r/YUROP • u/Omochanoshi • Jan 14 '26
European Citizens' Initiative - Demand the full suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement in view of Israel’s violations of human rights
https://eci.ec.europa.eu/055/public/#/screen/homeSign it, share it, make it known.
We can't let a criminal country be a European Union partner.
EU should be the light in the dark. The light that encourages peace everywhere everytime.
Peace is not negociable. Justice is not negociable. Freedom is not negociable. Everyone has the right to live free and peacefully.
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u/The_memeperson Nederland Jan 14 '26
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u/YelmodeMambrino España Jan 14 '26
Exactly, it’s embarrassing the double standard some people have here, specially since Israel supports USA in every decision they’re taking
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u/Uberbesen Eurobesen Jan 14 '26
it's fuckin crazy how people still think like transatlanticism is alive and well when Israel is mainly a US proxy and also hostile to multiple European nations
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
It's not real people tho, it's the ziombie bot army as per the latest 700million Hasbara campaign.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
You are the one without arguments; All narcissistic attempts at dominance, being truly savage and beyond uncivilised, and the world has had it precisely with these Zionist delusions of supremacy.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Well at least my ideas are not settler colonial supremacy and stealing houses and land with genocide, using the bible as a somehow valid excuse.
You have no idea how real Europeans feel.
How come I don't know a single person in real life that still tolerates Israel behaviour???
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Sure, just destroy all meaning of words so that they support your most hysterically illiterate narcissistic entitlement.
All you are doing is showing how both antisocial and savage your intent is
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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Jan 14 '26
Israel has voted against Ukraine, cooperates and does business with Russia, has large amounts of Russian sympathisers.
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
Israel massive war crimes have been going for a while now and the response at the European level has been tepid to say the least. So is there an alternative petition that won't go immediately to the garbage bin that would fit your criteria? I don't see any.
I have really no sympathy for pro-russians but Israel perpetual license to kill is an insane open wound that need some real actions.
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Jan 15 '26
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
I give you an easier way, you go to Israel yourself since you seem so fond of them and leave people talking about European union foreign policies living peacefully in Europe.
See, it's easy to play dumb games.
nothing intelligent to say instead I guess?
how has it got so extraordinary to call to stop the insane killing of civilians ?
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Jan 15 '26
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
Sure, just putting some weight behind asking to not raze completely population centers and kill civilians by the 10s thousands is certainly some extraordinary plan that only mischievous ayatollahs could conceive. Could you be less ridiculous?
You sound exactly like the Rusbots telling everyone supporting Ukraine that they are US lackeys
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Jan 15 '26
May be we should stop execution of civilians in USA before we talk about Iran.
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Jan 15 '26
[deleted]
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Jan 15 '26
We are not in defense treaty with Iran and China. We are not super close ally of Iran and China. We don't fund directly or indirectly those execution in Iran or China.
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u/Guaire1 Jan 15 '26
Because europe isnt actively financing iran quote the opposite, it has it under sanction. Thats why there are no anti iranian protests, because there is no point.
Meanwhile, israel, as well as its genocide. Is being actively supported and financed by western nations
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u/YelmodeMambrino España Jan 14 '26
Signed! Time to show we respect human rights for everyone, no matter the aggressor.
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/Uberbesen Eurobesen Jan 14 '26
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/Uberbesen Eurobesen Jan 14 '26
Yeah so does sinn féin have a bunch of connections with the IRA and overlapping members. Seperatist groups in European countries aren't new. That they disband and no longer see any use in terrorism and instead becoming normalised political groups is a good outcome or do you disagree?
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/Uberbesen Eurobesen Jan 14 '26
So what does them being dumbass contrarian "leftists" have to do with the fact that guy was unjustly imprisoned. That petition isn't about him or the left alliance. The people in that party can all be wrong most of the time, as they seem to be. But correct on this topic.
That the EU probably shouldn't have favourable trade deals with a country that can't stop occupying land of it's neighbors, destabilizing them, committing insane amounts of warcrimes. And that is also a US lapdog run by a far-right wannabe dictator, personally i'm not a big fan of being allies with a US proxy considering the government of both of these is full of crypto fascists
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u/Apathetic-Onion Jan 15 '26
The right in Spain pulls the ETA card even though the terrorist group dissolved in 2018 (after they definitively ceased armed activities in 2011) when they have no arguments to support what they're saying. Isabel Díaz Ayuso, the regional president of Madrid, is a big Trumpist and uses it all the time for literally everything. That's called "todo es ETA" ("everything is ETA"). She isn't an exact copy of Trump because she's more on the conservative-liberal side than on the fascist side, but she's still authoritarian, very populist, hardline zionist and is trying to destroy public services.
So I suspect this user is desperately trying to strike down this anti-genocide initiative with the ETA card (an ad hominem because regardless of who has proposed it, cutting ties with a genocidal state is a must) because they don't support actions taken against Israel that aim at stopping its genocidal campaign and apartheid, so instead they try to divert attention from the real issue.
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u/YelmodeMambrino España Jan 14 '26
Just a quick view on your post and comment history (less than 1mo account) and it’s only anti arab, anti immigrants, pro far-right, pro Israeli propaganda. Using slurs and scapegoats to defend your positions.
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/YelmodeMambrino España Jan 14 '26
Only if you define Europe as Donald Trump and Elon Musk would. So quite the contrary
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Jan 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/YelmodeMambrino España Jan 14 '26
You keep failing to understand that European values are not “a mix of cultural and distinct historical landmarks”, they’re deeply rooted in human dignity, equality, and the rule of law. You also seem to think that world events happen in a vacuum, therefore the EU’s external actions should project said cultural norms and nothing else. You don’t look like a person who value International treaties, human rights and such. So why would anyone let you from all peopledefine what are “European values” ?
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 14 '26
I wish the worst
Yes ?
Precise that "worst" you wish to me.
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Lol, hasbarists can't help but go for the full narcissistic grandiose hate.
Colonial Karen is the most savage of the Karen's.
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Laughing at how transparent and hysterically rabid the Hasbara ziombies are when they see us not being subservient to their supremacist narcissism.
They think they are helping their cause but all they are doing is truly doing all possible to destroy western societal peace.
Signed and shared!
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u/SpongeSquidward Jan 15 '26
Wow! Voting in this thread look about as legitimate as 🇮🇱 eurovision votes...
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u/kneyght Jan 14 '26
Wow, trying really hard to distract from Iran right now. Interesting.
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
well, I don't see how any of this would influence any of what's happening currently in Iran. Really
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
It's only a bad whataboutism.
He doesn't have any argument, so he tries to make me a bot.
Yes, that's pathetic.
EDIT : He blocked me. That's even more pathetic...
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u/kneyght Jan 17 '26
wow, so easy to wind you up. I hope the blood money is worth it.
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 17 '26
Oh, another one that accuse me to be a paid troll...
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u/kneyght Jan 17 '26
Seems to get you ticked off really easy. Let's see how long we can keep this going. Dance monkey, dance!
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 15 '26
https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2025/000005_en#
Registered 25/11/2025
You're bad at trolling.
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u/kneyght Jan 15 '26
posted 1d ago
as are you.
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Collection start date 13/01/2026
You're even worst than I though.
EDIT : Since you block me, my answer :
The Mollah regime MUST fall. And I hope the revolution will work this time.
Now that's your straw-man is dead, can you stop trying to make us forget the crimes of Israel ?
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u/kneyght Jan 15 '26
Looks like "missing the point" is a key part of training at the IRGC troll camp.
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u/SpongeSquidward Jan 14 '26
Signed, thank you OP for shining the light of hope in the world. Israel traded a genocide for a slightly slower genocide, no amount of bots or bought social media platforms will change my mind. We need a free Palestine and an EU-Palestine association agreement.
Criticising the people who put this proposal forward looks like a desperate attempt to stop this. I accepted this proposal on it's merit, even if I don't agree about everything with the people that propsed it.
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u/MuchUserSuchTaken Jan 15 '26
Is israel even in europe? Does it even have any territory in europe? It seems a bit silly to add a country that is so damn far away into the european union, and that's not even touching on the shady stuff they're doing.
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u/NA_0_10_never_forget Jan 14 '26
Iranian distraction propaganda.
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u/Specialk3533 Jan 14 '26
That would be impressive foresight, the petition was registered in November 2025.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 14 '26
And NOW it's being pushed?
And yeah, parties literally paid by Iran like this n my own country
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 15 '26
It was only approved for signatures a few hours before the post.
Here's your tinfoil hat.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26
おもちゃの死
This is the absolutely-european user that has created the post where you are discussing right now.
Could you check if he is a usual user here? You can't. It's hidden.
I have seen same "public" users pushing this in my own country's subreddits. Probably yours too.
Definitely a totally organic Reddit moment. A sensitive geopolitical petition, perfectly framed, instantly boosted, emotionally loaded, and circulating across multiple subs at once. We’ve never seen that pattern before.
Just as a reminder: • Russia has been repeatedly caught running bot and troll networks to amplify petitions, protests, and “grassroots” outrage around Ukraine, NATO, energy policy, and EU cohesion.
• Iran has been exposed using fake accounts and coordinated campaigns to push anti-Israel narratives, especially after flare-ups involving Gaza. Meta and Twitter/X have published takedown reports on this. Literally, many of the most important posters defending scottish independence were found out to be from Iran.
• China routinely boosts “citizens initiatives” and NGO-style campaigns in Europe when they align with its foreign policy goals, while suppressing any equivalent scrutiny of its own actions.
• Qatar has spent years funding NGOs, media outlets, and influence networks in Europe to shape discourse around Israel, Hamas, and the Middle East more broadly.
But sure. "tinfoil hat"
But, oh, WAIT!!!! "It was only approved for signatures a few hours before the post"
So that completely rules out coordination, pre-planning, mailing lists, NGO networks, activist groups, Telegram channels, Discord servers, and yes, automated amplification. Of course.
You do realize that approval time ≠ start of mobilization, right? These initiatives are drafted, shared, translated, and pre-positioned weeks or months in advance. The moment they’re approved, they’re pushed everywhere at once.
So no, “a few hours old” doesn’t magically make it organic or spontaneous. It just means the launch button was pressed recently.
Again: this isn’t “everyone is a bot”. It’s “this ecosystem is primed, coordinated, and selectively activated”. Pretending otherwise is either naïve or willfully blind.
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 16 '26
Here something to rock your world :
Fuck Russia, glory to Ukraine.
Fuck China, Uyghurs persecution won't be forgiven nor forgotten.
Fuck Israel, the genocide won't be forgiven nor forgotten.
NATO would be better without 'murica.
Fuck Trump, Greenland only belongs to its citizens.
What am I now ? A bot ? Or a human actually answering to you while taking a shit ?
Last part is true, I'm actually in my toilet taking a shit 😅
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u/Juan20455 Jan 16 '26
Why do you have hidden your post history?
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 16 '26
Privacy.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 16 '26
... OK?
... So people can't see the post history of Omochanoshi?
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 16 '26
No.
You don't need to know my post history.
I won't give up my privacy only because some random dudes from internet want to know my post history.
I have nothing to show you. I have nothing to show to anyone.
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u/CitoyenEuropeen Verhofstadt fan club Jan 16 '26
Mods can, and u/Omochanoshi is a human. Not sure if ultra europeanist, but looks okay.
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 15 '26
That's Japanese, not Chinese, and he is active in YUROP and various French subs.
I understand your concerns, hiding history is a trademark of bots now, and it may look that way, but this one user has been active for a long time and an advocate of Palestine freedom and rights for a long time, enough to recognize him.
Best way it's to probably show some of his activity, 1, 2, 3, 4
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26
How can you see his history?
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Simply by using the same subreddit as me.
There's, your tinfoil hat.
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u/MartinBP България Jan 14 '26
Left-wing radicals supporting full-blown dictatorships are trying to once again attack our only ally in the region. Go to Moscow and stay there.
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Jan 14 '26
"Ally" for what exactly? Why don't you go to Moscow and stay there. With your Israeli friends.
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u/KawaiiGee Eesti Jan 14 '26
Counter argument, genocide is bad and we shouldn't support it. If Israel wants to keep their alliances, maybe don't commit genocide. 🤷
From where I'm standing, I don't see any allies in that region
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
the most unhinged is that some people seem to loose all rationality or decency when it's about Israel.
Call for Israel to stop killing/bombing/starving/imprisoning arbitrarily/... civilians by the 10's thousand? now you are some monster or ayatollah worshiper to even think something like that.
speechless
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u/suitorarmorfan Jan 14 '26
Is the “ally” part in the room with us right now? As an Italian, they were quite literally spying on us
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u/Ex_aeternum Jan 14 '26
What exactly did that "ally" ever do to us? Did the Mossad take out any Russian general?
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 14 '26
Well, they did assassinations on European territories, sometimes of the wrong people, they spied on us, they tried to do false flags on us.
Helped influence an immigration crises in Europe.
.... I'm trying to remember a positive one wait up ....
They want to push for mass surveillance on europe! ... oh wait that's not a good one either.
I'll get back to you later.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 14 '26
That question assumes an “ally” is only useful if it assassinates people on your behalf. That’s not how alliances work.
Israel provides the US and its allies with high-value intelligence on the Middle East, Iran, jihadist networks, weapons proliferation, cyber threats, and terrorism. That intelligence has repeatedly saved Western lives. Most of that never makes headlines for obvious reasons
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u/Ex_aeternum Jan 14 '26
We wouldn't need that "support" if we just kept out of the Middle East, and especially Israel's actions there.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 14 '26
Ah yes, the classic “Europe would be peaceful if only the US stayed out of the Middle East” take.
Sure, let’s ignore decades of local conflicts, dictators, Iran, ISIS, oil wars, and the Cold War. Clearly the world only exists because of Israel.
Europe has a nice view from the sidelines, must be convenient to think geopolitics is just “stay out and everything’s fine.
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u/Ex_aeternum Jan 15 '26
dictators
Brought into power and supported by whom? Correct, in most cases the US.
Iran
Who overthrew Mohammed Mossadegh, the only ever democraticly elected head of government in Iran? That's right, it was a CIA/MI5 operation. Who propped up the Shah afterwards, including supplying one of the world's largest militaries, and a repressive secret service.
ISIS
Which formed in a power vacuum after the US invasion of Iraq and the following civil war.
oil wars
There was mainly one oil war in the Middle East, and it was the First Gulf War. Where the US supplied both sides with weapons.
Cold War
In which the US supported anyone claiming to be "anti-communist". Most famously, the Mujahedeen.
stay out and everything’s fine.
Well tell me what improved by getting involved?
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong
“Dictators – brought into power by whom?” Some by the US, some by the USSR, many by local coups, monarchies, tribes, or armies that predate the US as a global power. Nasser, Assad (father and son), Saddam initially, Gaddafi, the Saudi monarchy, the Iranian clerics, the Houthis — pretending the US hand-picked every dictator in the region is infantilizing local agency. Dictators don’t exist because foreigners snap their fingers; they exist because local power structures allow them to.
“Iran – Mossadegh” Yes, the CIA and MI6 overthrew him in 1953. That’s not disputed. What you keep omitting is that Mossadegh was not some spotless liberal democrat frozen in amber. He came from the National Front, a nationalist coalition, not a liberal-democratic party as we’d understand it today. In 1953 he pushed a referendum to dissolve parliament that gave him near-absolute emergency powers with no end in sight. The referendum itself was deeply irregular, with absurd margins and no real secrecy. People were separated in the groups in the referendum where they supported the "yes" or the "no", and the ones choosing the "no" had to go to different places. The result? 99,6% of people "voted" for him? He was definitely popular, righT? Even Saddam Hussein only got 99,0% of the vote in the referedums he organized. He also pardoned the assassins of his predecessor, Razmara, to keep radical allies on his side. That’s not exactly a healthy democratic norm either. Sorry to shatter the fairy tale that Iran was a stable democracy until the evil West ruined it. That idea only appears on reddit
“ISIS – power vacuum after Iraq” Partially true, and also deeply incomplete. ISIS didn’t appear out of thin air in 2003. It grew out of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Salafi-jihadist ideology, sectarian violence, Syrian civil war chaos, regional funding networks, and local Sunni grievances. If “power vacuum = ISIS”, then explain why ISIS didn’t emerge in every failed state on Earth. Ideology and local actors matter. Again: agency.
“Oil wars – mainly the First Gulf War” That’s just historically illiterate. Oil shaped British and French involvement long before the US. It shaped Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and regional borders themselves. The Iran–Iraq War was soaked in oil politics. The Gulf monarchies exist because of oil. And “the US supplied both sides” is a meme-level oversimplification of arms markets during the Cold War, not a serious analysis.
“Cold War – US supported anyone anti-communist” Yes. And the USSR supported anyone anti-Western. That’s what a global ideological conflict looks like. Reducing that to “the West caused everything” while erasing Soviet, Chinese, Arab nationalist, and Islamist agency is selective memory, not history.
“So what improved by getting involved?” Shipping lanes stayed open. Regional wars didn’t escalate into direct superpower conflict. Saddam didn’t annex Kuwait. ISIS lost its territorial caliphate. Iran doesn’t openly control the entire region. For starters. Do you want more?
You can argue the costs outweighed the benefits, but pretending nothing improved is just emotional rhetoric.
The common thread in all your answers is this: locals have no agency, ideology doesn’t matter, history starts in the West, and everything bad is intervention. It’s a comforting worldview. It removes responsibility from regional actors and turns geopolitics into a morality play. I bet you think the armenian genocide was just a Mossad plot.
Reality is messier. And less convenient
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u/Guaire1 Jan 15 '26
Literally every single thing ypu mentioned is a result of intervention in the middle east
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26
Ah yes, of course.
Iran existed because of the US. Sunni–Shia conflict too. Tribal rivalries, Ottoman collapse, Arab nationalism, Ba’athism, oil geography, the Suez Canal, and centuries of imperial politics all magically appeared the moment Washington discovered the Middle East.
ISIS? Definitely not rooted in regional jihadist ideology or post-Arab Spring chaos — it spawned fully formed from a Pentagon briefing.
Iran–Saudi rivalry? CIA spreadsheet.
The Cold War? Started in the desert, apparently.
This is the most comforting worldview imaginable: remove “intervention” and history politely stops happening. No agency, no local actors, no internal power struggles. Just a giant “US did it” button. Armenian genocide? A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y because of Europe. Turkey would NEVER do that. It would be a paradise.
It’s geopolitics for people who don’t want to deal with geopolitics.
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u/Guaire1 Jan 15 '26
Iran as a theocracy only exists because the USA overthrew the only democratocally elected head of state in Iran and put a hated Shah into power.
ISIS also only exists because of the vaccumm created by the American invasion of Iraq.
The saudi iran rivalry is obviously not an exclusively american phenomenom, but it lnly grows important because the USA has been supporting the fundamentalist wahabbist in exchange of oil. Without that support Saudi Arabia wouldnt be a big player, much like it wasnt beforehand, as other nations in the midfle east had as much oil whilst being far less radical.
Ands its hilarious how you try using "cold war" as an argument when much of it consisted in the US funding any random radical so long as those radicals said that they were gonna kill commies first.
Honestly, the fact that you didnt answer the other commenter who made a far longer response says it all.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26
Fine, I'll just copy-paste what I said the other user:
Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong
“Dictators – brought into power by whom?” Some by the US, some by the USSR, many by local coups, monarchies, tribes, or armies that predate the US as a global power. Nasser, Assad (father and son), Saddam initially, Gaddafi, the Saudi monarchy, the Iranian clerics, the Houthis — pretending the US hand-picked every dictator in the region is infantilizing local agency. Dictators don’t exist because foreigners snap their fingers; they exist because local power structures allow them to.
“Iran – Mossadegh” Yes, the CIA and MI6 overthrew him in 1953. That’s not disputed. What you keep omitting is that Mossadegh was not some spotless liberal democrat frozen in amber. He came from the National Front, a nationalist coalition, not a liberal-democratic party as we’d understand it today. In 1953 he pushed a referendum to dissolve parliament that gave him near-absolute emergency powers with no end in sight. The referendum itself was deeply irregular, with absurd margins and no real secrecy. People were separated in the groups in the referendum where they supported the "yes" or the "no", and the ones choosing the "no" had to go to different places. The result? 99,6% of people "voted" for him? He was definitely popular, righT? Even Saddam Hussein only got 99,0% of the vote in the referedums he organized. He also pardoned the assassins of his predecessor, Razmara, to keep radical allies on his side. That’s not exactly a healthy democratic norm either. Sorry to shatter the fairy tale that Iran was a stable democracy until the evil West ruined it. That idea only appears on reddit
“ISIS – power vacuum after Iraq” Partially true, and also deeply incomplete. ISIS didn’t appear out of thin air in 2003. It grew out of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Salafi-jihadist ideology, sectarian violence, Syrian civil war chaos, regional funding networks, and local Sunni grievances. If “power vacuum = ISIS”, then explain why ISIS didn’t emerge in every failed state on Earth. Ideology and local actors matter. Again: agency.
“Oil wars – mainly the First Gulf War” That’s just historically illiterate. Oil shaped British and French involvement long before the US. It shaped Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and regional borders themselves. The Iran–Iraq War was soaked in oil politics. The Gulf monarchies exist because of oil. And “the US supplied both sides” is a meme-level oversimplification of arms markets during the Cold War, not a serious analysis.
“Cold War – US supported anyone anti-communist” Yes. And the USSR supported anyone anti-Western. That’s what a global ideological conflict looks like. Reducing that to “the West caused everything” while erasing Soviet, Chinese, Arab nationalist, and Islamist agency is selective memory, not history.
“So what improved by getting involved?” Shipping lanes stayed open. Regional wars didn’t escalate into direct superpower conflict. Saddam didn’t annex Kuwait. ISIS lost its territorial caliphate. Iran doesn’t openly control the entire region. For starters. Do you want more?
You can argue the costs outweighed the benefits, but pretending nothing improved is just emotional rhetoric.
The common thread in all your answers is this: locals have no agency, ideology doesn’t matter, history starts in the West, and everything bad is intervention. It’s a comforting worldview. It removes responsibility from regional actors and turns geopolitics into a morality play. I bet you think the armenian genocide was just a Mossad plot.
Reality is messier. And less convenient
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u/The_memeperson Nederland Jan 14 '26
attack our only ally in the region.
Isn't it hypocritical to stand for European values and preach about human rights while looking away when Israel violates human rights because they are our ally.
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u/Withering_to_Death Yuropean flumen corpus separatum Jan 14 '26
Exactly! I feel the same towards the usians! I don't think we're allies anymore, since they "forget" what values (at least on paper) makes us similar! Personally I believe, after all this time, Israel should continue to exist, but under a new government. So two states without likud and hamas! Same with the orange usians, we can try being "friends" after you clean your house
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u/Slaviverse Jan 14 '26
If you want me to encourage peace, how about aligning ourselves with the Middle East’s only secular democracy, rather than appeasing jihadists. Who are also funded by the Islamic republics of Iran, whose president openly proclaimed war against us.
How about instead of trying to alienate Israel, we alienate the Islamic republic until the Shah returns.
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 14 '26
Israel is currently committing a genocide.
Even if it's a democracy, it's still a criminal country.
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Coming to clarify the gaslighting they want you to fall for:
The Zionist state is a democracy as much as any apartheid can be.
That is zero, rather apartheids deny a democratic rule of law, that entails that every citizen is equal under the law of the land.
Isntreal, hasbara for westerners aside, is a supremacist state, and one that even demanded to transform Judaism from religion to nation, despite lacking all cohesion as such: no common language or customs, aside, indeed, the religious ones.
The hasbara is a narcissistic nationalist nightmare, hence their relentless gaslighting, they need to believe in this fascistic, convenient, very European, ridefinition of their identity, so they have always tried to appear as per the political vogue of the times: colonialists and proudly racist, then socialist, then capitalistic and consumeristic and hedonistic, and now back to openly fascist, like the rest of us.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 14 '26
Ah yes, the classic “I reject liberal democracy, nation-states, and self-determination, but only when Jews do it” argument. Always a timeless hit.
So Israel is “not a democracy” because it doesn’t meet your metaphysical definition of equality, yet somehow regimes that don’t even pretend to have elections don’t seem to trigger the same philosophical outrage. Curious how that works.
Calling Israel an “apartheid” while Arab citizens vote, sit in parliament, serve as judges, diplomats, and doctors, and while political parties openly hostile to the state itself are legally represented, really stretches the term until it means “a country I morally dislike”. Apartheid wasn’t “imperfect democracy”. It was no democracy at all. Words are supposed to describe reality, not replace it.
And the idea that Jews lack “cohesion” because they didn’t all share one language or custom is especially rich. Italians spoke dozens of dialects before unification. Germans weren’t unified until the 19th century. Arabs share a language and still have 20+ mutually hostile states. But suddenly national identity requires total cultural homogeneity when Jews are involved. What an extraordinary coincidence.
The “Judaism transformed from religion to nation” line is also doing a lot of ideological work. Jews have been described as a people, a nation, and an ethno-religious group by both Jews and non-Jews for over two thousand years. Ironically, European antisemitism insisted on that distinction long before Zionism ever existed. Zionism didn’t invent Jewish peoplehood; it responded to centuries of others insisting Jews were never “just a religion”
As for the “hasbara narcissistic nightmare”: translating “you disagree with me” into “gaslighting” is a neat trick. It saves you from having to engage with history, law, or facts. Anyone who doesn’t accept your framing is just brainwashed. Very convenient, very unfalsifiable, very on-trend.
And the finale is perfect: Israel is accused of reinventing itself to match “the political vogue of the times”… while you yourself recycle every fashionable label of the last 20 years: colonial, fascist, supremacist, gaslighting. It’s almost performance art.
You’re not critiquing Israel. You’re projecting a European ideological psychodrama onto a Middle Eastern country and calling it analysis. It sounds profound, but once you strip away the buzzwords, what’s left is the same old idea: Jews don’t get to define themselves, but everyone else does.
And somehow, you still think that makes you the anti-racist.
And, to absolutely no one’s surprise, this thread is full of dozens and dozens of messages from you insulting and attacking pretty much everyone. Another person for whom the Israel-Palestine conflict seems to be the center of their entire existence.
Meanwhile, thousands of Iranians are dying right now fighting for their freedom. But I’m sure, in your worldview, they’re all just Zionist agents and therefore not worth even a second of your attention.
Or maybe you are just a paid shill
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Your projective accusations just speak of your constitutional dishonestly.
...and your side is so hysterical, not even Americans sound that willfully illiterate and yet transparently manipulative.
The more you play narcissistic victim, the more the world will just see you for how you chose to act. Dishonestly and rabidly.
And yes obviously only hasbarists are the documented paid shills. Again, your accusations are a narcissist confession
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u/Juan20455 Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Ah, yes, classic: declare everyone else a narcissist, shill, or hysterical manipulator, and suddenly that settles the debate. Elegant.
And of course. The moment someone actually analyzes your words and demonstrates not just how racist they are, but also how blatantly ignorant, the only appropriate response is… a tirade of insults. Brilliant strategy.
Let me get this straight: two weeks of silence, then about two hundred posts or not insulting everyone, a whole thread of drama, and the instant someone holds a mirror up to your ideas, suddenly it’s “dishonesty,” “narcissism,” “rabid behavior,” and “paid shill confessions”? Fascinating.
It’s almost admirable how you’ve turned being fact-checked and called out into an existential crisis worthy of a psychoanalytic report. Who needs debate when you can just insult anyone who proves you wrong? Truly, a masterclass in intellectual self-preservation.
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u/KindaQuite Italia Jan 15 '26
You're not from Europe and your entire profile is dedicated to antisemitism.
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 15 '26
That used to be the ultimate accusation, it was incredibly serious and wordy of social exclusion just for it's mention.
But you guys use it so much against people or actions that are not actual antisemitism, that it lost most of it's meaning.
It's a huge disservice to the actual victims of the real antisemitism, who now won't get as much visibility for their very real and serious problem, because people like you, like to claim everything as such.
I now wonder, how many accusations of antisemitism did I take at face value, that were lies in the past...
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 15 '26
Says the one with the hidden comments on his profile.
All you have is more fascistic, rabid, crass, personal attack without an argument but rather the confession that your lack of moral compass impedes you to understand that,
Get this:
Reddit agrees with me that Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing.
I ain't from Europe now, not just not Italian. Lol. This is what you have to erase me? Lol
Know what, You are maybe real, but it's sad because it means you are violently illiterate and know what, people like you are the reason why Italians are rarely proud of their country.
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u/Juan20455 Jan 14 '26
Calling it a “genocide” doesn’t make it one. Under international law, genocide requires intent to destroy a people as such, not just high civilian casualties in a war. No court, not the ICJ, not the ICC, has ruled that Israel is committing genocide. That matters more than slogans.
Israel is fighting a war against Hamas, a group that openly calls for Israel’s destruction, embeds itself in civilian areas, and started this round by massacring civilians. Civilian deaths are tragic, but they are not automatic proof of genocide, especially when Israel issues evacuations, warnings, and targets a belligerent force.
If being accused of war crimes made a country “criminal”, then virtually every country that has fought an urban war, including the US, UK, France, or Russia, would be a “criminal country” by default. That’s not how international law works.
You can criticize Israel’s conduct, specific operations, or proportionality. That’s legitimate. But flattening everything into “genocide” and “criminal country” is rhetoric, not legal or factual analysis.
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
ok, so if say "genocide" is replaced with massive war crimes widely attested against the civilian population. Without any means to escape it, with almost complete food blockade.
what is your answer now? is it only to play words games?
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26
Sure. No more word games.
OK, let's see what I can answer.
Food blockade, for example. Let's talk about the GHF
The GHF is one of the most serious efforts to actually eradicate Hamas since the war started. The idea is that Hamas has been stealing a large percent of incoming aid to Gaza, stockpiling as much as they need in their tunnels, while selling the left overs of the free aid to civilians. Then using that money to keep paying it's members and recruit new desperate ones. [Example https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bydb7zgit, another one directly from Gazans https://youtu.be/NBjvYkNzuAA?si=QRwOH5Rhd0Y2HGuB, and even the UN accidently admitted that at the start before cowardly deleting the truth https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-refugee-agency-says-hamas-stole-fuel-and-medications-from-its-gaza-premises/]
The pressure on the GHF to stop operating has been extreme. Lies have been regularly spread about massacres https://youtu.be/p-zfQBfpqlw?si=KMBnH4kEtChImTRK, some of them are confirmed to have been lieshttps://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-856186, some of them were confirmed to be caused by Hamashttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnJK0j6beao. Hamas has also been openly threatening GHF membershttps://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-aid-group-says-hamas-threats-to-staff-kept-distribution-hubs-closed-on-saturday/ and already attacked some Palestinians https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-ghf-says-hamas-brutally-attacked-aid-workers-at-least-5-massacred affiliated with the plan.
Despite this, the plan has been very successful. With over 50 million meals already delivered https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-859299. Directly to civilians and for free. Which as you expect means Hamas is getting even more desperate. And as we see here their allies continue to put up new pressure, trying to stop it.
OK, let's talk about "massive war crimes". What are today's countries that have had to fight urban war?. Russia, US, and Israel. The US, you know, the country with the most advanced and experienced army in the world to kill about 3000 Islamic State terrorists, they destroyed 80% of a city of 500.0000 people prewar according to United Nations. They had boots in the ground, kurds allies, total air control, all the time in the world, etc. The Russian army, the second most experienced army, and arguibly the second strongest, bombed Grozny to the stone edge to occupy the city. They were facing just about a few hundred insurgents. They did the same thing with Mauripol, killing 20.000 civilians in just a single city. They were facing less than a 1000 ukranians with weapons, half of them not even real soldiers.
Israel is facing about 40.000 terrorists with experience, fighting in multiple cities, and more kilometres in tunnels, according to both Hamas and the IDF, than any city in the whole world has kilometres of metro system.
Urban warfare is HELL. UN estimates that in urban combat 7 civilians for each soldier killed. According to US and UK intelligence the ratio in this war is 1-1. That's something almost impossible in urban warfare.
HOW are they doing it? How are they making far, far less casualties in urban warfare than Russia or the US
"Israel provided days and then weeks of warnings, as well as time for civilians to evacuate multiple cities in northern Gaza before starting the main air-ground attack of urban areas. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) employed their practice of calling and texting ahead of an air strike as well as roof-knocking, where they drop small munitions on the roof of a building notifying everyone to evacuate the building before a strike."
"No military has ever implemented any of these practices in war before."
"The IDF has also air-dropped flyers to give civilians instructions on when and how to evacuate, including with safe corridors. (The U.S. implemented these tactics in its second battle of Fallujah and 2016-2017 operation against ISIS in Mosul.) Israel has dropped over 520,000 pamphlets, and broadcast over radio and through social media messages to provide instruction for civilians to leave combat areas."
"Israel's use of real phone calls to civilians in combat areas (19,734), SMS texts (64,399) and pre-recorded calls (almost 6 million) to provide instructions on evacuations is also unprecedented."
You can criticize specific Israeli actions, decisions, or mistakes. That’s legitimate. But when you look at the actual facts of urban warfare, the comparisons with other modern wars, the civilian-to-combatant ratios, and the unprecedented measures taken to warn and evacuate civilians, the claim that Israel is committing “massive war crimes” as a matter of policy simply does not hold up.
Israel is fighting one of the most complex urban wars in modern history against a deeply embedded terrorist force, and by every available military metric it is doing far more than any other country has ever done to reduce civilian harm.
Meanwhile, real genocides and mass-slaughter campaigns are happening in places like Yemen and Sudan, with millions dead or displaced, and they barely register in public discourse. Iran has killed at least 12,000 young protesters, likely more, and many of the same voices obsessively condemning Israel refuse even to acknowledge it. Francesca Albanese, for example, while dismissing the mass murders and rapes by Hamas ("we have to look at the context") has even refused to talk or condemn the massacres in Iran.
That contrast matters. It shows that this is not purely about humanitarian concern, but about selective outrage. Israel is not being judged by the standards applied to other countries at war, but by standards applied to no one else. And that says far more about the critics than about Israel.
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26
There is almost no one in Europe going in every media to defend what is going on Iran, Yemen or Sudan and trying to shame or ban the contrary opinion. So stop with the false equivalence. there is outrage because it has been going on for decades and Israel is getting an almost total free pass about it while getting harsher and harsher.
warning population, good, but useless when every place is bombed in the end anyway.
And stating time and time again the Hamas as a very strong terrorist organization while Netanyahou himself organized their preeminence against any alternative to sabotage any peace agreement possibility is a bit hard to swallow.
it's also symptomatic that most of your sources are Israeli themselves (and Newsweek, seriously??)
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Ah yes, “false equivalence”, the magic spell that lets you ignore inconvenient comparisons.
First, the idea that Israel gets an “almost total free pass” in Europe is simply detached from reality. Israel is constantly condemned in European media, parliaments, universities, NGOs, UN bodies, and streets. There are protests every week, resolutions every year, and wall-to-wall coverage. If that’s a “free pass”, it’s a very strange one. Meanwhile, Yemen, Sudan, Syria, or Iran barely break into the news unless casualties hit absurd levels. MILLIONS of people have died on Yemen or Sudan. Let me give you an assignment. Go to ANY news for today, on ANY NEWSSITE IN THE WORLD. Is the massacre on the news? No? Why not? The killing continues. Yesterday? The day before? Last week? Last month? I am not saying people support the massacres on YEmen or Sudan. It's that N-O-B-O-D-Y C-A-R-E-S. You, for example. You are complaining about Israel. WHEN HAVE YOU COMPLAINED ABOUT YEMEN OR SUDAN IN THE LAST YEAR? Please, send me a single post.
Fine. You don't care about Yemen or Sudan. No one cares, honestly. Who cares if millions of people die? You clearly don't if it's not Israel. What about Iran? 12.000 young people exterminated like rats in three days. That's about 100 times faster than the killing on Gaza, which was a real war. And here it's literally the army gunning down on young people that want freedom. You SURELY have written about it here on reddit, right? Please show me. I am not saying that you support the killing. I want to know if you care. Please, show it to me. Any post. Like, any.
On warnings being “useless”: they are only useless if your standard is zero civilian harm, which no urban war in history has ever achieved. Warnings don’t make war clean, they reduce harm. The fact that civilians still die doesn’t negate the effort; it shows how brutal urban warfare is when one side embeds itself among civilians and tunnels under cities.
About “everything being bombed anyway”: that’s rhetoric, not analysis. If Israel were flattening Gaza indiscriminately, casualty ratios would look like Grozny, Mariupol, or Mosul. They don’t. That difference doesn’t happen by accident.
On Hamas and Netanyahu: yes, Netanyahu made cynical political choices in the past. Many leaders do. That does not magically transform Hamas into a weak, accidental, or illegitimate threat today. Hamas is a heavily armed, ideologically committed organization that chose mass murder, rape, and hostage-taking. Political miscalculation doesn’t erase agency. Also, Hamas took power in 2006, when Netanyahu wasn't in power. So I don't even know what you are talking about. And Netanyahu, was forced by Israeli society to offer tens of times peace terms, which were sabotaged over and over by Hamas.
As for sources: dismissing information because it’s “Israeli” is not skepticism, it’s selective disbelief. You can check the sources and see if there is a single one wrong. I cited military analysis because we’re discussing military conduct. And yes, Newsweek, a mainstream Western outlet publishing an opinion by the chair of urban warfare studies at West Point, the most important military academy in the US army, the most important military on planet earth. We are talking about one of the most important experts of urban warfare IN THE WHOLe WORLD. Maybe the most important one. You don’t have to agree with it, but waving it away with “seriously??” isn’t an argument.
You say this isn’t about banning opinions, yet anyone who applies comparative standards or military context is immediately accused of “word games” or moral failure. That’s not serious debate; that’s moral theater.
Criticize Israel all you want. Scrutinize every strike if you wish. But pretending this war exists outside history, warfare, or comparison is exactly how analysis gets replaced by slogans.
And honestly, stop acting like you care. We can all see how much you care about Yemen, Sudan or Iran
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Syria is (was?) sanctioned, Sudan is sanctioned, Iran is sanctioned, some Yemenite factions are sanctioned, by EU.
Israel? lot of talk, lot of protest as you said, some reprimand by some politicians in some countries, some symbolic gestures, but as of now nothing substantial. that's the free pass.
And here, you and a few other people are going batshit crazy accusing everyone to be Iranian stooges for signing a petition talking about suspending a largely symbolical agreement as an additional pressure.
yes sure Hamas is a terrorist organization, urban warfare is deadly, and all that, but that's missing all the large context that Israel isn't just some innocent victim in this clusterfuck.
edit: about Newsweek, I just don't read anything there, experience demonstrated it's a waste of time, clickbait, empty shell instead of article, maybe different in this case or before, but as of now it's worthless, so I don't even click
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u/Juan20455 Jan 15 '26
Ah, sanctions again. The universal moral cheat code.
You keep listing sanctions like they’re proof of global moral concern, but you still haven’t answered the actual question I asked. Not once. Not even accidentally.
Why do Yemen, Sudan, Syria, and Iran barely exist in public discourse, media coverage, protests, petitions, or moral outrage today? Not in theory. Not “in general”. Today. Right now.
You didn’t answer that. Instead, you changed the subject to EU sanctions, which are easy, cheap, and mostly symbolic when applied to isolated or already-collapsed states. Sanctioning Iran or Sudan costs Europe almost nothing. Sanctioning Israel is a real policy choice with real consequences. That’s not a “free pass”, that’s basic geopolitics.
And notice what else you didn’t answer:
• You didn’t address the media obsession asymmetry.
• You didn’t address the absence of protests, petitions, or shaming campaigns for Yemen or Sudan.
• You didn’t address Iran killing thousands of young protesters in days.
You just pretended those points weren’t there.
Instead, you went for “you’re going batshit crazy” and “Iranian stooges”. Convenient. Much easier than explaining why Israel triggers nonstop outrage while far worse atrocities trigger silence.
About “Israel isn’t an innocent victim”: no one claimed it is. That’s a strawman you keep hugging because it’s easier than engaging with proportionality, military context, or comparative standards. Somehow “context” always explains violence against Israel but never violence by its enemies.
On Hamas and Netanyahu: again, you didn’t engage. Hamas existed, ruled Gaza, and chose armed jihad long before Netanyahu returned to power. Political cynicism doesn’t erase Hamas’s agency or its choices. You just waved that away.
And the Newsweek part is actually perfect. “I don’t read it, therefore it’s worthless.” You openly admit you didn’t even click the source — written by the chair of urban warfare studies at West Point — and yet you feel confident dismissing it. That’s not critical thinking; that’s ideological filtering.
So let’s be clear: you’re not arguing that Israel gets a free pass. You’re arguing that Israel should be the only country permanently on trial, regardless of comparisons, history, or facts — while Yemen, Sudan, Syria, and Iran remain background noise.
And the most telling part? You still haven’t answered the original challenge. Not one word on it.
That silence says more than your sanctions list ever could.
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u/l0-c Grumpystan 🇪🇺 Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
for exactly the same reason you are taking so much energy at defending Israel.
Cultural, personal, historical political, economical and in theory values ties are much stronger with Israel, that's why people feel it so infuriating that nothing substantial get done about this situation. and it has been going like this for more than half a century. I'm not saying that the other sides are some kind of angels, or have no responsibility in it, but when Israeli ministers call for genocide, when Israeli military kill people out of boredom on cam, almost nothing get done, you can't argue that the Hamas isn't put on every terrorist listing and nothing is done against it.
You are talking about people not caring about anything else, first as a personal matter you don't know anything about me, but I post for the first time in more than one year on something about Israel/Palestine and your first reaction is to dismiss anything because I would only care about Israel for some obscure reasons instead of equally among all victims of oppression. Second, that's not a sound argument, following your reasoning nothing would be done ever.
All the other countries you named are already sanctioned. Stop pretending like no one is talking about or doing anything about Iran, that's not true. for Yemen and even more Sudan and Libya sure they are not talked about that much, so is your argument that we should talk more about them or only less about Palestine?
As you said sanctions are cheap, but except putting boots on the ground there isn't much else to do, and as you said it could have consequences with Israel. What are you advocating really? sending military to Iran and Sudan? You said sanctions are mostly useless? I guess a lot of entities in Europe would have liked to buy cheap Iranian oil if sanctions are so useless.
In the end, what is really your point? that what Israel is doing now is all fine and good and business should just continue as usual and your point about Sudan, Iran and Yemen is just that we should care as much as for them, that is not much?
Or is it that European union should do more as well against dictator and war criminal in Iran, Yemen and Sudan? like doing what exactly?
edit: about Newsweek, you really didn't even try to understand what I wrote. it has nothing ideological, I read source I totally disagree with. it's not the problem with Newsweek. the problem is that it is a really low value publication, I got tired of looking at their articles about Ukraine war only to find out that the title was misleading and the article was devoid of any substance, time and time again, and in the best case it was just some reashing of better source they didn't link too. you could just have linked to an original source from WestPoint in this case. I just said I won't lose any more of my time reading anything from Newsweek
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u/SpringFell Jan 14 '26
According to the United Nations (https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ocha-humanitarian-situation-update-351-gaza-strip/):
"According to the MoH in Gaza, between 17 and 29 December, 17 Palestinians were killed ... MoH reported that since the ceasefire, 414 Palestinians have been killed."
How can you say "Israel is currently committing a genocide" in view of those figures?
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 14 '26
https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu
Allegedly responsible for the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare and of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts from at least 8 October 2023 until at least 20 May 2024.
- The overwhelming nature and scale of Israel’s assault on Gaza and the destructive conditions of life it has inflicted reveal an intent to physically destroy Palestinians as a group. This report finds that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the threshold indicating the commission of the following acts of genocide against Palestinians in Gaza has been met: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to groups’ members; and deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. Genocidal acts were approved and given effect following statements of genocidal intent issued by senior military and government officials.
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u/SpringFell Jan 14 '26
You don't seem to understand the question. Your quotations don't refer to what is currently going on.
I can understand how someone could say a genocide was being committed but currently isn't. And I can understand how someone else could say a war (not a genocide) was being fought but currently isn't.
But how can you say a genocide is currently being committed?
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Listen, nobody believes you are in good faith at this point and it's truly offensive the way you mock the meaning of words to serve an agenda that ...only gives away you have no capacity for moral reasoning and I fear people like this with the right to vote.
But to clarify that we are not as stupid as you think we are
You are deliberately mixing the concept of genocide with the one of cease-fire, and even attempting to portray all those murders during a cease fire as ... Fantastical proof that a hundred years of documented colonial oppression and theft has not been happening.
And you expect anyone to buy it????
Do you personally want to steal land from your neighbour or what is it? European racist supremacy?
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u/SpringFell Jan 14 '26
You seem to be mixing many different things up and making little sense. I'll look elsewhere to find out.
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
The fact that you think what you wrote is an argument rather proves how severe your lack of morals is, to the point where it takes willful ignorance and kind of plain stupidity, or assuming we are all stupid, which I guess is the one.
Well, it's not working, you only give away your antisocial attempt at machiavelian manipulation.
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u/SpringFell Jan 14 '26
I'm trying understand why some people think a genocide is currently taking place. Baselessly questioning people's motives or morality, because they don't share the same opinion yet, is not going to help win them over.
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Jan 14 '26
I will like to understand why do you want to convince yourself and others that there isn't a genocide?
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u/SpringFell Jan 14 '26
I'm interested in the facts. It seems odd to me to say "Israel is currently committing a genocide" when the figures don't seem to show that. There may be figures I haven't seen, as it is not a topic I have paid much attention to.
I am wondering whether people who think a genocide took place genuinely do think, based on facts, that it is now continuing, or whether they feel that claiming it is currently happening, perhaps ignoring the facts, somehow makes their arguments seem stronger.
The former would make sense to me, but the latter would seem misguided or dishonest.
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u/SugarWheat Jan 14 '26
and what was happening *before* the 17th?
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u/SpringFell Jan 14 '26
Many things. I'm interested in his claim that a genocide is happening right now because he has provided no evidence for such a strong statement.
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u/Slaviverse Jan 14 '26
There is no genocide. Provide evidence, oh wait you can’t.
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u/Omochanoshi Jan 14 '26
There is plenty evidences, but why bother to show you if you don't want to see.
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
"the (Zionist cult) party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command" ...that only ever worked for those in the cult tho.
The world has seen and the piles of historical evidence have just flooded the web.
It's over. No amount of hysterical bullying online will change world opinion
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Jan 14 '26
Arguing with genocide deniers is like arguing with Holocaust deniers. No amount evidence is going convince them, because they hate the group that was victim.
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u/True_Eggman Jan 14 '26
"There is no war in Ba Sing Se" ass motherfucker.
The Holocaust didn't happen. Provide evidence, oh wait, you can't.
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u/Chinerpeton Polska Jan 14 '26
"only secular democracy in the Middle East" is such a tired dogwhistle around Israel
This supremacist regime can murder, jail without trail nor charges and opress as many Arabs as they like and as long as the government authorities try to justify this with racist gibberish instead of religious fundamentalist gibberish, they count as being "secular". Which I guess somehow gives them innate moral superiority over anyone religious. They're the "only secular democracy in the Middle East", which means they are a bastion of enlightened western judeo-christian(but they're very very secular, remember that!) civilisation among the sea of evil mohamedan savages and thus are entitled to do whatever they please in the name of safeguarding their glorious superior civilisation.
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u/slamdirtymutant Jan 14 '26
"If you want to.encourage peace you should align with a genocidal state". Calma down, Zio Giebbels
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Jan 14 '26
how about aligning ourselves with the Middle East’s only secular democracy
There is not one.
Shah is not better than current Islamic ruler of Iran. It's like comparing Taliban rule and American invasion of Afghanistan. Both are bad for people living in the region.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 14 '26
Technically it was 2x. Fist time when they became a democracy, then when they became a theocracy.
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u/Slaviverse Jan 14 '26
Why bring it back? Because the Iranians want it back. And because the shah is pro west, and has a plan to transition Iran into a democracy
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Jan 14 '26
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u/championoffandango Jan 14 '26
Oh yeah, it should just magically transition into a democracy on its own. Pahlavi is the only major opposition figure who presented an accurate, sensed plan for a democratic transition and yet you’d have him excluded in exchange for whom? The power of friendship? And of course you’d call the massive pro Shah demonstrations a Mossad plan, get out of here, you have no love for the people of Iran, only hate for Israel
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Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
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u/championoffandango Jan 14 '26
You’re seriously suggesting that the president, an Ayatollah puppet and accomplice in the current massacre of innocent civilians, should lead the democratic transition and not the man Iranians worldwide are putting their trust in? Should’ve Goering led the German transition to democracy post-WW2?
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Jan 14 '26
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u/championoffandango Jan 14 '26
Does that change anything? You put “OR” meaning that the president was still your proposal (lol) and who is the successor? Yet another one of your imaginary opposition figures? If the Ayatollah is toppled that makes the president yet another rotten member of his evil regime to eliminate, nothing more nothing less.
You’re delirious and the rest of your comment is nonsensical, have a great day
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u/Ex_aeternum Jan 14 '26
The Shah? The French invented a tool for monarchs worldwide!
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u/championoffandango Jan 14 '26
The French already allowed the Ayatollah to return to Iran, I think they already did enough damage for a lifetime. Sit this one out
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u/Skyvo_ Jan 14 '26
Why should we support Israël when they comité genocide and are An apartheid state, Cant call them secular at all if they themselves see themselves as a Jewish state with Jewish supremacy. Both sides can be very bad you don't need to support Israël to be against Iran. Israël Committed war crime after war crime and is making peace impossible.
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u/MartinBP България Jan 14 '26
Because everything you wrote is pure (illiterate) BS?
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
That is truly bold of Zionists and their fantastical bible supremacist land thieving,
to go for the accusation, which is the usual projective confession, of illiteracy.
Not only Zionism like any other supremacist narcissism is incompatible with civil literacy, but even with the existence of good faith, evidence based history
And any European that defends that amerikkkan pseudo-stance is actively working for the destruction of our so called European culture.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/Specialk3533 Jan 14 '26
Israeli law isn't based on Judaism whatsoever
That's factually wrong. For example, Israeli personal status laws are governed by religious affiliations, there are religious courts to adjudicate disputes in these matters, etc. Easily verifiable with a Google search. But I don't think that's the main point here. Israeli expansionism, especially into the West Bank, is clearly being justified on religious grounds by government ministers.
As for the situation in Gaza, the number of scholars of genocide who still deny that Israel has committed genocide has been shrinking and shrinking. What's indisputable is that Israel has committed systematic war crimes – indisputable because the Israeli Defense Minister has announced these war crimes, such as blocking humanitarian aid to exert pressure on Hamas, on his X account.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/Specialk3533 Jan 14 '26
Which is a relic of Ottoman law
It is the law of the State of Israel.
There are Kahanists is the gov spouting whatever they like.
They are not just spouting whatever the like, they are making policy. And with their necessary support to hold the coalition together and Netanyahu in power, their influence is even bigger than their numbers might suggest. Netanyahu himself has come out in support of the idea of a Greater Israel. And the influence of this ideology is not limited to the political sphere, it has also taken hold in the IDF that shields settlers in the West Bank from legal consequences, when they are not actively engaged in violence against Palestinians themselves.
Do you need scholars to tell you what to think?
Like most people I rely on experts for all the subjects that I am not an expert in, which is most. That is the default position for any sane person.
You should read the reports of both international and Israeli bodies accusing the Israeli government of committing genocide in Gaza. It will clear up many of the questions you seem to have. Noone accuses Israel of committing genocide against Arab citizens of Israel, nor is this a necessity for genocide to take place in Gaza. The percentage of civilian deaths in Gaza is also not in line with the extent of "collateral damage" in comparable military campaigns, but with historical cases of genocide.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/Specialk3533 Jan 14 '26
That's the definition of secular, state and religion are separate.
Forcing individuals to live under (aspects of) religious law is certainly not the definition of secular.
But you're not genuinely interested in actually tackling that issue anyway
Taking the easy way out, I see.
Orgs biased against Israel claim it's doing something bad.
You can read these reports and still disagree with them, and still think the organizations are biased (which fwiw is merely a claim that needs to be substantiated), but you'd understand what the argument of Israel committing genocide in Gaza consists of, and why your rebuttals miss the point.
Per definition, genocide targets a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
And that targeting is "in whole or in part". By your logic, if the Nazis had left the Jews in one German village unharmed, it wouldn't have been a genocide. It also does not matter how individual Arab Israelis identify, as the genocide is committed by the state of Israel. And we are seeing the Gazafication of the West Bank as we speak. Genocide is a process, not an event, and Israel has embarked on a course of genocide.
You should see how Hamas leaders talk about Palestinian civilians.
It's enough to see how the Israeli government, and members of the IDF, talk about Palestinian civilians.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/Specialk3533 Jan 14 '26
Nobody is forced to live under any law, that's just straight false.
Just look up whether Israel has civil marriage or not.
We can talk about it if you want, but I doubt you actually want to.
You're the one who exited the conversation on this topic.
I have read the arguments.
Then you have not understood them. The argument is not that there is a Holocaust ongoing and Palestinians are deported to extermination camps, but that Israel is deliberately bringing about conditions incompatible with human life. For instance, Physicians for Human Rights Israel makes this claim on the basis of the systematic destruction of Gaza's healthcare infrastructure. This is now continuing with the arbitrary banning of NGOs like MSF.
And I have been hearing that for years and years
Not from the most respected and recognized scholars of genocide.
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u/Skyvo_ Jan 14 '26
He knows all of this, I just don't think he cares or sees palestinians as equal human beings...
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Do you think that anyone in good faith find this crass and outrageous lies believable?
Israel is an artificial Jewish supremacist state and it both demands to be so, and then pretend to treat us all like idiots and deny it, all at once.
Because Zionism is just colonial manifest destiny, that is antisocial tribal narcissism to normalize genodidal grand theft.
Europe can burn if that is what it stands for
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
I see, all you had is another narcissistic accusation that is a confession, backed only by your total lack of self awareness and capacity for healthy shame.
I can guarantee you, your side has no idea how much contempt it has gathered with the escalating the narcissistic crimes and antisocial attitudes that demand submission, and that contempt it's gonna be, rightfully, eternal.
Zionism has been unmasked and only fascists tolerate it.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
In order to see it like you do, one needs being as insular and provincial about geopolitics as Americans are... And as I said elsewhere, Zionism can be suitable for the American, cruelty loving, society but it's not compatible with the European democracies. Or go on and pretend that trumpo invading here and there has nothing to do with the fact that the state of Israel trains their law enforcement and provides them with surveillance dystopian tech, "tested" on Palestinians, and much more that is not worth listing on Reddit since the information is there if one, as you said, "cares" enough to learn.
You are so naive if you think we euro-peons don't need to fight it.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Surely I can't be governed by my own clownish fascists that anyone can manoeuvre and indeed Israeli problematic surveillance tech has already being sold to our, I repeat traditional clownish fascists.
I.e I am an Italian telling you how the vast majority of us feel and we showed it
You have nothing but hostility and discrediting me because in very American fashion you are convinced that your ignorance is not such, but a valid reason to discredit someone not in the merit of what they said, but by some most immoral and classic fascist motto of implying nobody should care,
Or they are not the pure enough European
Yeah no, that is what literal Italian OG fascists sold for the superior stance and it is just narcissism
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
Secular democracy that is a thieving apartheid with Americans selling Palestinian land and houses in Synagogues so that when someone protest their international crimes they can use religious protection in bad faith. That is all so "secular". Isntreal true nature is having acted in bad faith since inception until it turned into a narcissistic cult. Also very "secular democracy".
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u/Slaviverse Jan 14 '26
There is no ethnic cleansing, it’s as simple as that. Whilst the other side literally reads Arabic translations of Mein Kampf, and idolising terrorists.
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u/SpedeSpedo Suomi Jan 14 '26
Is the last Shah's kid really the best idea?
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u/Slaviverse Jan 14 '26
Go look at the footage of the demonstrations on Tousi TV, Goldie Ghamari, and Armin Navabi (on Atheist Republic) on YouTube. All of them are shouting: Long live the Shah, and Pahlavi will return in Persian. Pahlavi is not just a good choice. He is the only choice. He is also very pro west, and has a a transition plan in place to make Iran a democracy.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/feraleuropean Yuropean Jan 14 '26
You being downvoted tell us the usual: Reddit is also illegitimately occupied by the ziombie bot army of transparent savage genocidal land thieves
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 14 '26
I posted this in other subs, the added movement must have triggered the bot army, or someone posted it on their telegram page.
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u/Uberbesen Eurobesen Jan 14 '26
As a mod it's weird to see this ngl. Over the last year a few commenters usually always named: "(username)(bunchofnumbers)" have been banned here, and often later deleted by reddit. Because they spouted some rule breaking stuff exclusively about Israel/Palestine as a subject. And looking at those accounts feels surreal because they tend to have a few subreddits they comment in and exclusively when it's about Israel/Palestine.
Idk how exactly this kinda stuff is set up, if that are real people behind those accounts. Or if those are bot programms using language models and some online trigger word programming. It's just strange
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u/cesaroncalves Jan 14 '26
Most are bots, example, and with AI, your work is only getting harder.
They also have some farms, or rent them, with tons of old phones controlled by servers to do mass attacks on places like Reddit, that have device ID scanning.
Nevertheless, we appreciate your work. Thanks.
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u/Uberbesen Eurobesen Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Calm it in the comments. Israel/Palestine isn't our topic on the subreddit to begin with, but this petition is from a europarty and therefor fits the sub. Bans are still being handed out for racist bullshit