer cracks the earth beneath with sputtering lava, you now create some glowy circle and that's that.
- Inferno gives you no more little ball of fire next to you telling you the skill is active making it harder to keep track of uptime.
- Lava Whip and Chains of Flame sounds are way too aggressive.
- Magma armor now just gives you some rocks on your shoulder and head instead of turning you into a cool lava guy.
- With the new Volcanic Ward skill I really miss being able to deal damage to heal players, it was a unique feature for DK healers that is now just gone.
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u/Femboy_Ghost Dark Elf 16h ago edited 11h ago
Warden never made sense to me to begin with. It’s got a bear and frost magic despite being Morrowind themed, meaning that it doesn’t make any thematic sense for a Dunmer or anyone else.
It should have had more general nature magic and leaned into the Druid theme, way more races and factions could make use out of that.
Netch is still there so more Morrowind theme, and now the Shalks are gone and replaced with a Griffin? So now we have Summerset animals alongside Morrowind animals.
Never could enjoy warden because it’s theming is, and will continue to be, an absolute mess of identity issues.
My suggestion: replace the weird specific animals with very generic ones. Keep the bear, make the netch a butterfly or something, make the cliff racer a spectral bird, and so on.
Replace frost magic with more nature and green related spells, or go in with some water themed skill lines. Make all the plant healing spells have a more green magic then a blue magic. Blue make me think of necromancer, not druid or nature.
By making it generic you can now RP as most all human races, Argonians (kinda), Wood Elves, and High Elves. Would make Druid or Reachman builds amazing.
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u/Remarkable_Win7320 16h ago
Yep, gives bad aftertaste.
It's like someone just shuffled different lore around and got that.Instead every race should have their own lore-accurate animal summons.
Kagouti for delves, Bears for Bretons, etc.
And Cliff Riders vs griffins.
But they are too lazy to do it properly, instead they'll give us a mish-mash.
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u/NirvashSFW High Rock's #1 Dumner Appreciator 16h ago
Maybe he has a summer home in Raven Rock :D
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u/Ill-Pudding-3168 10h ago
Yeo. They are just doing random stuff now. Could be my favourite class, but they are doing it all wrong.
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u/Impossible_Poem_5078 Ebonheart Pact 8h ago
Don't nerf my frosty warden! Sure, small adjustments, other choices and graphics are fine but not a total remake.
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u/Accurate_Risk_582 1h ago
THANKYOU I DESPISE THE STUPID FROST SKILL LINE it completely RUINS it
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u/Accurate_Risk_582 1h ago
Initially before the class mastery i subclassed that skill line and replaced it for a templar one to pretend its solar power magic that at least goes in line with the nature ones
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u/Lourrloki 1h ago
They're reworking the Warden precisely to reduce its ties with Morrowind and make it a more viable class for those (like me) that don't like a class identity too tied to a specific region, so it makes very much sense to have animals from all over the place imho
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u/No-Translator-3156 16h ago
I think they said something about wanting to move the class away from the strict morrowind association
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u/lucky_knot Imperial 15h ago
Will be wild if they completely remove the bear, considering they were selling a skin for it for real money not too long ago. That will be 1500 crowns wasted for a lot of people.
Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent pets but I think classes like sorc and warden should just have variety: be able to keep the pet if you want it or to play without it if it annoys you. Outright removing the poor bear for everyone is not the answer.
And yeah, replacing shalks with the gryphon when the cliffracer is right there is really strange.
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u/Ratsubo 16h ago
Yeah, I don't know what to expect and I'm hoping it's just early and will be revised.
I always thought the Morrowind theme was kinda half-hearted anyway. Like, okay they get a cliff racer and shalks and a netch... and that codes the whole class as "Morrowind themed"? They should have done more or they shouldn't have had that philosophy at all.
I appreciate them walking that 'theme' back, but now they get a Griffon, so my immediate thought was "OH now it's Summerset themed??".
The class just does not have a clear identity and I feel like they need to go back to the drawing board and figure out what "guardian of nature" is actually supposed to look and feel like.
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u/mossgoblin Green Pact Apologist 14h ago
I've always had a suspicion someone enjoyed the visual punmanship of Warden and Vvarden, hence tying them up during that expansion.
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u/BobaSoda_ 16h ago
The main thing that bugs me the most is that all of this is still considered "early" even though at least 75% of the refresh should've been done before the layoffs hit. At this rate, it'll take 5 - 7 years before all the classes get a refresh and that's If the game is still alive by then.
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u/Lourrloki 1h ago
At this rate, it'll take 5 - 7 years before all the classes get a refresh
Yes, we know, we've been talking about this issue for quite some time now. We'll wait and see. It's still a game; it's not like our life depends on it and therefore there's no rush.
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u/Sinolai 10h ago
They also got Fetcher Flies.
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u/Grasshoppermouse42 3h ago
Although at least fetcher flies have a generic enough graphic that they could be any swarm of fly-like bugs, so that could be kept the same.
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u/Noirejin 11h ago
Yeah but in the Elder scrolls lore Gryphons don't only reside in Summerset. If your only introduction to the ES universe is ESO then i can see why you would think that but Gryphons range from a range of locations like Summerset, High Rock, Iliac Bay region
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u/Vidistis Three Alliances 15h ago
I'm hoping the vibe feels more Breton druidic/wyrd, Skaal shaman, and/or agent of Kynareth/Kyne than how it was previously.
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u/Noirejin 11h ago edited 23m ago
IMHO warden shouldn't be a zookeeper outside of their one perma pet. They should keep the bear permanent summon but focus on the seasons aspect as the main ethos of the class. The warden is a "Protector of the green" not "Herder of animals" The green means the natural earth which ranges from Animals, natural flow of the world to plantlife and literally everything else in between.
It would be a much cooler concept to have Warden UTILIZING the aspect of nature rather than controlling. As to be a protector of the green is to recognize the autonomy of most natural things, so it's more of a bond with the Fauna and Flora you're protecting than straight bidding. As opposed to Necromancers and Sorcerers who use their arcane magicks to have creatures or risen dead exact their will.
I quite like the aspect that Wardens manifest their aid or forming a bond such as with the bear or Netch. and with their other abilities like the Spriggan or Gryphon it's more of a aid in battle type situation then it is a bond that can be exploited.
Warden ideally should have the season element be the main focal point of their rework as that creates class identity and uniqueness. The perma summon thing honestly should be reserved for Necros and Sorcs. Both gameplay and Lore should work in tandem. Not one just accentuated for the sake of it.
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u/Electronic_File2947 15h ago
I think the problem with permanent pets is the same with new classes, skills and other stuff - they also said this in the thread about different animal skins for the bear - but that they are running out of memory, especially for the unfort. Still supported low end systems like xbox s....
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u/ShorohUA Shor's bones 14h ago
perhaps they could remove 50gb worth of unused sets, or at least consolidate some of them to make them a viable alternative to meta sets
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u/Electronic_File2947 13h ago
The memory is pred taxed afaik understand the more different lasting animations you have on at the same time eg having 20 warden with 30 different skinned persistent pets
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u/SilverIce58 Argonian 16h ago
I honestly hate the Gryphon change for Scorch. Its too big. The beetles were fine. Change them into assassin beetles or thunderbugs if the shalks were too Morrowind-esque, but to completely change the ability to another divebomb attack?? Is Dive going to summon a creature up from the ground next?? Make it make sense guys, like what are they doing? How does a Gryphon even translate to scorching the enemy? Wasnt the whole point of calling it Scorch was because it used Shalk?
The spriggan ability was honestly mid with how fast it goes summoning the spriggan and dismissing it for what is probably a burst heal or a H.o.T. heal. The netch is whatever, itd be cool to see a torchbug or moth floating around us instead if we're supposed to be moving away from the Morrowind creatures vibe, but I was honestly fine with what it was before.
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u/Grockr Lean, green, killing machine 14h ago
Scorch looked really weird, bugs just teleported in did an idle pose and teleported out. Since they want to distance it from Vvardenfell theme i think it makes senes to get rid of the bugs. Even despite being called Scorch and themed after fiery bugs the ability never had fire element anyway.
My idea was to make it a stampeding spirit moose or something like that, very similar to what they did with the griffon.
But yea the griffon's similarity to the original Dive is odd, perhaps they are getting rid of it in favor of putting spammable into another skill line. Perhaps proper frost magic spammable?•
u/BobaSoda_ 14h ago
Your idea is already in the game and it's called "Trample". Equip a Moose mount, cast Trample, now you have a stampeding Moose that's fully customizable.
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u/ShorohUA Shor's bones 15h ago
ZOS should've replaced shalks with burrowing skeevers. They live everywhere in Tamriel, and possibly even beyond
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u/SilverIce58 Argonian 14h ago
Or even the Haj Mota like they were going to do in the first place. I'm pretty sure they had concept art of a Haj Mota burrowing up from the ground when they first created the class, and despite that being a more Black Marsh creature, that would be a fun addition.
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u/BobaSoda_ 16h ago
If they wanted to reinforce the idea of seasons, It would've honestly been better to tie each season to a set of companions/creatures. I get the need to shy away from the Morrowind aesthetic but what's being replaced makes no sense because why is the Betty Netch still here but Shalks was replaced??? It's not very consistent.
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u/Lourrloki 1h ago
I hated the beatles tbh; for me it's a very welcome update, not saying it's perfect in any way, but I didn't like the Shalks, so this is better in my book
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u/comment_i_had_to Aldmeri Dominion 14h ago
I liked the basic function of the scorch ability already. A directional, AOE, burst-friendly, debuff is fairly unique in the game and was really the main identity of warden in Pvp. Arcanist kind of jumped in that lane but the fissure was still the best skill.
Now, it looked like it was targeted? Not sure if it was single target or not but that kills a ton of the current usefulness. Right now, you can pre-load the skill without line of sight or being in range and that is crucial. The way it comes back is super useful too so not sure if they will ditch that.
As far as how it looks, I don't care that much about the style but it seems like it completely obscures your reticle for a significant moment. It's like putting a hand in your own face while you are about to release a jump shot, this skill would have to be completely OP to make up for these various shortcomings.
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u/killedPersephone High Elf Arcanist 8h ago
Personally, I can do without the Sorcerer's pets; they just annoy me, so I play the class without them. With the Warden, however, I would have liked a skill skin that allowed the bear to transform into a completely different animal - like a Senche-lion or tiger - rather than just changing its fur color. Or better yet, a wolf the size of a wolf mount. Initially, I felt the Warden was very heavily themed around *Morrowind*; while that certainly makes the class unique, the theme is very specific, and it always feels wrong to me to play any race other than a Dunmer in this class (fun fact: my three Wardens are a Breton, a Bosmer, and an Orsimer).
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u/MartiusDecimus Great House Telvanni 3h ago
I would have also preferred a solution like they did with Molten Weapons, applicable skill styles that let you choose the animal itself.
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u/faderogue Three Alliances 3h ago
i really don’t understand the gryphon change and personally i think it looks really out of place… like what’s wrong with the shalks? or just any burrowing creature if they want to step away from the morrowind theme? the gryphon is silly and makes no sense. i want my warden to call on the nature around them like the lore suggests, not summon a magical glowing mythical creature through a portal from aetherius or wherever. in the sense of them trying to be unlike other mmos, it really feels like these class reworks are leaning more towards the oversaturated, special-effects-heavy, every-attack-is-an-ultimate-move visuals a lot of newer mmos and especially gacha games have. like cocomelon. it’s just too much going on.
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u/Lourrloki 1h ago
it really feels like these class reworks are leaning more towards the oversaturated, special-effects-heavy
you'll be able to turn down vfx intensity starting from the next update yk. I've been waiting for that for quite some time!
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u/BobaSoda_ 1h ago
So much effort put into such flashy effects and we'll barely get to see half of it because they thought it'd be a quirky idea to implement an animation canceling bug as part of the core combat of their entire game that relies on stable servers to even function.
Expect the nonsensical portal to not even spawn half the time, a random gryphon flies out of nothing to just completely freeze mid-air, and either you get disconnected or everything freezes into a death in one frame.
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u/d1z 6h ago
Unironically wondering if the Warden refresh will come pre-nerfed, or if ZOS waits a month or 2 to nerf it into irrelevancy like with WW and DK?
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u/BobaSoda_ 4h ago
You know the answer already. It'll be really strong for about 2 - 3 months, hype gets people logging in, logged in players are more likely to spend money in the crown store, they get their bag, then sledgehammer nerf it and say "we just felt it was right..." despite never explaining what "feeling right" means.
But I don't think there will be much to nerf since the sneak peak already looks scuffed and with half the team gone it might be a nightmare release.
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u/AscenDevise Three Alliances 3h ago
This is the same team that went in and nerfed some DoA sets and other ones that even Alcast wasn't using anymore, just because, this year. Never underestimate the crapification power of zos, peace be unto them.
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u/Exact_Ad_2901 2h ago
Yeah it doesn't make sense that the bear only stays spawned if you use that skill bar.. Like, werewolf pack leader with the two perma pets what? Maybe it's just that they would mess the code 🤣🤣🤣 And not like other mmos? Teso is wow with extra steps
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u/BobaSoda_ 1h ago
ESO is WoW with less steps but all the steps are on completely different staircases...
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u/destindil Aldmeri Dominion 1h ago
I'm pretty happy with the art direction so far, it feels much more universal than the original. I guess we'll see how it actually comes together, but it's promising. That's just my tastes though, YMMV.
My biggest gripe is just the wait for it. This game's in such a holding pattern.
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u/Envy661 10h ago
As a frost warden tank, literally the only bit that excited me about the reveal was that one ability themed itself around frost powers a little bit, and it was the only ability from green balance I use.
As far as animal companion stuff goes, they're not introducing anything I'm interested in. Like, woo... A spriggan... Neat. I want tigers or lions or saber cats or something. Give me a big cat that causes bleeding damage, or a saber cat that applies chilled or something. Something that fits the min elemental focus of the warden.
"We're doing seasons" seems like such an oversight to a class that has had one of its core focuses in winter since the beginning.
Animal companion should have had abilities focused on that. Ice wraiths, winterborn spriggans, saber cats, frost trolls, polar bears, etc.
Green Balance should have a focus on exposing nature from the ice and snow. Luminus mushroom fungal growths, tundra cotton storms, snow cedars that work as totems, snowberries that create some form of synergistic field, snow lilys that work like the lotus themed ability we have now, etc.
Like the potential has always been there for the ice destruction magic class. They just themed it around the worst possible area to do with ice imaginable, because it launched with that zone, and it's a complete wasted opperatunity in "Finding a theme for Warden" not to focus on one of its most iconic subclasses.
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u/BobaSoda_ 10h ago
You're lowkey just describing a Cryomancer, it wouldn't even be a druid-like class anymore If it went heavy on the ice.
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u/Envy661 9h ago
How would it not be druidic anymore when the only thing that really changes is the themeing? You realize in various RPG spaces "Circle of Winter" is one of the most common druidic homebrew themes? Besides, even if that wasn't the case, Wardens are never outright described as druidic in their structure. "Nature-themed" but having no real identity thanks to how varied the subclasses actually are. It's great to put so much emphasis on animals and nature, but you can still have that with a matching elemental theme.
Every other class has a uniform identity, and I get many in the community, myself included, wouldn't mind a proper ice class, but it's never going to happen, and if they gutted winter's embrace from Warden, that would mean a HUGE chunk of Warden players leaving unless they immediately announced and released the new ice class to go with the rework. Its not realistic, but winter themeing is, and I already spoke of nature abilities and animals that could easily coincide with that theme, whether you view it as "Druidic" or not is irrelevant.
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u/Grasshoppermouse42 3h ago
The problem with going full ice is that you have every player who did a nature themed warden that focuses on the green, growing side of nature with plants and insects is now forced to go ice. They should have never put the ice on the warden, IMO, since ice makes far more sense on its own or as part of the necromancer class since you have the icy grip of death and winter is when all the plants and insects die out for a season. Now that they have, I don't see any way to give the class a unified theme without having a bunch of players leave, because if you throw out ice, anyone with an ice theme leaves, if you throw out nature, anyone with a nature theme leaves.
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u/Seraphayel 16h ago
Everything I’ve seen in their preview seemed great to me.
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u/BobaSoda_ 16h ago
They replaced a non-flying creature with a flying creature that has a larger and more obvious telegraph...
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u/Festegios 16h ago
So it’s a pvp issue more than anything else?
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u/BobaSoda_ 16h ago
It's an inconsistency issue, why was the telegraph made to be significantly larger and flashier on what was once Scorch but Betty Netch was given reduced visuals for seemingly no reason?
There are PvP *and* PvE issues. It's becoming harder to visually track anything without staring at your bar the entire time.
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u/Eggdripp Ebonheart Pact 15h ago
There's something to be said for less visual clarity in PvE as well with there being a clear tendency to make animations bigger, flasher, and brighter in these refreshes
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u/Seraphayel 16h ago
So? I think this criticism is all subjective and I think the rework looks great.
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u/BobaSoda_ 14h ago
Being countered in PvP because you're too obvious or being forced to stare at your ability timer because the visual indictor is borderline gone in PvE are not subjective issues. It's objectively bad.
Pretty visuals do not change that fact.
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u/WolfCommando45 15h ago
The reason they replaced the Shalks with a gryphon instead of a cliff racer is, like they mentioned in the preview, they wanted to turn in away from being a Morrowind-centered class. They want to to encompass all of Tamriel and I'm honestly for that. For a nature/druid type class, it feels weird creating a character and have all their creatures save one be from Vvardenfell
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u/Shalliar Agent 11h ago
And what if somebody picked the class exactly because its Morrowind-themed? They shouldve just made some skill styles for that and renamed the abilities in a more neutral way.
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u/BobaSoda_ 14h ago
There's a ton of different flying creatures in the game and they chose the one that aligns the most with Summerset. My first choice would've been a Hawk but I'm a different kind of beast.
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u/itsMKq8 6h ago
This game is a long way from being stable i still won't come back till the game and classes are actually stable. I'm sick of constantly changing sets or change my playstyle because of the constant nerfs thats been going on and on since one tamriel. Most of the things that used to be alot of fun are gone from the game now most classes used to be 3 times better than what they are now. They need to start with seperating the skill trees and classes for PvP from the PvE the PVP players never ever stop complaining as long as meta exist and as an MMO a meta is part of the experience in the endgame. They can tinker with PVP all they want as long as the PVE is fun and stable.
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u/d1z 6h ago
This. PvPers are what? 10% of the playerbase at best? And they'll NEVER be happy anyway. ZOS should just pull the ripcord on PvP, replace it completely with Vengeance, and make PvEers happy with non-pvp tainted balance.
At this rate, they're just shooting themselves in the foot and driving away masses of players for nothing.
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u/SJguy819 15h ago
So I can’t speak too much for Warden summons but I’m a Sorc main and I can tell you what we’ve suggested for those summons, which do tend to be more permanent.
Necro basically set a new standard for temporary summons in ESO combat. Given that it was a premium to access class, they have it (at the time) some advantages, mechanically. Over time those advantages have eroded, but, in terms of temp summons that are non-Ulti Necro set a benchmark.
For Sorc summons many of us suggested moving them into a dedicated “Conjuring” world skill line. This way the pets could be given more skills, morphs, and passives that really reinforce them and support them. The current Sorc pets have generally poor AI, low damage output, and are more of a utility but even still, there really isn’t the slot / passive space within the Daedric summoning line to really bring them up to current. In this way, players could a lot a summoned pet without having to subclass or otherwise pay a penalty.
Temporary summons seem to be the direction the Devs are looking to go. Some of these changes don’t follow the traditional theme of Warden but they could be overall better, especially if changing these skills is a net reduction in capability of the subclasses meta. We all know Shalks are a commonly leaned on.
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u/ShorohUA Shor's bones 15h ago
Cliffracers are mostly associated with Morrowind. ZOS is trying to cut back on using so many Morrowind-themed animals for a class that uses powers, that are associated with a god that is not worshipped in Morrowind (Y'ffre). And they are not making this decision out of blue, because this was a common complaint about Warden since this class was added to the game
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u/Rath_Brained Ebonheart Pact 13h ago
They didn't want it to be morrowind centric. So it will use various beasts. And I love it. Cause my Orc Warden can be a Wrothgarian beast tamer.
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u/Shalliar Agent 11h ago
Can he? Gryphons and netches dont live there.
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u/Rath_Brained Ebonheart Pact 11h ago
Yea, everyone travels around. Hunt a beast, force tame it, now has beast to summon. Lock em in cages in the house. Lol.
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u/ConfusedGamer63 Indhil 12h ago
Am I hearing this right? They are taking away my bear?
I have long thought that we should have bear options. There are so many animals in the game I should be able to have other types of pets. I can have white, brown or gray bears... why can't I have a tiger or a wolf?
But now I can't have a bear either?
Don't get me wrong. I have multiple wardens and not all of them use the permanent pet. But taking the bear away will absolutely drive me from the game.
Fuck this shit. I'm so sick of corporations pushing crap on us that we never asked for. It's like fucking AI. I've dropped so much money into this game. I literally have 16K hours in just over 7 years. I main a warden.
I came into reddit to bitch about the greedy xbox game pass thing. Pointless to have ESO on there if you can only play 15 hours a freaking month.
... but a warden with no pets? WTF. I so hate the world right now.
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u/Jewrusalem Bosmeri Dominion 12h ago
They're not getting rid of the bear. There are two paid-for skill styles for the bear which basically ensures its survival. They said in this update here that they'll be adding more summons to the skillset ("To address the community's request for more creatures within the Warden’s kit"). With that sentiment at the forefront of their plans for the class, I doubt they would remove the bear.
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u/AutismCommunism Wood Elf 8h ago
I dont understand why the spriggan is there at all
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u/BobaSoda_ 4h ago
I'm a personal fan of the spriggan but the actual functionality of it doesn't make any sense. Heard it was potentially replacing shrooms heal and If that's true it'll be a massive downgrade.
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u/Ok_Foot1988 Three Alliances 8h ago
I was really hoping the bear would be expanded in some way. Maybe more alternative fur colors, or the option to have another similar size animal (like choose your companion animal: bear, big cat, other unique eso creatures of similar size and such)
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u/Lourrloki 1h ago
The whole Seasons idea is dope, can't wait for the update, although truth must be said: I'm not a Warden main, so if I end up liking the rework I'll use Warden more, if not I'll stick to my main; it might be harder for Warden mains...
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u/finesesarcasm 1h ago
>Betty Netch was given reduced visual clarity
Current one stays in 1 spot. New one even though smaller flies around constantly. How is that not even more annoying than the current one I don't understand. Hopefully there is an option to make it stay in 1 spot
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u/ForceTemporary4866 47m ago
Zos workers can't even be human at this point,.because every human knows this shit is asssssssssss
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u/were-lizard 31m ago
They should honestly have your summons be a table of local animals. So a warden on summerset would have griffons, direwolves, butterflies, but then goes to vvardenfell and the summons brings netches, shalks, fetcherfly, etc.
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u/No_Wafer8921 16h ago
Im a warden main too, and changes are great, especially the gryphon fits perfectly to my high elf.
Sorry but obviously they cant please everyone, it just sucks to be you I guess
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u/BobaSoda_ 16h ago
You care more about the aesthetics of roleplaying a High Elf with a gryphon companion than the actual functionality of the class itself. If you were actually a Warden main, you'd see that this isn't good for neither of us.
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u/Lmnt_elmo 14h ago
They layoffs were 1 month before we were meant to get the full warden refresh..... Your telling me that's all they had done? Starting to think they might have had a point of cutting the staff back to wrothgar numbers lot of people doing not a lot of work
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u/Shalliar Agent 11h ago
Yeah, were not too far away from a promised sorc refresh, and there is nothing on it
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u/Itswithazee 14h ago
This is me waiting for eso to get a combination of necessary and refreshing changes while I am on an indefinite break. I would probably play more permanently if they would get rid of the craft bag subscription crap. Here am I watching from a distance. Getting bummed out. By long processing times for implantation, and weird choices. I do like the less flashy ability philosophy though.
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u/Firetail_Taevarth Argonian 14h ago edited 14h ago
The worst part about making pets not permanent to "not be like other MMOs" is that there really are not ANY MMOs that do Permanent Pets anyway....
FF14 has Summoner, but the only "pet" is a Carbuncle, and its only purpose is to temporarily turn into other big attacks with visual FX instead since it does not actually fight. Beastmaster is coming out but it's a "Limited Job" so it can't be used for 95% of the game's content, which really made me angry...
Guild Wars 2 has Ranger, and the pets do exist, but the crazy part is that the best DPS version of that Class makes the pet dissapear. So you aren't even living the fantasy of having pets fight with you.
I just want a real Pet Tamer/Summoner class bro....everyone else gets to live their dumb power fantasies, except for the one I want.
Only game that has ever done this right is Ark Survival Evolved. But its not really an MMO in the traditional sense
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u/Fluffy-Perspective67 12h ago
Just gonna gloss over WOW having permanent pets huh?
Warhammer Online and Rift would also like a word.
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u/Shalliar Agent 11h ago
Officially WHO is dead
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u/Fluffy-Perspective67 11h ago
Still made a permanent pet combat system that worked, which is what was being questioned.
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u/AscenDevise Three Alliances 9h ago
GW2 also has the Necromancer, and you need that flesh golem for dealing with enemy breakbars, at the very least, because it doesn't have a ton of CC otherwise. However bad it might be for damage, you can also populate every utility slot with permapets as well, including the heal (good luck when that gets killed, but you can). Mechanists have their giant jade mech. Asura can summon a bunch of different golems through racial abilities. As for the Ranger, Soulbeast's 'supremacy' on the dummy is just 600 average dps (Power version) over Power Untamed, according to Snowcrows, and you're looking at either Galeshot (sPvP) or Untamed (OW) over that in terms of real-life performance.
WoW has the Hunter. Nuff said.
STO has a bunch of permanent pet kit modules that anyone can use for ground, and ships with either one hangar bay or two in space. Also there, you have saucer/chevron/multivector/pet separation (most notably the Linked Command Matrix's Heavy Attack Craft, which anyone can use to get the full bonus from the Hydra's trait).
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u/TooManyPxls 17h ago edited 8h ago
Good luck seeing if the new betty netch is up in a 12 man trial!
I really hoped ZOS would stop with the animation overhaul and put their focus on fixing bugs and balancing after the lay offs.
DK looks absolutely terrible and I suspect they are doing it to save on server space the original (much more detailed) animation took up.
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u/BobaSoda_ 16h ago
The class refreshes have been long overdue for quite some time so they're definitely needed and DK looks good. But I agree that the reduced visuals will force Wardens to stare at their timers especially during trials when group stacking is frequent.
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u/TooManyPxls 16h ago edited 14h ago
Update existing animation visuals: Completely fine.
Changing them to remove charm and gameplay functionality: Look how they massacred my boy.
If you think the new DK animations "look good" you have bad taste and no eye for detail.
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u/Aeon_Mortuum Argaynian | @Astralakash (PC EU) 8h ago
Animations are on the client...
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u/TooManyPxls 8h ago
You mean PTS?
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u/Aeon_Mortuum Argaynian | @Astralakash (PC EU) 8h ago
Client is the game running on your PC/console
Server is the computer ZOS runs in a data centre somewhere that is doing all the thinking
Visuals like animations are assets on the client
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u/TooManyPxls 8h ago edited 8h ago
Ahh, so the the new animator is just really bad at their job. Thanks for clarifying.
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u/King-Juggernaut 15h ago
They split the themes too much between seasons, frost, and animals.
We need animals + one or the other. And a viable permanent animal companion.
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u/Brickbeard1999 17h ago
I get what you mean, even if personally I’m hoping more to see permanent pets definitely on stuff like necromancer, cus I really feel like it’s missing from that class.
Pet builds really ought to be possible on classes where applicable, tho I guess they’re leaning more into seasons than animals with this refresh?