r/armenia • u/T-nash • Dec 30 '25
Falsification/propaganda / Կեղծում/քարոզչություն A Most Toxic Office: How Armenia’s ‘High’ Commissioner of Diasporan Affairs Sows Division, Discontent, and Disinformation Across Communities and Continents Pt.1 - Oragark
https://www.oragark.com/a-most-toxic-office-how-armenias-high-commissioner-of-diasporan-affairs-sows-division-discontent-and-disinformation-across-communities-and-continents-pt-1•
u/Melitene1 Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
Lol this doesn't even deserve a spot here, it's such an obvious hit job. At least it has the propaganda tag...
BTW, since he talks about Sinanyan's visit to a school, I know from first hand that during Sinanyan's visit to the US, the ARF was trying to rip apart the diaspora communities he visited. In one case, it arranged for all the Tashnag moms of an Armenian school to threaten to pull their children out (for good, this seriously harming the institution) if Sinanyan's visit- which had already been arranged- went through with. Eventually it was resolved by which Sinanyan was only allowed to be escorted briefly through the school and sent away without speaking to anyone, lest he pollute their minds or whatever nonsense. The ARF was still invited to all his events, but they stood outside and boycotted instead. Just a total mess that accomplished nothing, and this article represents another example of that behavior.
Also factually speaking, the account of Sinanyan's career is just factually wrong. Whatever you think of him, it is objectively false that his career ended with the social media scandal in 2013. He was elected to office and later became mayor. He resigned in 2019 order to accept the post he holds today. How did his US political career die in 2013 then?
I'll also note that one of the most known comments from the social media scandal was homophobic, but its not mentioned at all along with the other terms like racist and misogynistic, probably because of the numerous homophobic scandals surrounding ARF members.
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u/oldvi Dec 30 '25
"So-called author" of this opus thinks that foreighn policies of Armenia have to be decided by him or some UCLA students.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 30 '25
I feel like the hatred for the Tashnags is just straight up turkish propoganda (not defending the Tashnags but my god they aren't to blame for absolutely everything). Also, Glendale is predominantly Hyastancies and recent diaspora immigrants. Most of the tashnags you all demonize aren't even in Glendale. Ya'll are hilarious and don't seem to understand the basic make up of the diaspora in the USA.
Also, if this guy was better at his job, maybe he'd be able to work with the diaspora organization in the USA instead of circumventing everything we've built here. This is low key turkish propoganda to me. Not saying OP is trying to do this, but all this aims to do is paint the diaspora as unrelenting, unknowlesgible, and against the prosperity of Armenia for some evil selfish motive. We aren't.
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u/TheSarmaChronicals Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
Glad someone said it. The amount of disinformation on this sub is so weird. Everyone seems confused about where the political parties are, the different disporas. I occasionally self harm and kill brain cells in Turkish spaces that bitch about us and it's word for word the same things said.
Like everyone associating Glendale with Tashnags is hilarious. Also these comments about diaspora not knowing what life in Armenia is like? Almost every Hayastanci I know was born and raised in Armenia and in many cases arrived recently.
Also, this is the only place on earth where I am forced to defend Glendale. I never thought this day would come.
Edit: just to be clear not saying OP is doing this. Just sub in general.
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u/T-nash Dec 31 '25
I have never seen, nor have I associated glendale with Tashnags, people have criticized people doing takes from glendale, and they have been called out.
They don't, most of the harsh opinions and comments are mainly from the WA who have never lived in Armenia, apart from some touring. while the Armenians that immigrated out have been out the country long enough to not know what changed and what's happening. Why should anyone take the opinion of a person who immigrated out in 2017? or 2019? or 2020? They shouldn't. The only valid opinion here is from someone who lived through it all and saw the changes throughout.
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u/TheSarmaChronicals Dec 31 '25
I didn't say you did. The sub as a whole doesn't seem to know basic things about the diaspora and has an obsession with Glendale which is ironic.
The Armenians who immigrate out seem to immigrate out regularly. There is a constant influx of Armenians leaving Armenia to the point where I only know of mostly children who were not born there. They are people who lived through it all. Armenia is bleeding people.
For the record, I do not believe that people who do not live in Armenia should have a say in how the country is run. But a huge issue, which has always been an issue, is that Armenia represents all Armenians just because it is called Armenia. I think both sides feel they are being spoken for. And then you add that the diaspora has not always come back with great stories. Repatriats who left becsuse of how they were treated. To my knowledge this has gotten better.
I think understanding the motivations of the diaspora, in particular the average people, would better solve this issue.
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u/T-nash Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
The problem with Armenia and born outside diaspora, is that there are nothing in common except that both are Armenians. It's been 100+ years, the WA diaspora most of the time has this preset opinion or expectation of Armenians here that have formed outside the country, that when they visit they go through a massive culture shock, as well as different core values, the "Armenia is this, that" talk you hear from some people abroad, takes over their views, and start hating it.
Every WA i know that came to Armenia, 8/10 left because they went through culture shock, and i've heard the same complains every time, that hayastancis are too different, while the other 2/10 accepted that they should adapt to fit in, that the differences are natural.
And then you add that the diaspora has not always come back with great stories. Repatriats who left becsuse of how they were treated. To my knowledge this has gotten better.
Exactly my point. Yes Armenians here are rapidly changing their values to more western standards, but the old habits are core in their psychology.
Here's a silly example, here in Armenia when the price is 16,100amd, you're expected to pay the 100amd and not receive a rounding.
While diaspora from the ME is used to rounding up and store owners being generous, so when they buy something and the store does not round it up, and they make a comment and the store owner gets offended by it, so does the ME repatriate. So by this. you end up reinforcing all the bad things you head about Armenia from abroad, that they're greedy and hate the diaspora. They leave the store and think the store owner didn't round the 100amd because they're the diaspora and the locals do that to them.
One should respect the locals and accept the basic values differences.
I think understanding the motivations of the diaspora, in particular the average people, would better solve this issue.
I'm sure every diaspora wants the good of Armenia, what they don't understand is that they are counter intuitive in many cases, useless in others. I link all of these taboos originating from the arf/anca circles. New views should be instilled and old ones shattered.
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u/TheSarmaChronicals Dec 31 '25
Adapt and fit in like not speaking Western Armenian anymore? Are Western Armenians expected to assimilate? Also the decision to embrace soviet culture, like delibertly not preserving the traditional spelling. There are minor things that Armenia could do to help this disconnect. I think both sides really fail at that but the responsibility, fair or not, will fall on Armenia because it is the country representing us whether we want it to or not.
We are not like other ethnic groups. We have a growing diaspora from exile, displacement, and genocide. I read Turkish propaganda and see what game they are playing and Armenians on this sub fall for it or enable it.
Armenia doesn't represent our entire culture but I think a large issue is that we sweep cultural differences under the rug in the interest of "unity" and it is causing further miscommunication problems.
I say these things not because I think the diaspora doesn't have our own dumpster fires. But these diaspora orgs are protecting our culture and many feel Armenia is not. A lot of this hostility from the diaspora may be from that and I think we need to find ways to handle it internally.
I see Armenians across the political spectrum feel this way. Arf or not.
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u/T-nash Dec 31 '25
No, I will forever defend and push for the standardization of the western dialect, as well as the spelling. So yes, I agree with you on that regard, Armenia does not do enough to help repatriation. I theorize it may be because they're afraid of arf having too many people and influence in Armenia, but that's just my opinion.
However, if you're one of the people who refuses to learn and speak the Eastern dialect, people will simply not want to do anything with you because it's hard to understand you. You are expected to at least speak the EA dialect to the public, keep your WA dialect within friends (EA friends). I have an aunt and cousins here who outright refuse to speak EA, my aunt told her neighbors to their faces that I will never speak your dialect, mine's better. Now all their neighbors want nothing to do with them because they need to put conscious effort to understand "that one neighbor". I can't blame them. People in public can't spend time troubleshooting your dialect, you have to speak EA with them so they can deliver their service in a quick matter.
That said, let's be real, we aren't who our great grandparents were, we've already assimilated in our host countries, the WA diaspora culture is not our original culture, it's just a derailed and modified one past 100 years.
Armenians on this sub don't fall for it, they're just too tired from constant war and conflict, they just want to live like everyone else. I can't blame them, and we need to understand that. Unless the diaspora is willing to turn Armenia into a massive superpower in the world and fight on their behalf, the people here are just, plainly, tired. They're mainly overlooking the past for their comfort.
I think if we go back 100 years, before the soviet union, both WA and EA would have been just fine culturally, since then, one has had the soviet years, the other their host country, simply. The miscommunications are the assimilation add ons we took over the years, and that's no one's fault, however when you're the newcomer, you're expected to respect the locals anywhere in the world.
While true in the diaspora there are centers that protect the culture, in Armenia it's fairly standard i would say, I randomly see people publicly dancing folk dances and songs, musics etc. The hostility in the diaspora is not accepting that Hayastancis and them have went on different paths, when they should admit to it and accept the differences, as well as accept that people living under different situations will naturally have different preference, to stop viewing Armenia from their life criteria lens, and understand what these people have went through, what they've been taught, why they are the way they are. It's easy to judge from abroad.
overall yes, Armenia should take measures to create safe grounds to WA diaspora for them to repatriate, but not make the mistake of creating conditions where WA's concentrate in one area then close off to the rest of the country. Unfortunately however that also means over the years people will assimilate. Maybe there's a solution to this, i can't think of it right now.
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u/TheSarmaChronicals Dec 31 '25
I think right now we are in the thick of it. My family reminds me that Armenia was under Russia's thumb until only a few decades ago. I bitch about Armenia sometimes (western Armenian language and that kind of stuff) but when push comes to shove I greatly admire the perseverance and strength of the Hayastancis to deal with the Russians and be neighbors with two hostil Turkic nations that don't let them breath. The diaspora needs to absolutly find ways to be more supportive and make sure they aren't alone. Armenia is our last stand.
I think as Armenians in the diaspora get to know Armenia and Hayastancis it will get better. For my family, travel to Armenia was strictly forbidden in Tashnag circles (at least where I am) while it was under USSR. I am still getting used to the concept of an Armenia I can visit. I grew up hating Russians.
Armenians are really stubborn so someone needs to give lol. I think we can find ways. You are in a unique position as a Western Armenian diasporian who repatriated and I think the diaspora needs more voices to bridge the gap from people who can understand. I am more open to hearing from Western Armenians who live there (by that I mean moved after the USSR). That may not be logical or fair, but it is how people are.
Right now I think with ongoing hostilities in Syria and Lebanon we feel vulnerable as those are cultural strongholds. A lot of the obnoxious behavior is stemming from our own fears and also the fear that we will watch it happen again. We are a traumatized people.
I agree with everything you wrote. Thank you for taking the time to explain it from a perspective I can understand. I feel better informed now
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u/T-nash Dec 31 '25
Yes, and that is why when i hear people judging and shunning Hayastancis, I get sick of it. Just look at some judgmental comments you see, be it on reddit, social media (fb, insta, etc), my Armenian circle back home in the ME, family, heck, even strangers i've met in Canada, they all judge. While from local Armenians i hear fairly commonly tell me "It gives me happiness to see the diaspora coming here to live with us", it really warms my heart. The people here have been dragged into hell several times in the past 100 years, especially the past 30+ through their leaders.
It's all about getting to know them. As I said, not getting to know them to complain about the differences, but to actually understand them and help them, that's what's needed. I came here to Armenia from thinking nothing about Russia, to despising Russia completely. I don't mind the Russian immigrants here, they're super cool, but Russia as a country? they have put Armenia through a shredder and beat it to a pulp.
True about Armenians being stubborn, and i admit, locals are on a new level for sure, but the gap is in language. The right sentence structure is crucial when talking to people. I've found that people here are convinced by hard proof, so they need to see outcome before they believe the method is better. The psychology of not admitting being proven wrong is their demise. I wish I had the talent of gap bridging, but I am sure someone is. I suppose the most effective platform with influence is the arf, which currently is counter intuitive.
For sure about Syria, Lebanon. It's hurtful to see. Unfortunately locals here know nothing about the diaspora quantity in those countries or their lifestyles, heck many don't even know they're separate countries. There needs to be a link created, why that doesn't exist considering they're so close to each other? well, it's a good question.
I agree with everything you wrote. Thank you for taking the time to explain it from a perspective I can understand. I feel better informed now
Thanks for reading. I'm not the best skilled in clearly communicating in what I want to say, but i'm glad it gave some perspective. It took me like 3-4 years to understand the locals, trully. I wish everyone could move and is patient enough, and is willing, to understand the gaps.
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u/T-nash Dec 30 '25
Also, Glendale is predominantly Hyastancies and recent diaspora immigrants. Most of the tashnags you all demonize aren't even in Glendale. Ya'll are hilarious and don't seem to understand the basic make up of the diaspora in the USA.
Is the article not written by an arf/anca shill? what are you talking about?
https://ancawr.org/garen-jinbachian/
Also, if this guy was better at his job, maybe he'd be able to work with the diaspora organization in the USA instead of circumventing everything we've built here.
Did you read the comments here? on why he has to circumvent things? I suppose not.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 30 '25
I read the excuses, sure. Also, I'm mostly commenting on this stupid narrative that is so pervasive on this sub which is "diaspora bad and nothing they say or think matters and they are the reason for everything bad." It's just really annoying and legit comes from turkish propoganda meant to divide us because a huge strength of Armenia is the fact that there is such a large and prosperous diaspora. The more they cut you off and make us into the booogy man, the weaker Armenia is.
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u/Melitene1 Dec 31 '25
Well since I commented here and you are referring to the comments as "excuses", let me say my story was not an excuse by a real world example of how the ARF was not trying to engage with Sinanyan, like the article claims he won't do, but that they were outwardly trying to ruin his trip while refusing to meet with him. I am not Zareh's friends, and I am not comfortable with his online homophobia from 20 years ago (I hope he has changed for the better on that), but from my own experience I know this article is objectively false gaslighting, crying "why won't you meet with us" when actually rejecting his invitation and threatening to rip their American communities apart when he tried to visit them.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 31 '25
I can't comment on the politics but I have a feeling this isn't just a one sided thing, it never is. Any narrative that demonizes one group completely is probably not totally correct. ARF saying he refused to meet with them probably does have truths and the narrative that the ARF refused to meet with him also probably has some truth. It's mostly this "diaspora is out to get us and they want the destruction of Armenia" that is frustrating and im pointing that this narrative comes directly from turkish propoganda meant to demonize the diaspora and cut you guys off from us. That's what they want. They want you to blame us for everything. "Look the reason we can't have peace is those pesky diasporans speaking up about the genocide, that's why we have to do collective punishment you see" ... ring a bell?
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u/Melitene1 Jan 01 '26
Look I know people that organized his 2023 visit to the US and he requested the ARF meet with him and they refused, I know that for a fact. The crazy thing is he even held his meeting in one city at the Prelacy church, and yet all the ARF, ANCA and related groups refused to attend. I can't speak for 2025 since I don't know about it, but they definitely had a chance in 2023 but as I mentioned they tried to destroy his trip, and partly succeeded. Perhaps after that Sinanyan would have found any desire to meet disingenuous and refused, or ARF is just lying. I'm not saying one side is evil in this and one is good, but my story on the 2023 trip is what happened, and it seems they have something very personal against Sinanyan. All that would be required is the fact he works for Pashinyan, that's more than enough for them, there doesn't necessarily have to be anything more to it but I can't verify that. So yes, you can say there's blame on both sides, but one is just doing his job for someone the ARF hates. I don't see anything deeper here, at least there's nothing public to suggest there's more.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Jan 01 '26
So you work on one side and have one side of the story and have decided there is not two sides?
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u/Melitene1 Jan 03 '26
I don't work on either side. I am associated with the school where this happened and so know what happened from the inside.
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u/T-nash Dec 30 '25
I am a diaspora myself and I say that
The diaspora shouldn't have a say in Armenian politics and lifestyle when they don't live here
The diaspora is mostly useless
The current diaspora is deep into arf propaganda, who is effectively working against Armenia as a nation.
While yes the Turkish propaganda shuns the diaspora for their own bad reasons, but realistically, there is some truth that the Armenia diaspora is currently counter intuitive to Armenia as a nation.
The more they cut you off and make us into the booogy man, the weaker Armenia is.
Just look at all the actions done by the likes of anca, mentioned in the comments here with links, they ARE making Armenia weak.
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u/College-throwaway146 Dec 31 '25
"The diaspora is mostly useless" is a crazy statement to make when the continued existence of Armenia depends on them (not saying that it doesn't depend on the population of the Republic too)
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u/T-nash Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
when the continued existence of Armenia depends on them
This is basically something the diaspora made up for itself and gave self credit to. The self entitlement is crazy, and unfortunately these are the very opinions circling around within the diaspora, that makes one think Armenia/Hayastancis can't take care of themselves or can't survive without the diaspora, when in reality, Armenia is not dependent on its diaspora for its survival, it's doing just fine through hard work.
Armenia is not reliant on its diaspora for its existence and progress, in fact, as it stands, the diaspora is hindering Armenia from progressing through all the political propaganda.
Yes, I reiterate, the diaspora is useless, it does nothing to further Armenian interests in their host countries. There are a select few that do, the rest just rant and take credits.
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u/College-throwaway146 Jan 02 '26
Do you think France would be aiding Armenia if it wasn't for the Diaspora's influence?
When for many years tourism made up a significant part of Armenia's GDP, who were the ones visiting?
Do you think a large part of foreign investment (which any development policymaker will tell you is fundamental to economic development) is from well-meaning foreigners who arbitrarily decided to invest in Armenia?
This is all to say that it's a combined effort (of course Armenia itself putting in a much larger proportion). But the Diaspora is fundamental to Armenia's past and hopefully future success, so to deny it is inexplicable.
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u/T-nash Jan 03 '26
I absolutely do. And there's evidence for it.
France isn't helping Armenia because of the diaspora, it's helping because France under Macron wants influence, he's been trying to reach out to many countries, Lebanon as well. If the diaspora was doing anything to influence France, it would have happened before or during the 2020 war. There's a reason France aided Armenia after 2021, it's because Armenia reached out and asked for it. The evidence is staring at your face.
Tourism didn't raise Armenia's gdp, hard work did. Had Armenians not visited Armenia in those years, it would have been just fine. Smaller econom sure, but not much different. Most of Armenia's economy comes from locals working. Most of that economy was under the grey market anyway in the past.
My man, first off, those large part diaspora investors are a few hundred people, out of millions in the diaspora, so in that regards, you can't give credit to the diaspora as a whole just because a few hundred out of 5m+ in the world did something, that's just ridiculous. Secondly, those who invested, are from local Armenians, EA, who, or who's families went abroad after Armenia's independence and came back, nothing from the WA's who give credit from themselves.
Armenia helped itself, pretty much. It's been 30+ years since independence, I've been hearing the argument diaspora doing this diaspora doing that since i could even form sentences, i came to Armenia and saw myself that the diaspora has been mainly absent in developing Armenia because it was underdeveloped af. It's only been the past 5 years since it's been rapidly going forward, and that's mainly thanks to administration change, when had the diaspora had done anything in the numbers that we have, it should never have been under developed.
Just so there's no confusion, my reference for diaspora is mainly focused on WA, though one can argue the 1m+ who left Armenia as well.
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u/College-throwaway146 Jan 03 '26
The EA-WA argument you make is nonsensical because the list of WA Diasporans helping Armenia is interminable.
Administration change was key and unlocked exponential growth compared to before, but reducing earlier Diasporan contributions (WA/EA/whatever) is just being blind. Foreign aid coordinated by Diaspora after Spitak earthquake, volunteers going to Artsakh in the first war and after, consistently providing money and human capital to develop the country.
You gain nothing by alienating the Diaspora. See the results when you decide to isolate Armenia from its unique benefit and turn it into another ~3 million Eastern European state like North Macedonia.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 31 '25
I know you are diaspora, which makes me all the more sad that you perpetuating this black and white narrative BS when you should know better and I would think you'd understand the nuance of the rift that exists.
he diaspora shouldn't have a say in Armenian politics and lifestyle when they don't live here
I never said the diaspora should control Armenia....
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u/T-nash Dec 31 '25
I'm suppose to know better, being the person who has been living for 5 years in Armenia, while you're over there? Is this where you claim you know better? no, you don't. Reality is, i've lives around both, and I understand full well how Armenians in Armenia suffer while the diaspora just talks. After several years of living in Armenia, the picture is pretty clear, the diaspora is self entitled.
I never said the diaspora should control Armenia....
Then we're agreement, the diaspora should keep their opinions to themselves and they shouldn't form love/hatred/preference/judgment on Armenian politicians, nor people. As you have outlined, you hate the current administration all the while being abroad, instead of living under the ruling class and seeing the changes personally over the years.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 31 '25
After several years of living in Armenia, the picture is pretty clear, the diaspora is self entitled.
Wow...
And you say I live in a bubble...
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u/Evakuate493 Dec 30 '25
Your “we” at the end is respectfully irrelevant. You can def. have great intentions, but no one person on Reddit can claim to speak for all diaspora and your sentence reads as brushing off the clear misinformation, deception, and ulterior motives most of the major diaspora organizations in the US are guilty of.
There are PLENTY of examples of diaspora organizations with faulty connections, the same way there are some with great motives/outcomes.
The heads of these corrupt organizations genuinely think they can run the country from the US/whatever country they reside in (as if they have no bias and actually understand the daily lives of people in Armenia - both lies).
There are examples of diaspora organizations bottlenecking attempts to close the gap between Armenia and Armenians worldwide. It’s honestly so disgraceful how these corrupt people act, let alone the uneducated masses that blindly follow bc they believe everything they read on Facebook or WhatsApp or Telegram.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 30 '25
At no point did I imply I speak for the entire diaspora, lol. I said we in the proverbial we. I never said all diaspora orgs are perfect, but the prevailing narrative on this sub is to paint all diaspora as bad and it's frustrating. I see this propoganda on here all the time. All the blame for the rift is put on us diasporans.
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u/Evakuate493 Dec 30 '25
You were speaking generally hahaha I wasn’t trying to say you speak for everyone! My point is that when you say we don’t, there are actively HUGE groups of diasporans that are against the best interest of Armenia.
A lot would see the country burn if it aligned with their pockets and which political backgrounds they’re tied to. And there are more of these groups than not, especially as you go up their leader ladder.
I do agree with you that there are plenty of diaspora out there that are staunch supporters of Armenia and the future it’s headed on! My problem is that the diaspora has bottlenecked a lot of their support into organizations that do not have the best interests of Armenia at heart, which is why many countries don’t have as strong as a connection as they should.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 30 '25
A lot would see the country burn if it aligned with their pockets and which political backgrounds they’re tied to. And there are more of these groups than not, especially as you go up their leader ladder.
Yeah, it's this kind of narrative that's frustrating. I have never met anyone in the diaspora who's soul concern isn't the strength and prosperity of Armenia. Literally that is all we talk about, that's all we think about. We may disagree on how that happens or what to do, but this idea that we think any different is pure false hood spread by turkey and probably russia. The support from the diaspora is one Armenias great strength. They want you to think this about us because the more you hate and blame us, the less you blame them and the weaker Armenia becomes. Even those of us with ZERO family or historical connections to the current republic have a vested interest in strengthening Armenia.
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u/Evakuate493 Dec 30 '25
Respectfully, I’m not going to get into this. I am very happy that you and the people you surround yourself with are this patriotic for the country. The country needs to get rid of all the people that made money off corruption/slowed the progress of this country. Full stop.
But just bc the people you surround yourself with think this way doesn’t mean it’s like that everywhere. Come on, don’t be this naive. It is abundantly clear in places like LA/Glendale that this is not how it is. All they do is spend time promoting the same tactics this country went through for the last 30+ years.
Go spend half a second reading social media posts/comments from diasporan outlets and see the filth of uneducated comments coming in there. There is no defending that behavior.
Again, there are a lot of diaspora that do have a PROPER vested interest. But just bc you don’t see them doesn’t mean those shady people don’t exist. If you want to say those people don’t exist, I would heavily advise to expand your PoV outside of just what you experience day to day. Have a fantastic day, brother/sister!
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 30 '25
The country needs to get rid of all the people that made money off corruption/slowed the progress of this country. Full stop.
But us diasporans had nothing to do with that.... if anything, we got scammed because we tried to pour tons of money into the country after the fall of the soviet union and it got stolen and funneled away. That's not on us (maybe we should have been less trusting, sure).
Come on, don’t be this naive. It is abundantly clear in places like LA/Glendale that this is not how it is. All they do is spend time promoting the same tactics this country went through for the last 30+ years.
Right, this is what I'm getting at. You all have this monolithic view of the diaspora. The people you're talking about in Glendale specifically are recent Hyastancies that came in the 90s and are not the same as the Western Armenians who have been in diaspora for generations now. We have problems with the recent Hyastancies too, believe me, but that's a whole other controversy. My point is that they don't represent the majority of the diaspora communities even though they have a large population in California. They just haven't had time to get into enough positions of power to be that impactful. Plus the headquarters of the "evil" Tashnags is in Lebanon, not Glendale, not anywhere close to Glendale. The majority of the diaspora isn't in Glendale, it's just one of the biggest population centers.
Go spend half a second reading social media posts/comments from diasporan outlets and see the filth of uneducated comments coming in there. There is no defending that behavior.
I'm not sure what you follow, but most of the orgs i follow on social media are not saying anything insane. Maybe an anti-pashinyan flair, but if that's your definition of wanting the country to burn than there's been more democratic backsliding than I thought. I won't minz words, I hate Pashinyan, but I don't know why that's relevant.
Again, there are a lot of diaspora that do have a PROPER vested interest.
Yeah, this is think is the crux of the issue. I think to you a "proper" interest is doing whatever the Armenian government wants and going with whatever Pashinyan says and sorry, but not agreeing with what the current government is doing is not the same as "wanting the destruction of Armenia" so if that's your view then we're not gonna get along.
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u/Evakuate493 Dec 30 '25
To your first response - do you actually think diasporans had nothing to do with that stuff/didn't know what was going on? There is a reason why a lot of previous Armenian "leaders" have fled to places like Los Angeles. The US literally earlier this year arrested someone for stealing money from the government and using it to purchase things in the US. Why do they feel safe going to the US? Is it not bc there are others there that have done the same/get away with it?
Fully agreed on the point about the original donations. Same goes for some of the most affluent Armenians in the US. They got grifted by the corrupt government and after seeing their money go to peoples' pockets during the earthquake and what not. I would think that had a prevalent role in creating rifts between the diaspora and the US. One can say those were originally baked into the idea of not wanting to support corruption, which is understandable. However, the tension that started between Armenian-diaspora at that point has completely shifted to something else, as part of a concerted effort by some organizations.
I spent multiple sentences chiming in on how there are diasporans that are rightfully supportive and PUT POLITICS ASIDE TO SUPPORT THE COUNTRY and yet, you keep saying I am painting this one-sided argument. I have repeatedly said that the organizations are what keep the bs going, not the individuals like yourself. They are a loud minority that unfortunately don't get checked enough bc Armenians have this idea of "whoever talks the loudest is right" or just bc this person is the oldest we have to respect what they say. Forget that.
I didn't say which ones I follow or don't. I don't use those other social media platforms and haven't for years. I said that the main diasporan news organizations are filled with intentional disinformation campaigns and they have yet to rescind some of the blatantly false stuff. This is not about what you choose to follow - I am talking about the ones with the numbers behind them. If you want to sit here and act like 301 and those places don't exist, then be my guest.
My original point about the diaspora orgs was that they act as if they are the only source. I wish there were other diasporan orgs that don't have political affiliations that we can go through. If there are, I'd be excited to learn about those!
I never once mentioned Tashnags, which again I think proves my point. You inserted one of the orgs there, when I could have been talking about a few others. Doesn't matter where their HQ is, we live in an online world, my friend, where people can communicate and organize across the world in seconds.
Everyone has the right to criticize a politician, when coming from the PoV of FACTS backed up by data, not just what they read on the news. There are quite a few things he has done that I don't agree with. So, I'd be curious to think who you think should be running Armenia, if not him? I am not some avid supporter of his, but bc of the time I have invested into understanding the realpolitik/situation in Armenia, I understand that it is very clearly either him or foreign players spending money and time to prop up someone else. I look forward to the day when a non-putin puppet runs and actually cares about armenia enough to dethrone Pash, but that isn't happening anytime soon based on how it's going now.
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
To your first response - do you actually think diasporans had nothing to do with that stuff/didn't know what was going on?
How much contact do you think us in the diaspora were able to maintain with Armenians in the Republic when there was the Iron Curtain maintain by the Soviets during the Cold War? Add to the fact that the majority of the diaspora was Western and came from places usually very far away from the modern republic and had very little families ties.
There is a reason why a lot of previous Armenian "leaders" have fled to places like Los Angeles.
Idk anything about that, but there's not some conspiracy here. The US likes soviet detectors and the US is the only country on earth that can protect them. It's not rocket science.
The US literally earlier this year arrested someone for stealing money from the government and using it to purchase things in the US. Why do they feel safe going to the US? Is it not bc there are others there that have done the same/get away with it?
I live in the US because my family had to flee the Genocide and leave modern day eastern turkey and can't go back. My family did not come here by choice, we were fleeing for our lives and barely escaped the turks.
I spent multiple sentences chiming in on how there are diasporans that are rightfully supportive and PUT POLITICS ASIDE TO SUPPORT THE COUNTRY and yet, you keep saying I am painting this one-sided argument.
You've pretty consistently said that a majority of diaspora orgs are bad. You seem to also associate disagreement with what's best for Armenia in some of them for "not wanting what's best for the country." So what am I to think?
They are a loud minority that unfortunately don't get checked enough bc Armenians have this idea of "whoever talks the loudest if right" or just bc this person is the oldest we have to respect what they say. Forget that.
Can't say I disagree that this is a problem in our culture generally, but I don't think it relates to the orgs. There's an "old gaurd" for sure, but I still think you seem to be conflating "disagree with what Armenia is doing" with "wants the country to burn."
I said that the main diasporan news organizations are filled with intentional disinformation campaigns and they have yet to rescind some of the blatantly false stuff.
I follow 301, what did they say?
My original point about the diaspora orgs was that they act as if they are the only source. I wish there were other diasporan orgs that don't have political affiliations that we can go through. If there are, I'd be excited to learn about those!
From my perspective, this is how RofA acts. Like us in the Diaspora should have no input, we know nothing, we should have no no rights to our opinions, no say in what kind of relationship we have. Just do what the RofA tells us and don't question. But also, give us money and financial support, this is the main rift i see. To me, I see the main problem Armenia has is the government wants the diaspora organization to be subservient to the RofA so Armenia gets 100% say about what information gets reported and how the diaspora should behave and act and identify. To me, that's a non-starter.
I never once mentioned Tashnags, which again I think proves my point. Y
I use them as an example because I see them brought up a lot and blamed for almost everything. They're just a general example, that's it. Are you saying your a Tashnag and are on board with their political party?
Everyone has the right to criticize a politician, when coming from the PoV of FACTS backed up by data, not just what they read on the news.
Lol, where are we supposed to get facts from? His speech at the UN where he low key denied the genocide and a group of Genocide scholars had to send an open letter reiterating that the Genocide happened and this is settled facts? Or the one where he completely abandoned Artsah? Or how about when he threatened to show he penis to the diocese in Istanbul? Are these not facts? Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I have a different set of facts.
So, I'd be curious to think who you think should be running Armenia, if not him?
Idk, I'd like there to be a fair election and I'd like him to stop conveniently locking up his political opponents, and maybe someone who doesn't contribute to turkish Genocide denial. Small things...
I am not some avid supporter of his, but bc of the time I have invested into understanding the realpolitik/situation in Armenia, I understand that it is very clearly either him or foreign players spending money and time to prop up someone else. I look forward to the day when a non-putin puppet runs and actually cares about armenia enough to dethrone Pash, but that isn't happening anytime soon based on how it's going now.
I think Pashinyan and his government has spend a lot of time and energy actively alienating the diaspora and weakening their real politik position. I think he is reducing investment in military which is insane considering the circumstances. I think there are a lot of decisions he's making that actively weaken Armenia position that go beyond these few points. Just because me and a bunch of diasporans have these views doesn't mean we want the destruction of the RofA. It is because we want Armenia to prosper that we believe these things.
Edit: do you think the whole diaspora is from the RofA btw? I'm kind of confused based on what you said earlier about why my family is in the USA. Like, most of us are exiles from WW1. Most of us are not Soviet Armenians who left because of economic stuff. We aren't in diaspora by choice, we are Western Armenians.
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u/Evakuate493 Dec 31 '25
The example that I gave was a recent one and I mentioned in an online world. One can of course make the argument that back then contact was not as easy. Of course...I can then also say that is was harder to get caught. I can see a PoV where it wasn't as bad when the SU collapsed.
So, if it's not rocket science, why are you acting like it doesn't happen/like you don't know why such things/groups operate from out there?
I wasn't talking about you at all! Unfortunately a lot of our families had to flee during those unforgivable events. Fuck them and anyone that denies that it happened to us and our greek, assyrian, etc. brothers and sisters. I still don't get what that has to do with what I said. That same "not rocket science" you mentioned earlier is the same exact "not rocket science" here :)
That's fair - not every scenario equals the country burning, but that doesn't excuse the consistent amount of stances that are disagreements = X or Y.
If you follow 301 and are not biased, then I wouldn't have to explain myself.
On your point about the relationship between the RoA and diaspora, I actually agree with you. There needs to be a better balance of how the diaspora contributes (monetary and otherwise) & input on stuff. However (and a big one), IMO that is not possible today because of the strained relationship and how much politics have corrupted organizations and people. Things should be wayyyyy more non-political (in the best interest of the country) and I hope we can all agree on that. I don't think it's possible right now for both bodies to come to any sort of agreement on contributing X and Y with how much input diaspora can bc of that.
Are you saying there weren't fair and free elections before? Like the recent one(s) was/weren't?
It's fair of you to have that stance on the Genocide. No one said it wasn't.
You saying "reducing spend" comes off like a 301 headline... If you ZOOM OUT and see the % contributions over let's say the past 10 years, you'd understand the ratio of spending spent there and how it's still a lot higher than it ever was before. Just bc they went from spending an average of 150% to 120% (as a rough example) doesn't mean it's this catastrophic drop. It's still above the precedent. Again, it's fair of you to think that they should still keep spending "150%".
The same way that you and your friends have those views can be easily combatted by someone living in the RoA by saying how would you know what weakens/strengthens Armenia's position if you don't live here? I'm just trying to show a perspective.
This is my last response to this. Have a great day/happy new years.
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u/T-nash Dec 30 '25
You're talking to a person that's so deep in a bubble that you can't convince them of the things you're saying, and from what i can guess from reading their comments, they are already brainwashed by the diaspora outlets about the "democratic backslide" and "hating pashinyan" comments. One can hate Pashinyan, sure, but hate him from living abroad? raises some eyebrows.
They can't see they are part of the problem, and being a snowflake doesn't help them.
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u/Evakuate493 Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
I just find it ironic to bring up democratic backsliding, as if most with that position aren’t mentioning it from their own glass houses. The same organizations that profited off corruption and a lack of democracy are the ones trying to push a narrative that we don’t have a democracy or that we’re backsliding? Whattt? When did their moral compass reappear (again, not this specific person, but the organizations and outlets).
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u/South-Distribution54 Amerigahye Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
Lol, I'm not in a bubble, I read a wealth of news that is not Armenian (most of my news is not Armenian). I talk with Hyastancies and western diasporas that come from all over (iran, syria, Iraq, turkey). My community is pretty diverse and we all disagree on almost everything and we discuss and trying not to kill each other. But a bubble, I am not in lol.
Edit: Iranian Armenians are Eastern, my bad for not specifying that in my wording.
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u/Effective-Job1595 Dec 30 '25
he is beyond most toxic! he’s a self serving zzveli dakank whose policies ruined glendale when he was the mayor here. nothing but shame for our community! larry zarian and ara najarian make armenians proud unlike this anti armenian pashinyan brown noser who has no integrity…he was also a mentor to the current council member elen asatryan who is…dare i say worse than him. they don’t serve the people that elected them; they are all for special groups/individuals who fund their elections at the detriment of the city and the residents. there’s more to these two but i will leave it at that… those who know know!
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u/T-nash Dec 30 '25
So he's bad, but no descriptions of what exactly he did that's so bad?
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u/nakattack5 Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
Because they are somewhat liberal instead of staunch republicans like Najarian. The person you are commenting to is a Trumpster, there’s nothing more to it. They think city council members have the ability to stop your kids from turning gay
Edit: I used to be part of a non-profit that would raise money for children in Armenia to fight cancer. We would usually look for large venues to host fund raisers and Zareh graciously allowed the fund raiser to be held at his home in Glendale, free of charge. Najarian has done nothing for the Armenian community and is hated by most of the non-Armenian residents due to his homophobia. Najarian can’t even speak Armenian
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u/T-nash Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
Just to remind everyone, this is Zareh's comment when he tried to establish connections with the diaspora, now the arf and the like are mad that the Armenian government is circumventing them to reach Armenians though the global arm and such, and they can't do anything about it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/16yijti/un_enters_empty_nagornokarabakh_diaspora/
Here are more evidences that ANCA is the one preventing Armenia-Diaspora relations from flourishing.
https://xcancel.com/vartan84/status/1986874259684163765#m
https://xcancel.com/hyepatriarch/status/1977120414456598588#m
https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/1olzvp8/comment/nmlyaas/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/1oro1d6/comment/nnspeo8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Thanks for the insights u/AdriaticLostOnceMore