Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight - first commercial space company from Europe to successfully deliver satellites into orbit

[u/avboden]

https://isaraerospace.com/press/history-for-european-spaceflight-isar-aerospace-reaches-orbit-and-deploys-payloads-on-second-flight

[u/i_heart_muons]

First German rocket to reach orbit.

It came 95 years after the flight of the first German liquid-fueled rocket, the HW1 -- a very small LOX/CH4 sounding rocket.

[u/psaux_grep → u/i_heart_muons]

Arguably the entire US space program was German rockets.

[u/Matt32145 → u/psaux_grep]

Mercury Redstone launch vehicle was a glorified V2

[u/peterabbit456 → u/Matt32145]

Mercury Redstone launch vehicle was a glorified V2

If you are going to stretch design heritage and call it a copy, couldn't you say the V2 was a glorified copy of some of Goddard's later patent drawings? You could say the layout of one of his last LOX/gasoline powered rockets was ~identical to the V2, except the V2 used Lox/70% alcohol, and I'm pretty sure the Redstone and the Saturn 1b used LOX/kerosine.

[u/rshorning → u/psaux_grep]

The last iteration of the V2 rocket actually flew on the Skylab 4 on November of 1973 since it flew using the Saturn I-B rocket. The first stage was a very Kerbal looking spacecraft that was for all practical purposes six V2 rockets strapped together in a cluster with lots of struts and independently fueling six rocket engines.

So in that sense the V2 not only achieved orbit, but carried crew into space.

Of course the Russian space program was not much different, with the R-1 rocket made in the Soviet Union was also built by German rocket engineers who worked on the V2 at Peenemunde and essentially built a complete V2 using Soviet components manufactured in many places throughout the USSR. Some parts of that continue even with the Soyuz rocket, although that was a clean-sheet design that is only an heir to the V2 in a most superficial manner. The R-1 was the workhorse of the Soviet space program for many years though.

[u/TMWNN → u/psaux_grep]

No. The Army's Von Braun group in Huntsville was one of three groups competing to launch the first US satellite. The Army project was the first with Explorer (and Redstone rocket as /u/Matt32145 said) in February 1958, but the Navy would have been the first had Vanguard succeeded in December 1957. USAF's Atlas reached orbit in late 1958, and of course succeeded the non orbit-capable Redstone for Project Mercury.

Von Braun's group was the first to reach orbit, and he became the project lead of the joint national manned space effort when the three military programs combined under NASA, but "the entire US space program was German rockets" was never true.

[u/rshorning → u/TMWNN]

I think if you look deeper, the entire American space program was derived from the research conducted at Peenemunde for the V2 rocket though. Thanks to Von Braun and Operation Paperclip, all of the engineering data and design files for the V2 rocket ended up moving to America and was used extensively to design all of the rockets built for the US military including the Navy and the Army.

Keep in mind too that the US Army did not put rockets under the Army Air Forces (later became the USAF), but rather it was assigned to the artillery branch of the Army. That is in part why when the USAF became a separate branch of the military, the Army kept their rockets.

The joke at the time (as told on various television shows by political commentators) was that "our German scientists were better than their (Soviet) German scientists" The USSR didn't get as much detailed research as America got from Operation Paperclip, but the R-1 rocket was essentially an exact clone of the V2 rocket but built from Soviet factories and supply chains.

[u/TMWNN → u/rshorning]

I think if you look deeper, the entire American space program was derived from the research conducted at Peenemunde for the V2 rocket though.

My point is that this isn't true. Yes, the captured V-2s were used for early tests by the Army. Yes, the Von Braun ABMA group, by being the first to launch a US satellite, became the lead for manned spaceflight when NASA unified the three separate military orbital-rocket programs. But Von Braun did not design the Atlas for Convair, or Vanguard for Martin. Germans did not design the Polaris. Etc., etc. Let me repeat: The Von Braun team was one tranche of three (four if you count Polaris) separate US ICBM-class rocket programs in 1957.

The joke at the time (as told on various television shows by political commentators) was that "our German scientists were better than their (Soviet) German scientists"

Yes, a joke based on the belief that the Soviets must have benefited from the Germans to have gotten as far as they did. While Grottrup's group helped with the R-1—which was, indeed, an exact copy of the V-2—they were sent back to Germany after just a few years (heck, Grottrup moved to West Germany). The bulk of the Soviet program was based on their own designers, notably Korolev and Glushko.

[u/rshorning → u/TMWNN]

The big three founders of modern rocketry, especially in regards to orbital rockets, owe its existence to three important people: Robert Goddard, Hermann Oberth, and Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. These three were in very regular communication between each other and shared many ideas about rocketry so it is hard to say any specific one of them really came up with anything specific although each is sort of credited with specific parts of solving the whole rocket problem in terms of actually getting to orbit.

Of these, Oberth was directly responsible for educating and training Von Braun as a student of the new science of rocketry and that is precisely where the V2 rocket got its start. It was Von Braun who started the practical application of all of that effort. While there is plenty of evidence that Oberth was even anti-Nazi, he was a German patriot and supported his country.

Of course Goddard and Tsiolkovsky each had their own cadre of students who pushed rocket technology forward as well, but the governments of their respective countries did not put forward the money needed to make it happen until well after World War II. But both the American and Russian/Soviet students of rocket science were fully aware of the value that the V2 program brought to the development of orbital rocketry. When they finally got ahold of those rockets at the end of WWII, they were studied extensively by everyone involved. The Soviet and American students also corresponded with each other as well, until it became politically difficult for both groups.

I am not saying that Von Braun was the father of all American rockets, which he wasn't. Certainly a key contributor and it would be silly to say that anybody else ignored his work either. It is a big part of what happened. But the exact contribution is definitely nuanced and more subtle than what is commonly put in a short and simple historical commentary. On that part you are definitely correct.

And as you pointed out, Germany after the war didn't sit out the post war years either. The only difference was that a divided Germany didn't really have all of the resources that America and the Soviet Union got for building their space programs. One thing where I do still give Germany some huge credit for is with the private commercial space launch development with the OTRAG rocket. That group of German engineers and rocket developers paved the way for many other private commercial spaceflight companies including SpaceX although many other people also come into the picture. But to say that Germany's contributions to rocketry were minimal is simply not true.

It is exciting to see that tradition continue, for which I am certainly tipping my hat and it is neat to see another generation of German engineers make an attempt to get into space. Even more exciting that they made it too. I support anybody who makes the effort to get into space regardless of where they are from.

[u/peterabbit456 → u/rshorning]

Was Hans Koenigsmann involved with OTRAG?

[u/rshorning → u/peterabbit456]

I never made that claim. But OTRAG together with the Conestoga rocket of Space Services really is the start of private commercial spaceflight. It certainly didn't start with Elon Musk.

[u/peterabbit456 → u/rshorning]

I did not mean to say you had made any such claim.

I think I once heard Koenigsmann say, in an interview, that he had worked on a commercial orbital rocket built in Europe before joining SpaceX. I was only looking for information on if that had been OTRAG, and also on if my recollection was valid, regardless of what company was involved.

[u/DrPaisa → u/TMWNN]

von Braun sounds very american

[u/Matt32145 → u/i_heart_muons]

Hopefully not going to London this time

[u/Dragongeek]

Big congrats! 

Also, Andøya spaceport is objectively the most beautiful launch site. Can't wait for some winter launches. 

[u/psaux_grep → u/Dragongeek]

The first one was the most beautiful rocket explosion backdrop I’ve seen.

[u/ClockificThrowaway → u/psaux_grep]

It even fell elegantly

[u/psaux_grep → u/ClockificThrowaway]

«Not again» it thought as it fell down towards the ground.

[u/avboden]

NSF hosted the launch livestream if anyone was curious to go back and watch.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_(rocket)

It's a carbon-composite rocket about twice the size of RL's electron.

[u/LordLederhosen → u/avboden]

Interestingly to me, it uses liquid propane-LOX, instead of methane or RP-1.

[u/falconzord → u/LordLederhosen]

That's one clean burning fuel

[u/dingo_xd → u/LordLederhosen]

Why liquid propane instead of liquid methane? More energy dense per volume?

[u/vonHindenburg → u/dingo_xd]

Slightly less energy dense, but it can be stored as a liquid at much higher temps, so it is easier to work with.

EDIT: This is why we have simple, affordable, reusable, and safe canisters of propane under our grills and in our campers, but liquid methane storage and transportation is a grid-level enterprise.

[u/LordLederhosen → u/vonHindenburg]

Yeah, makes stage zero much more affordable. Seems like a decent compromise actually.

They are also building a launch facility in Canada.

[u/dgg3565]

European launch startups, pushing against the tide of EU regulatory stupidity, are clawing their way to success.

[u/Twisp56 → u/dgg3565]

In fact they're doing it with EU regulatory money, they'd be long bankrupt otherwise.

[u/LordLederhosen → u/Twisp56]

What is “EU regulatory money?”

A SpaceX alumnus (Bulent Altan, guidance lead on nearly everything), was one of their angel investors, then he set up https://alipinespace.vc which continued to invest in them.

And yes, some money also came from the government, just like SpaceX.

[u/Twisp56 → u/LordLederhosen]

The European Launcher Challenge is providing much of the funding for the four new private launch companies. It's paid for mainly by Germany, Spain and France, with a few smaller contributors.

[u/Origin_of_Mind → u/Twisp56]

This is a bit misleading.

Isar may get up to €197.8 million from the European Launcher Challenge contract, after they hit specific milestones, of which reaching the orbit is the first one. So far, they have operated mostly on private funding, raising about €670 million in total from various investors. So although ELC does in a certain sense provide "much funding," it does not provide most of the required funding by any measure.

The ELC is a two-step program, with funding tied to specific milestones. Under Component A, ESA will purchase launch services as companies attempt to demonstrate initial capabilities. Then under Component B, ESA will co-fund capacity upgrades. [https://payloadspace.com/breaking-down-europes-launch-funding/\]

"Each contract is split into two components. Under Component A, the companies must successfully reach orbit by the end of 2027 before ESA begins using the available funding to support operational launches through 2030. Component B co-funds upgrades to the companies’ rockets, with each company required to demonstrate the proposed upgrades by the end of 2028." [https://europeanspaceflight.com/esa-awards-e544-million-in-european-launcher-challenge-contracts/\]

[u/dgg3565 → u/Twisp56]

"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” That sums up the circular logic of the EU.

I've expressed (some) of my own views on regulation in the recent past, but the regulatory environment in Europe generally makes it harder to do business, harder to raise capital, and harder to launch. Mind you, the regulations in the US are only comparatively easier for launch companies when it comes to sending stuff into orbit. But when the EU made an attempt to simplify the existing regulations for private launch companies, the draft regs ended more complicated and faced unanimous pushback.

[u/Morning_Gecko24]

big milestone for europe, and the second flight working is even better. curious if they can keep this cadence or if small launchers still gonna get squeezed on cost?

[u/wheelienonstop12]

Great news from my home country, especially as I live just 20 minutes by car from the Isar river.

Bonus: a photo of the Isar river with dozens of pebble manikins, just a few kilometers downstream of its source in Austria. I took it myself when I finished riding the whole length of the Isar river cycle route on my electric unicycle in 2024.

https://imgur.com/a/mMTEqAt

[u/Decronym]

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters	More Letters
EELV	Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle
ELC	EELV Launch Capability contract ("assured access to space")
ESA	European Space Agency
ICBM	Intercontinental Ballistic Missile
LOX	Liquid Oxygen
NSF	NasaSpaceFlight forum
	National Science Foundation
RP-1	Rocket Propellant 1 (enhanced kerosene)
USAF	United States Air Force

Decronym is now also available on Lemmy! Requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.

---

^{Decronym is a community product of r/SpaceX, implemented by request
[Thread #14776 for this sub, first seen 6th Sep 2026, 05:05] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]}

[u/Morning_Gecko24]

Europe finally has a real orbit win on the board thats a huge step for a healthier launch market