r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 18d ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ How negotiations actually work...

Post image

To the inevitable response from MAGA that Obama gave 'pallets' of cash...he released frozen Iranian assets. Meanwhile the current Iran conflict has directly cost $38 billion militarily and a currently projected $87 billion in extra gas and diesel expenses. Not to mention that the strategic oil reserves have been depleted to the point that experts warn that the caverns they're stored in could collapse.

• Upvotes

96% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

The Iranians were also becoming less extremist because of the settlement. Trump literally blew it all up to try and show up Obama.

•

u/w0ndernine 18d ago

The Iranian populace has historically been pro-West. Then and now.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

I get your sarcasm but it's more that they're sick of the mullahs. They rioted after the morality police killed Mahsa Amini back in 2022. They were ready for reforms, but Trump's blundering has caused them to rally around the government.

•

u/Volodio 18d ago

The Iranian people does not have the ability to overthrow the regime, as they proved in January.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Yes. Because they weren't ready yet. They rioted in 2022 when the morality police killed a woman. But now, any chance of moderation has been literally blown to smithereens thanks to Trump. That is literally the point.

•

u/Volodio 18d ago

They tried revolting earlier this year and 40,000 were killed. What is "ready", as you say, supposed to look like? If they failed in January, how are they supposed to succeed again later without foreign intervention?

•

u/GanjasTriforce 18d ago

They tried revolting earlier this year and 40,000 were killed

Aaaannnndd this current adventure in Iran has left quite a few more dead, no?

Justify this current debacle all you want, it doesn't make it not dumb as fuck.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

In January 2026 Trump literally posted on social media to the Iranians to revolt and that he would help them. He didn't. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/trump-told-iranians-keep-protesting-then-he-abandoned-their-cause

•

u/Volodio 18d ago

They were already revolting.

What even is your point?

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

"The Iranians were also becoming less extremist because of the settlement. Trump literally blew it all up to try and show up Obama." I said it right there in my first comment. What's yours?

•

u/Volodio 18d ago

My point is that the Iranian people does not have a voice in the matter. Iran is a dictatorship, and it is a dictatorship that successfully prevented a revolution. So whether the people are more or less extremist does not change anything.

•

u/MoodyPrince_XoXo 18d ago

"the people and their values don't matter because they have a dictator"

You are daft my friend. You are completely running yourself into the ground trying to dodge the point. The point here being social dynamic changes DO matter. Regardless of government. And social dynamic changes happen as a result of events.

This person is correct in the timeline and sequence of events. You are simply arguing for the sake of argument. And implying that the Iranian people don't have a voice. Incorrect. All people have a voice, and shame on you for so easily dismissing theirs because some freako has decided to try and silence them.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Yeah, I can't even figure out his point.

•

u/Volodio 18d ago

I am not dodging anything. Again, the Iranian people did not have an ability to overthrow the regime. Whether they have a voice or not does not matter when they cannot make their voice heard.

SnooEagles is both incorrect in his timeline, thinking that Trump caused the crackdown when it was already happening before he said anything, and incorrect in his argument.

Arguing that Iranian people have a voice and everything is nice and all for privileged people completely unaffected by Iranian actions, but there is an actual reality on the ground. The reality is that Iran has a specific foreign policy that the Iranian people has zero influence on due to the country being a dictatorship. That foreign policy causes suffering for plenty of people around the world:

Iran supports many militias in Iraq which are involved in the civil war, did many terrorist attacks, persecuted minorities, tried to take over the country and launched drones at other countries. Iran supports the Houthis which caused a civil war in Yemen, persecuted the population, stole UN aid, attacked ships passing nearby, organized terrorist attacks against Gulf countries and launched drones and missiles against countries in the region. Iran supports Hamas, which persecuted the population in Gaza and attacked Israel, causing the war to restart. Iran supports Hezbollah, which persecutes the Lebanese population, steals money and prevents the government from being effective and recovering, attacked Israel which started a war which Lebanon was dragged into, was involved in the Syrian civil war where it massacred people revolting against Assad and Hezbollah is also deeply involved into drug trafficking in the Middle East (affecting also Jordan) and in Latin America, where it also committed terrorist attacks. Iran also supported many terrorist attacks in the West, often by working with criminal gangs. Iran is also involved in the Sudanese civil war. Iran also persecuted refugees from Afghanistan.

To all these people affected by Iranian foreign policy, they cannot just wait for the Iranian people to miraculously gain a voice that matters, especially after it was clear that their attempt at a revolution failed. Again, it is a nice thought, but in reality the rest of the Middle East cannot let themselves be killed while waiting for Iran to no longer be a dictatorship.

→ More replies (0)

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Yes. The current regime is a dictatorship. And now thanks to Trump it will remain one for the foreseeable future, probably for the rest of our lives. Any chance we had at reforms have now gone out the window. Trump egged the masses on, which gave the government an excuse to crack down on dissent, and in addition he blew up their infrastructure, including a school full of children, radicalizing people who might previously have been in favor of reform. He also killed the current Ayatollah's father, the one who presided over the deal with Obama, giving him a personal reason to never want to negotiate with the US.

In short, Trump perfectly filled the role of western bogeyman for the mullahs to unite the Iranians against.

So yeah. The Iranians didn't have a voice. And Trump made sure they never will, just as they were starting to find it.

•

u/Volodio 18d ago

People were already revolting and most of the cracking down and killing had already happened when Trump declared he would help the Iranian people. His actions did not cause the cracking down.

Trump's actions happened after the people failed to overthrow the dictatorship. It is not his fault that they are unable to do so.

As an aside, son Khamenei has not shown any proof of life since the war. He is likely dead or in a coma and the country is actually run by the IRGC.

→ More replies (0)

•

u/Otherwise_pleasant 18d ago

Were they? Did mossad tell you that? What are our sources for literally anything?

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

The ayatollah stated they had enough for 10 warheads and wanted to use the against the West, doesn’t sound like they were less extreme. Also, the deal was for the uranium, Iran never released it but continued to learn how to enrich it further.

•

u/Apple-Dust 18d ago

Iran verifiably removed the enriched uranium from the country when JCPOA came into effect. And yes, they were becoming less extreme because that gave the moderates in Iran, who negotiated it, more influence. Then Trump humiliated those moderates by tearing up the deal, proving the hardliners' case for them: the US is untrustworthy and making a deal with them is pointless.

This is all very obvious when you think about it from the other party's perspective for 5 seconds instead of doing some reckless, pointless bullshit just so you can tear up something negotiated by the guy you hate.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

So you’re a liar and propagandist. No, they agreed to remove it then continued to enrich it. As for the other parties’ perspective, you are trying to promote the IRGC which believes being killed is an honor and will get them into paradise. As for Trump tearing up the deal, that’s a farce since the IRGC refused to honor it to begin with.

•

u/Apple-Dust 18d ago

No, they verifiably removed it and did not enrich past the 300kg of 3.67% allowed in the agreement.

This was true up to and including the final report before Trump tore up the agreement.

you are trying to promote the IRGC

I try to promote moderate factions inside any extremist country because that's what an adult who wants to see changed does as opposed to a child who wants to play with GI Joes.

Now, stop spreading disinformation you lying propagandist.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Report from 2016 that was disproven years later. Good job on proving you’re pushing a false narrative.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Citation needed.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

You presented the document, the dates are on there and proof further is that they were enriching uranium when Biden was in office.

•

u/queerhistorynerd 18d ago

you made the claim it was disproven so you need to submit proof of it. Because every one except for the trump administration says they were following the treaty until trump pulled out of it

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

You’re using an old paper stating that the uranium was enriched to 3.66% and the IAEA admitted years later that they were trying enriching uranium to weapons grade (80%). The uranium that is buried is at 60%. If you are unable to understand or refuse to acknowledge this than there is no reason to continue this discussion

→ More replies (0)

•

u/Apple-Dust 18d ago

Source or stfu.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Then why are we still over there if Trump has blown up their nuclear capacity about thirty three times by now, according to him?

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Because he’s trying to end this 47 year old war.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

You mean the war he's declared over the same number of times?

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Iran declared war on the US in 1978, Carter excepted the declaration. Since then Iran has attacked the US multiple times through proxies and directly. Trump has been warning about them since the 80s and is the first president to take them seriously. Trump never declared war or conflict. Ever wonder why Congress hasn’t pulled him back? It’s because congress in 1979 excepted the terms with Carter. They can’t end the conflict without both sides agreeing. It’s the reason why the Korean War is still ongoing, even with no actual fighting going on.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Obama signed a settlement with them. It was having a positive affect. Trump blew it up. And now the situation is exponentially worse. Iran controls the Strait of Hormuz and are now actively pursuing a nuke, which US intelligence repeatedly stated they were not pursuing prior to the US attack.

I don't wonder why congress doesn't pull Trump back. They do whatever he wants.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Positive effect. The agreement was for them to stop enriching uranium which they continued to do anyways. As for your statement that they weren’t pursuing nuclear weapons, a year ago the ayatollah threatened Europe stating it had enough enriched uranium for ten warheads. That doesn’t sound like they were deescalating, sounds like they were making a threat.

→ More replies (0)

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

The Iranians are not the Ayatollah. And he was more moderate than his son.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Right, and you are the prime minister of Antarctic. This was televised in Iran before his death earlier this year. I would suggest you watch it but let’s be truthful, you don’t care about reality or the consequences for your ignorance.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

They literally rioted after the morality police slew a woman in 2022.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

And earlier this year before his death ordered the execution of over 36,000 protestors. The riot you referred to had over 500 protestors killed under his order. He also upheld the power of the morality police after the riots as well

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

Yes. I am talking about the Iranian people. See "the Iranians are not the Ayatollah". The Iranians have been fed up with the mullahs for some time and cracks were finally starting to show, until Trump started bombing them, at which point people rallied around the government who started cracking down on dissenters. Thank you for proving my point.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Iran is controlled by the IRGC, which is controlled by the ayatollah. And Iranians follow the ayatollah. The people you’re referring to are Persians which the ayatollah has been pushing a genocide on since 1979.

•

u/SnooEagles4121 18d ago

The Ayatollah had a core of support at about 25%. The Iranians are not a monolith and do not blindly support their leadership any more than Americans support Trump.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Wow, you pulled info from the 1980s. It’s around 70% today since the Persians are being killed off.

→ More replies (0)

•

u/festivefrederick 18d ago

You’re in a cult. They call it TDS.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

??? Neither democrat or republican, I’m a classical libertarian slightly to the right of center. And TDS is for people that want him hurt for existing. As long as he’s deporting violent criminals and minimizing the federal government’s control over the states i will support him as a president.

•

u/festivefrederick 18d ago

But Donald P. Trump obliterated all that. Are you saying our president failed?

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

You just admitted it, Trump did it. Not Obama, not Bush, not Biden. Past presidents gave them money and didn’t push back on the treaties Iran signed that said they would stop but instead continued. Trump gave them no money, put sanctions on them then took out their ability to continue and bury what they had.

•

u/festivefrederick 18d ago

I didn’t admit anything. Trump said he obliterated Iran’s nuclear ambitions months ago. Then he started an unnecessary war with them since, apparently, he lied about obliterating their nuclear program. Remember, it all started with us bombing a school for girls. Now we have a bunch of our kids killed and injured for what. Maybe you have an answer to that. While you’re answering that, please tell me how much longer this unnecessary war that is sucking all of our money and resources away will last. I’m actually very tired of everybody with any connection to this administration doing everything they can to empty our wallets. Do you also think Trump is a master negotiator still. Please, try to stay informed.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

Yes, he destroyed the facilities and the buried the uranium. Iran started to try digging it up. He then struck at the crews trying to dig it up. Now, you have a government that is demanding we bow to their demands and is threatening countries around it and here you are lying about everything that is happening. Have Americans been killed, yes starting in 1979 when the war was declared. Is Iran sincere about ending it, at this time no they are trying to buy time that Trump isn’t giving them.

•

u/kingwhocares 18d ago

The ayatollah stated they had enough for 10 warheads and wanted to use the against the West

That happened after Trump pulled out and during Biden's term because they knew Trump after winning elections was gonna bomb their enrichment sites.

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

So Biden was president, not Trump. BTW, 2021 was not an election year

•

u/Big-District-6013 18d ago

Iran has the right to defend itself 

•

u/Wolffraven 18d ago

So do the Persians but you seem ok with them being genocided.