r/SelfDrivingCars • u/muhgyver • 4d ago
News Feds launch investigation into Tesla’s Cybercab deployment
https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/articles/feds-launch-investigation-tesla-cybercab-120114512.html•
u/Orange-skittles 3d ago
Seems like they are following the normal procedure as seen with Zoox. So I would not expect any major concerns unless they declare it unsafe.
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u/veganparrot 4d ago
Is DOGE on the case?
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u/OxbridgeDingoBaby 3d ago
Yet this sub was saying that Musk and his companies will never get investigated because of his antics with DOGE?
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u/veganparrot 3d ago
Did you miss this? https://abc7news.com/post/donald-trump-says-hes-disappointed-elon-musk-tesla-ceo-doubles-down-criticism/16667318/
Time to drop the really big bomb: realDonaldTrump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, DJT!"
and
Mark this post for the future. The truth will come out.
(doubling down)
Do you believe Trump is the kind of person to let those comments slide? That's basically scorched earth at that point. Occam's razor explanation is DOGE's stated goals were very hard and inevitably going to blow up, and during the fallout Elon tried to turn his base against Trump and failed.
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u/devonhezter 3d ago
Who ?
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u/kariam_24 3d ago
Oh don't play dumber then you are.
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u/BeauGhis 3d ago
I didn't get your exquisite grammatical shift at first: Oh don't. Play dumber ... Then you are.
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u/spez_eats_nazi_ass 4d ago
Trump getting ready to let Musk hang out to dry? Leopard face time? Or Musk just needs to buy more Trump coin.
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u/digitalliquid 4d ago
Dont be silly, this is the "how much are you willing to pay to make this go away" phase of the shake down. Its illegal to pay directly, but perhaps a fine will do.
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u/marty-mcfryguy 3d ago
Given Musk's hooks with the administration and the agencies he rebuilt under DOGE, there's no way this investigation isn't happening without his approval.
Which actually makes sense -- he's finally backed himself into a put-up-or-shut-up corner with Cybercab, and he knows there's major risk that one of them is going to kill someone and finally burst the Tesla bubble. But if he can now say "it's those stupid ass regulators who won't let my baby on the road because of all their red tape", then he can keep the grift going just that much longer.
Next move is NHTSA putting the kibosh on their self-certification and replacing it with some provisional/testing certification. Then Elon can run a handful of these in a tightly geofenced area for another year or so, when he finally decides this grift is exhausted and he forces SpaceX to buyout Tesla before it has a chance to dip, and then he slowly dismantles the whole thing like the next Solar City / Twitter.
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u/PineappleGuy7 4d ago
Trump is Elon's puppet.
Just because they put on all those theatrics on Twitter and the news channels doesn't mean Elon has lost control of the government.
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u/joshverd 3d ago
Zoox’s toasters don’t have pedals or a wheel either. I think the toaster and the cybercab should both be allowed, assuming they meet all safety standards (they do).
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u/muhgyver 3d ago
If you read the article, it explains that they already investigated Zoox.
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u/joshverd 3d ago
Exactly my point. Assuming no safety problems (unlikely that a Tesla vehicle has safety issues), then I don’t see how this is any different than the process Zoox went through.
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u/Ok-Advice5315 19h ago
Are you talking about the same Tesla that had to recall Cybertrucks because glued on parts were flying off the car? Yeah, Tesla has safety problems
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u/Areyoucunt 3d ago
Was that before or after Musk lobbied and had half of NHTSA self-driving safety team fired?
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u/joshverd 3d ago
idk man I just want self driving cars (all of them) to have a quicker path to certification. I don’t really care what Musk does or doesn’t do.
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u/Ezekeal 3d ago edited 2d ago
Only one of them has the appropriate sensors for automated driving.
Edit: looks liken Elon’s sensitive boys got upset again
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u/joshverd 3d ago
Idk if you’ll be proven correct in the long run or not, but Waymo and Robotaxi have both safely driven me around town. Both were fully automated with just me in the vehicle.
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u/PetorianBlue 3d ago
Tesla always wanted to use the regulatory scapegoat. They've had it teed up for nearly a decade. Remember when FSD would be technically capable within 6-12 months and then it was just up to the pesky regulators? Now's their chance.
(Never mind that they didn't apply.)
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u/Constant_Effective76 4d ago edited 3d ago
if your car does not follow the law, you should ask for an exemption in advance. Not when you are releasing it. I assume this Musk style of doing business. I hope he does not get it.
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u/Responsible-Cut-7993 3d ago
From the article, Tesla is following along in the process Zoox followed for vehicles without controls.
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u/Elluminated 3d ago
The feds knew about the lack of traditional controls the day Tesla announced it years ago and had this investigation queued up. This wasn’t a surprise to them.
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u/NewNewark 3d ago
Reading the article would inform you that NHTSA does not have the power to investigate before launch.
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u/Elluminated 3d ago
Right, but they always do tangential preparation for the hands-on part afterward.
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u/highimpac 3d ago
Honestly they could have predicted driverless cars 10 years ago and started working to support it. That would have demonstrated leadership.
Or just copy China :)
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u/unique_usemame 3d ago
Musk's style is typically to just do stuff and figure out later if there are rules against it and if those rules are actually enforced or not.
This dates back at least to PayPal (etc) with the AML rules and Visa/MC regulations.
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u/mrkjmsdln_new 3d ago
It is interesting how long compliance can take. Waymo showed the Zeekr without steering wheel or pedals in Dec 2021and pursued modular components to add and subtract them.
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u/CommunismDoesntWork 4d ago
though the Department of Transportation recently proposed removing those requirements for vehicles that are designed to be autonomously driven.
Sounds like beaucracy going through the motions
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u/Elluminated 3d ago
lol. Let’s investigate if the car no one is supposed to drive manually has no steering wheel or pedals
(Pops head in)
Confirmed, roll credits
😂
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u/Dr_Pippin 2d ago
Of course they did. It’s literally their job to ensure safety. This is exactly what has been done in the past, too. Idiots trying to blow this out of proportion.
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u/Alternative_Hour_614 1d ago
I just saw a Cybercab in Queens with Florida manufacturers plates. I don’t believe Tesla has any authorization to operate it in New York.
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u/Extasio 3d ago
Anybody else thinks it’s increasingly likely lidar technology (or some similar form of redundancy) ends up being mandated on Teslas robotaxis considering the giant gap in safety and quality between the Tesla robotaxis and Waymos?
Good luck proving to the feds a few hundred dollars of lidar is an unreasonable demand or that the company doesn’t have the ressources to make that change
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u/Sensing_Force1138 3d ago
It is not the cost. Feds have to show the benefit is concrete and without it the situation is dangerous. Otherwise, we could have a bill-of-attainder kind of situation. I don't like govts requiring specific tech as a general rule, only specific outcomes.
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u/Seaker42 1d ago
What safety and quality gap are you referring to?
Also, adding another sensor type is not just a few hundred dollars - that would require re-engineering the way their self driving approach works - that could easily cost billions.
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u/gl0wa 6h ago
Do we know whether there's a safety gap, though?
I guess once we have tens millions of miles driven every quarter of each system, then we can compare numbers. And they will change as systems mature.
I guess there's another aspect of this: how those systems will perform in not ideal conditions, like heavy rain, snow or fog.
So it may take couple of years until we (as a public) will be able to compare performance of those systems (providing there will be enforced certain level of transparency).
Tesla will see these numbers much earlier. And I wouldn't be surprised if based on data they decide to put back a mmWave radar, ultrasonic sensors or even a lidar if it will be clear that this will help them better compete.
What if there will be situations, where in the middle of night Tesla will suspend service due to poor conditions (e.g. heavy rain or snow) but Zoox and Waymo will keep operating?
So if they find out that it would be beneficial to add other sensor modalities to system, it would be a blessing for Tesla if this was mandated on them by regulations (e.g. such as proposal in New Jersey Senate Bill S1677, which would require two distinct sensing modalities on the top of vision). They could even quietly lobby to pass such regulations :) This would let them say "we were forced to put radars back by bad regulations", saving face of genius visionary boss.
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u/uncleAW 3d ago
Shake down loading. Elon not spending enough Mohnay on Mid-terms.
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u/reddit-frog-1 3d ago
⬆️ This, you know that both the autonomous competitors as well as Uber/Lyft and Taxi unions will try their best to delay Tesla.
These NTHSA rules are all about corporate influence.
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u/Sensing_Force1138 4d ago
So all the talk of this admin being in Musk's pocket is not true?! 😱
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u/Revanish 4d ago
if you stole a million dollars and im a police officer and catch you, we can settle out of court for $10k and no one can punish you for this crime in the future, deal?
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u/Sensing_Force1138 4d ago
Isn't that the deal that Biden's son got before the complete pardon?
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u/steveu33 4d ago
The Trump crime family steals billions right in the open. But Hunter lives on in your mind rent-free. Sad.
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u/veganparrot 4d ago
Please stop ruining our country, thank you
https://thefulcrum.us/ethics-leadership/partisan-hypocrisy-biden-trump-conflicts
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u/TheCourierMojave 3d ago
Man, you guys are a broken record. Trump's scandals out number everyone elses 1000 to 1 because he keeps doing insane shit. You guys point to like 1 or 2 things Biden did and act like it's some magical talking point that negates everything the current administration is doing.
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u/spez_eats_nazi_ass 4d ago
It depends on the day of the week and if Trump is sundowning. There is no loyalty though. This might just be an empty threat.
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u/muhgyver 4d ago
It is pretty sad that Musk gave Trump all that money, but Trump still doesn't like Musk enough to grant him special favors and exemptions like Trump does for almost everyone else he knows.
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u/CommunismDoesntWork 4d ago
Elon didn't need special favors, he needed Biden to stop fucking with starship launch permits.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/muhgyver 4d ago
This investigation is because the Cybercab lacks a steering wheel and pedals. They investigated Zoox last year for the same reason. Feel free to actually read the article if you have any other questions.
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u/Draygoon2818 3d ago
"There is precedent to NHTSA’s inquiry. In 2022, Amazon-owned autonomous vehicle company Zoox self certified its cube-like robotaxi, which lacks traditional controls such as a steering wheel and pedals. NHTSA then opened up what it called a “special order” seeking more information from Zoox and formally launched an audit query — the same process it is now using for Tesla — the following the year."