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Benson: look, I understand, I was so overwhelmed when I adopted Noah and became a single mom, I didnât know where to turn, and I can only imagine how hard it would have been with three children. But Lacy, that was no excuse for what happened to them, you know that right?
Edit:
Tutuloa: You mean to tell me this womanâs kids stressed her out so much she killed them?
Mulaney: yeah Ice, itâs the special victims unit, youâll need to get used to this kind of thing.
Munch: Talk about letting it get to ya. Guess Iâm lucky my wife reached for the divorce papers instead of the pills, huh?
To help us collectively process the feelings because we clearly arenât doing anything to change it despite the 25 years they have been showing us a mirror of ourselves?
I get around this by having an exchange. âYou want to watch this Netflix crime drama? Sure, afterwards we get to watch this documentary on ancient Egyptian economicsâ.
Itâs actually by a Mark Crorigan and as he notes there are a few errata.Â
The first thing to note when discussing the business secrets of the Pharaohs is an acknowledgement that their era was so completely different from our own that almost all cultural, political and, particularly, business parallels we draw between the two eras are bound, by their very nature, to be wrong.
If this happens, the prosecutors better tighten their work up and pray that the Bowden defense isnât brought in (unless weâre missing a ton of redacted from the public information that contradicts the testimony weâve seen).
I think they had a lot more evidence not publicised like a huge report from a hospital (i think) plus a LOT of interviews between her and others as video recordings. So there is definitely lots we arenât aware of that would give them more insight into her help seeking and state of mind
Agree out of curiosity but also, this case really shouldnât have been televised to this degree. It will not be possible for her to find an unbiased jury if this ends up in a mistrial. Itâs so sensationalised, and there was no need to involve the public. And regardless of whether anyone thinks sheâs guilty of murder or NGRI, everyone needs a fair trial. They may need to do a retrial elsewhere.
(And I acknowledge Iâm a hypocrite saying it should not have been publicised or this much info provided to the public because I have been keeping up with the case (though have not been watching it). Itâs complex and the reaction from the public and how split everyone is has become really interesting to me - but that doesnât mean itâs right, just that curiosity won.)
Maybe the defense should bring in the TikTok gals who insist the husband did it because of his astrological sign. Thatâll clear everything up.
I donât understand why this is so controversial. Any dude with any manner of psychological problems wouldâve been sentenced to life or death by now.
Brother, its a heinous case that understandably stokes strong emotions, but this took literally a single Google search:
Notable Cases of Fathers Found NGRI
Matthew Schlier (Iowa): A judge ruled that Schlier was not guilty by reason of insanity for the strangulation death of his 5-year-old son, Jack. Schlierâs defense successfully argued that severe anxiety, depression, and severe obsessive-compulsive disorder caused intense delusions. He deeply believed that killing his son was the only way to prevent the child from future, catastrophic suffering.
Darrin Lopez (Texas): After shooting and killing his son, Lopez was found NGRI due to severe schizophrenia. Experts testified he was actively hallucinating and experiencing command delusions during the incident, genuinely believing he was protecting his family from demonic forces.
â---------------
the insanity defense is nothing new, my man, and its been applied to men, women, and even kids, for a long time now, in every state that im aware of.
I was on a jury for 2 murders earlier this year and me + 10 other people had made our minds up but a very emotional woman dragged it out for a whole day because âtheyâre so young and have their whole lives ahead of them!â Crying and shit
Yeah what about the 18 year guy they shot through the heart in front of his GF before robbing him and then posting 20 videos waving the victims custom gun around and then showing the cash you stole
I was on a jury for a medical malpractice lawsuit. There was an old art teacher on the jury with us. First words out of his mouth during deliberation were "they're guilty". No explanation or reasoning. It was a civil trial.
"We the jury find the defendant guilty of defemation..."
*background whispering*
[sighs] "...and Steve and Bill think it should be punished by firing squad. I don't know, your honor....this goofy shit has been going on all afternoon."
That's my biggest thing. There's a huge faction that is bending over backwards to excuse and empathize with this woman, which they wouldn't even consider for a different demographic.Â
You can empathize with every criminal. Most of them have a sob story that you can twist and draw empathy from. But that never happens for other murderers.Â
yeah a lot of people are always ready to bash on Reddit but damn, if I never had some awesome moments in the comments laughing my ass out like that or learning an obscure fact
Holy shit, I didnât realize they arenât sequestered. Heâs right, I checked. Thereâs no way there even could follow sequestration guidelines and avoid this shitstorm. Itâs everywhere.
I think everyone agrees that she killed them, apart from crazies on social media, the jury has to decide whether she was insane at the time she did it.
Essentially the prosecution calls a psychologist/psychiatrist type expert to the stand and they testify that in their opinion she wasnât insane, and the defence calls a different expert to testify that in their opinion she was insane, and then the jury has to decide which of the two expert psychiatrists they believe more.
A bit more complicated than that but more or less thatâs how it works. Probably not the best system but thatâs how it is. đ€·ââïž
Ok, not guilty by verdict of Insanity. Put her in an asylum for the criminally insane for the rest of her life. Either way, off the streets for the rest of her life.
Edit to add: guys, I've been informed that if she got that she will be out and back on the streets whenever the institution says she's stable...
If I went temporarily insane and killed my kids, when I became sane again and realized what I had done I'm pretty sure I'd just give head to a shotgun in the shower with a hoodie on.Â
I mean the "issue" with that is that they are not claiming "just" insanity, claiming it's temporary insanity due to postpartum psychosis. So by definition that's something that can be treated and goes away after a certain amount of time. Because after all if she's not suffering from postpartum psychosis well then she's not gonna be a danger to anyone else right?
It's times like this I wish there were another option GUILTY by reason of insanity.
She absolutely killed those kids no question. She was also quite clearly suffering from mental issues too... at the same time, she did show some rational forethought- but criminally insane people can too.
I'm going strongly against the grain here and will probably be downvoted- but I actually think the death penalty would satisfy people's desire for revenge more than it would actual justice. She shouldn't be let free- but she shouldn't be executed.
If there were a GUILTY by reason of insanity, it would allow the judge to force her into a mental asylum until declared mentally safe (perhaps with a minimum stay in the facility enforced) AND THEN continue punishment after she's better. I think a life-sentence of public service and forced mental health sessions is just. Make her work for society doing charity work for the rest of her life, and have her constantly check in with a professional for her health.
She killed her kids, that's undeniable- but if a psychiatrist would sign off on her, I don't think she's a threat to society now.
In this case choosing between guilty and not-guilty is not going to be just either way.
That isnt how that works. My mom worked for decades at an institution where people went when they were deemed NGRI for violent crimes, and she once explained this exact concept to me.
They can't go to prison, they're exempt from going through the actual penal system if theyre deemed NGRI. But people deemed NGRI are usually held for many, many years, so it really doesnt make a difference to any of us
You canât put someone away for life with a NGRI verdict, thatâs the issue. She can technically be released as early as 6 months, but the average psychiatric stay for murder in Massachusetts is only 5-6 years.
In Massachusetts, she will be evaluated 40 days after commitment, in which case she could be released then, if not, she will be evaluated again after 6 months and I'd not released then, a new eval every year.
She could be released after only 40 fucking days and considering the nature of her supposed psychosis, it's certainly not impossible.
I highly doubt she will even spend a decade in, and I'd honestly be surprised if she even spends 5 years, sadly. She deserves to rot in jail but she's gonna end up with basically a slap on the wrist and she'll be rolling among us again before the end of this decade.
I genuinely believe if it was a man claiming he blacked out and did something like this due to psychosis, deliberation wouldnât last a whole day. Maybe half a day.
There was MONTHS proven of previous reports about the father being abusive from babysitters and family members.
He killed his children. Then spent the next 6-7 DAYS;
Calling their school to tell the school his kids were âsick.â
He went to the store to buy supplies, including bleach and trash bags, to cover up the stench of their decomposing bodies.
He cut their bodies up and put them into separate trash bags.
Then threw them on the side of the road in an attempt to HIDE the bodies.
Police found handwritten notes describing how he planned to kill and mutilate his childrenâs body.
They also found evidence of meth, and he was high on synthetic weed when arrested.
Edit: WHY are we talking about guilt?
This ISNT a matter of guilt. She already confessed to the murders. Sheâs a murderer.
David Camm was convicted of killing his wife and 2 children and spent 13 years in prison until he was released . He even had an alibi. Still convicted him, and it was all on some flimsy blood splatter testimony from an "expert" who turned out to have fraudulent credentials. Probably way more common than people are willing to admit. The local media also vilified him so much that people to this day still thinks he was involved.
Clarence Moses-El was convicted of rape because the victim claimed she didn't see the face of her attacker but then was revealed to her in a dream even after identifying three other suspects. No other evidence linked him to the crime and he was still convicted for 48 years. Years later a serial rapist was caught and confessed to also be the perpetrator in that case yet Clarence was not freed until several years later
It's a major issue in media they'll report initial trial but often not follow up. Tons of people have reported losing jobs years after proving innocence because some news website never updated their arrest article.
yeah it would last about five minutes and even if it was genuine no one would have paid that information enough mind for it to stop for even a second as it went in one ear and right out the other
From what I understand, the
 insanity defense is very hard for the prosecution to overcome in Massachusetts.
Rather than forcing the defense to prove she had a psychosis, the Massachusetts law forces the prosecution to prove she didnât have a psychosis beyond a reasonable doubt.
How would one even go about doing that unless the person posted publically about how sane they were feeling, which itself sounds like the behavior of an insane person
The long story short as I understand it is the facts arenât really in dispute, and the prosecution isnât even pushing back on her being mentally ill.
Itâs just a matter of whether she was in control of her actions or not, and itâs coming down to dueling expert testimony.
Weâre asking the jury to decide whether she actually had a full psychotic break, warranting an insanity defense, or if she was âjustâ a depressed, anxious, bipolar, and suicidal person but was aware she was committing a heinous crime, in which case no insanity defense.
Itâs a much tougher questions than people want to believe, and one that should be deliberated for a few days.
You can tell who didn't actually watch the trial by how mad they're getting. Everyone has big feelings, but the hung jury is not a surprise because the question isn't whether or not she did it. The question is the definition of crazy versus evil under the law with a side indictment of mental healthcare
Why, why in the hell is any of this being televised or recorded anyway? I feel like im taking crazy pills, is this a psyop? Is it all for the social media clout and gofundme?
To be honest, its not that hard to find people that dont know about this. I know OF the situation and hardly anything about it, and im online a lot. Theres plenty of people like myself who either just dont really care whats going on with this case or arent really online that much to know about this. In the city where it happened, probably impossible though
I think itâs a psyop. Not necessarily the case itself, but the online discourse about it. I never read a single word about this case until the last few days, and suddenly itâs everywhere with tens of thousands of likes, upvotes, millions of views, whatever. And itâs never rational takes- itâs only the most unhinged takes on either side. Itâs like the algorithm just decided my whole feed needed to be divisive gender war bullshit.
We all know Casey Anthony killed her kids, sheâs a part of normal society. The way the system is built lets these things happen, if the prosecution stacks the charges too high itâs on them to prove the guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. For Casey, there was doubt there, so she was let go.
Ben Franklin once said, âit is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer.â
With the way our justice system is built, injustices happen.
This lady killed her kids, but her defense team is going about it saying she wasnât in her right mind. Massachusetts law puts that burden of proving her mental level onto the prosecution. Hence the deadlock.
For me, as a European , information on this case only comes in form of memes and heavily sensationalised news.
Is there any credible evidence that this isn't a clear cut case? You wouldn't want an innocent person to be convicted for such serious crime, but i have only read about truely absurd excuses, like "a woman would never do that" or "her husband manipulated her to do it".
There's no question that she killed the kids or not. This trial is only about if she was sane enough to be sent to prison or if she is to be committed for treatment. So it's about cognitive responsibility. In the state this is being tried in the burden of proof is with the prosecutor to prove she was sane enough to go to prison. Which is different to a lot of places where the burden of proof is with the defense to prove insanity.
For some reason there's this whole social media thing that it's her husband's fault or that he framed her. Which in any other context would be victim blaming. But it's ok if it's a man it seems.
in germany/europe prison is the lighter sentence compared to institution. if you end up there, you could end up there forever as you'll never be healed.
I don't know the details of the case or anything, except that some women outside the trial support her or something
But the headline 9 women and 3 men heavily implies that's the split. I doubt we actually know which side each juror is on. The outside made it a gender war, but the jurors, ideally, shouldn't be part of that.
It's so crazy. The Tiktok infected women are genuinely fucking insane. You could get these people to support anything if they can be convinced it's the majority opinion of the "good" people on their side. They don't care about principles or logic, it is purely 100% about blind solidarity and being viewed as a good person.
I've heard some ludicrous cope including things like "she was sleep deprived." If a man was sleepy after a long day at work and murdered his three children they would strap his ashes into the electric chair to make sure they got him.
From the way my friend described this to me, (based on info she got from TikTok) the husband is at fault because he manipulated her into killing her children, because he didnât cry at trial and because he has a new partner.
I was shocked to read and watch about the case myself and see how different the story is.
In case anybody forgot, they arenât deliberating whether or not she did it, thatâs an established fact acknowledged by both sides.
If that were the case this would be a very quick decision.
Whatâs being decided is whether or not she is criminally liable or was insane and canât be held liable for her actions. That is a much different distinction than guilty or not guilty. For me her actions do not point to psychosis but instead to cold calculated murder.
If they return a not guilty by reason of insanity verdict that will set a precedent. Whether or not it is a good precedent remains to be seen.
Theyâre divided on whether she is actually insane or if she did it on purpose, they need to agree on one or the other to figure out where to send her. Everyone knows she did it, itâs just agreeing on her state of mind that is the issue.
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