r/Naturewasmetal Apr 13 '23

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r/Naturewasmetal 11h ago

Saivodus, the Apex-Predator "Shark" older than GYMNOSPERMS

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Art Credit to Mario Lanzas

There's a popular paleontology aphorism that sharks are older than trees. It's memorable and evocative, but it's also one of those statements whose truth depends almost entirely on what you are willing to call a “shark” and what you are willing to call a “tree.” Devonian forests containing genuinely tree-sized plants existed long before anything resembling a modern shark, while many of the extraordinarily ancient animals routinely presented to the public as “sharks” occupy positions on the opposite end of the Chondrichthyan family tree. However, that changes if we move forward into the Early Carboniferous, something much more interesting begins to happen. By roughly 340–330 MYA, the enormous ctenacanthiform Saivodus striatus was swimming through the sea, making it older than the earliest generally accepted fossil record of true gymnosperms that appeared around 320 MYA. More importantly, Saivodus was not merely some vaguely shark-shaped Paleozoic fish. It belonged to a radiation of chondrichthyans that was considerably closer to the evolutionary lineage of modern sharks and rays than many of the bizarre animals normally used to illustrate the phrase “ancient shark.”

Helicoprion, despite appearing constantly in books and documentaries about prehistoric sharks, was a eugeneodont and is now securely interpreted as a stem holocephalan, as such, its closest living relatives are ultimately ratfish, not sharks, same with Cladoselache. Even Stethacanthus, perhaps the single most iconic Devonian “shark,” belonged to the Symmoriiformes, a group that several modern phylogenetic analyses likewise recover on the holocephalan side of the shark–chimaera split. Ctenacanthiforms are different. Although their exact internal relationships remain messy, and “Ctenacanthiformes” itself may not represent one perfectly clean monophyletic group, they are commonly interpreted as total-group elasmobranchs, lying on the evolutionary side of Chondrichthyes that ultimately produced sharks and rays. Saivodus therefore occupies a particularly fascinating position: not a modern shark, not even a crown-group shark, but something far more legitimately describable as a shark relative than many of the Paleozoic creatures habitually given that label. If Helicoprion and Stethacanthus represent spectacular experiments undertaken by branches whose surviving legacy lies with the chimaeras, Saivodus belonged to the side of the family tree whose descendants would linger in the minds of many a man as the paramount embodiment of oceanic death.

Saivodus lived in tropical Carboniferous seas spread across what are now North America, Europe, and North Africa. Its fossils have been reported from places including Britain, Ireland, Belgium, Austria, Morocco and the United States, demonstrating that this was not some obscure predator confined to one unusual lagoon, but a truly cosmopolitan feeder. Saivodus belonged to a broadly distributed marine fauna at exactly the time ctenacanthiform diversity was exploding. A 2024 review describes the Viséan–Serpukhovian interval of the Mississippian as the point of the group's greatest diversification, with numerous species coexisting in shallow marine environments shortly before the assembly of Pangaea.

And Saivodus was enormous.

For most of its scientific history, the animal was frustratingly known almost entirely from teeth. Some Saivodus teeth have bases exceeding 6 cm across, immediately suggesting an animal radically larger than most contemporary chondrichthyans. Then Mammoth Cave National Park produced something extraordinary: actual cranial cartilage associated with Saivodus teeth, including a lower jaw roughly 60 cm long. That discovery gave paleontologists something considerably better than isolated teeth with which to constrain the animal's proportions. Published work conservatively suggests individuals of at least 4–5 meters or more, while extrapolations from the largest known teeth have produced estimates in the 6–8 meter range, and National Park Service reconstructions have proposed still larger individuals. One NPS assessment has suggested 8–10 m for exceptionally large Mammoth Cave animals and potentially around 11 m from enormous Irish teeth, although those upper estimates should be regarded as considerably more speculative than the basic conclusion that this was a very large predator.

This is why I think Saivodus has a legitimate claim to being the first elasmobranch for which "apex predator" becomes essentially unavoidable as an ecological interpretation. Earlier chondrichthyans were certainly predators, and some were impressive animals, but they inhabited Devonian oceans containing gigantic placoderms. With Saivodus, we are dealing with a post-Devonian hunter potentially larger than a Great White, equipped with a huge jaw and a specialized predatory dentition in ecosystems where there simply is not an obvious larger vertebrate predator sitting above it.

Interestingly, though, its teeth were not miniature great-white teeth. Saivodus possessed the classic multi-cusped grasping architecture associated with early ctenacanths: a prominent central cusp accompanied by lateral and intermediate cusplets. Work on later Saivodus material interprets this dentition primarily as a puncturing-and-grasping apparatus, suited to seizing prey rather than carving enormous pieces out of it with serrated blades. Think something more comparable to a colossal Sand Tiger rather than a Great White per se. The prey would then have been manipulated and swallowed rather than dismantled through repeated sawing bites.

The well-established S. striatus record belongs primarily to the Mississippian, especially the Viséan and Serpukhovian. Yet teeth assigned to the genus have also been reported from the Permian. Most spectacularly, Saivodus sp. occurs in the Kaibab Formation of Arizona, alongside a surprisingly diverse assemblage of Permian ctenacanthiforms, and keep in mind that this formation is approximately 270 MYA. If those Permian teeth genuinely represent the same genus-level lineage as the giant Mississippian Saivodus, we may be looking at a lineage stretching from roughly the mid-Carboniferous into the Permian, roughly 60–70+ million years of geological history.

We tend to treat the Paleozoic as a strange prelude populated by "primitive sharks," after which the real story begins with hybodonts and eventually modern neoselachians. But by the Early Carboniferous, the basic ecological phenomenon we associate so strongly with sharks was already here: large, fast, wide-ranging elasmobranch predators occupying the upper levels of marine food webs. Sure, they wouldn't look anatomically identical to a modern shark with their characteristic dorsal-fin spines; however, the broader ecological pattern is eerily familiar, and the lineage would never really surrender the ocean again.

Ctenacanthiforms themselves eventually vanished. Hybodont-grade elasmobranchs flourished afterward. Crown sharks diversified later still, and by the Cretaceous the Lamniformes & Carcharhiniformes would start moving into the roles we still see them in today. The individual branches changed, mass extinctions repeatedly rearranged the players, and the anatomical machinery evolved enormously. Overall, the ecological experiment that becomes unmistakable with animals like Saivodus has proved unimaginably durable.

Works Cited

Clark, Mary Ann, et al. “26.1 Evolution of Seed Plants.” Biology 2e, OpenStax, 28 Mar. 2018, openstax.org/books/biology-2e/pages/26-1-evolution-of-seed-plants. Accessed 7 Sept. 2026.

Coates, Michael I., et al. “A Symmoriiform Chondrichthyan Braincase and the Origin of Chimaeroid Fishes.” Nature, vol. 541, 2017, pp. 208–211. https://doi.org/10.1038/nature20806.

Duffin, Christopher J., and Michał Ginter. “Comments on the Selachian Genus Cladodus Agassiz, 1843.” Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, vol. 26, no. 2, 2006, pp. 253–266. https://doi.org/10.1671/0272-4634(2006)26[253:COTSGC]2.0.CO;226%5B253:COTSGC%5D2.0.CO;2).

Hodnett, John-Paul M., et al. “Ctenacanthiform Sharks from the Permian Kaibab Formation, Northern Arizona.” Historical Biology, vol. 24, no. 4, 2012, pp. 381–395. https://doi.org/10.1080/08912963.2012.683193.

Hodnett, John-Paul M., et al. “New Ctenacanth Sharks (Chondrichthyes; Elasmobranchii; Ctenacanthiformes) from the Middle to Late Mississippian of Kentucky and Alabama.” Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, vol. 43, no. 3, 2024, article e2292599. https://doi.org/10.1080/02724634.2023.2292599.

Hodnett, John-Paul M., et al. “Sharks in the Dark: Paleontological Resource Inventory Reveals Multiple Successive Mississippian Subperiod Cartilaginous Fish (Chondrichthyes) Assemblages within Mammoth Cave National Park, Kentucky.” Parks Stewardship Forum, vol. 40, no. 1, 2024, pp. 53–67. https://doi.org/10.5070/P540162921.

Schnetz, Lisa, et al. “Rise and Diversification of Chondrichthyans in the Paleozoic.” Paleobiology, vol. 50, no. 2, 2024, pp. 271–284. https://doi.org/10.1017/pab.2024.1.

Tapanila, Leif, et al. “Jaws for a Spiral-Tooth Whorl: CT Images Reveal Novel Adaptation and Phylogeny in Fossil Helicoprion.” Biology Letters, vol. 9, no. 2, 2013, article 20130057. https://doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2013.0057.


r/Naturewasmetal 9h ago

“A Peculiar Ridge” - An illustration of a pair of Europejara curiously looking at the hump of an almost sleeping Concavenator, which I made for a commission [O.C]

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“A Peculiar Ridge” - An illustration of a pair of Europejara curiously looking at the hump of an almost sleeping female Concavenator, which I made for a commission.

Its coloration was inspired by a Path of Titans (game) skin, at the client’s request

The Concavenator was a Carcharodontosauridae theropod from the Barremian (Cretaceous – approximately 125 million years ago) of what is now Spain. Like Europejara, it was found at Las Hoyas, a Lagerstätte (a fossil deposit characterized by exceptional preservation) of the La Huérguina Formation, in Cuenca, which preserves a continental subtropical environment consisting of wetlands, channels, and floodplains.

Its fossil includes an almost complete skeleton, scale impressions on the tail and feet, and controversial marks on the arms, interpreted by some as muscle attachment sites and by others as possible feather attachment sites or similar structures.

Its most distinctive feature is the large dorsal hump, whose function remains unknown, with hypotheses including sexual display and thermoregulation.


r/Naturewasmetal 3h ago

A preserved foot of the giant Moa bird. An extinct species native to New Zealand. It grew to be 12 feet tall.

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r/Naturewasmetal 12h ago

A Sarcosuchus ambushes a herd of Ouranosaurus (by Raph Lomotan)

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r/Naturewasmetal 17h ago

A book about the story of Benjamin, the last thylacine, produced by Wenyu Ren

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r/Naturewasmetal 13h ago

Stegosaurian Titans

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Stegosaurs were the flailman of the Jurassic period. Wielding a dangerous Spike with unmatched agility and range, they could bring down the biggest and most vicious predators of their day.

Two stegosaurs stand Head and shoulders above the rest as the largest of their kind and among the largest of all armored dinosaurs.

Stegosaurus ungulatus was the largest of its genus. some 8 to 9 m in length and Weighing close to seven tons, it was one of the largest armored dinosaurs to ever live in North America. It had massive meter tall plates on its back and was among the most formidable prey animals of its day.

Dacentrurus, both the type species armatus and the unnamed Iberian species, rivaled stegosaurus ungulatus is size. Measuring 9 m in length and weighing over 7 tons. The type species armatus is alone 9 m in length and the Iberian species has giant femurs referred to it meaning it was just as big. Unlike stegosaurus which was taller and more display oriented, dacentrurus was far spikier and porcupine like.

These two were the largest of their kind and among the most formidable armored dinosaurs and dinosaurs of the Jurassic period. And amazingly they were not separated from each other. Both coexisted on the island of Iberia at the same time in the late Jurassic some 150 million years ago.

In the lourinha formation of Portugal, stegosaurus ungulatus was discovered some 20 years ago. The giant dacentrurus has been known from the formation for decades now.

They both lived on the same island and probably crossed each other's paths although they likely prefer different environments. Stegosaurus was likely an inland dweller while dacentrurus was closer to the coast.

https://x.com/DanPalaeon1/status/1753028055050674267

https://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/dinoappendix/HoltzappendixWinter2011.pdf

https://doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2014.0984

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6853308

https://doi.org/10.1671/039.029.0420


r/Naturewasmetal 1d ago

(Art by me) Tyrannosaurus rex killing Edmontosaurus annectens (and tiny Alphadon marshi on tree)

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…and the chase is on.
Tyrannosaurus rex is an ambush predator. Bursting out from the undergrowth, he aims for the limbs. With the strongest bite force of any terrestrial animal, he crushes a forelimb severely, rendering this 7-tonne Edmontosaurus annectens unstable. Now, for the final blow…


r/Naturewasmetal 1d ago

Lesmesodon Edingeri: An extinct genus of placental mammal within order Hyenodonta that lived during early to middle eocene..

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Credits to:Camus Altamirano..


r/Naturewasmetal 1d ago

Coprolito???

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Me podrían ayudar a identificar esta estructura de 30 x 50 cm


r/Naturewasmetal 2d ago

Arguably, the 2nd largest predatory Chondrichthyan of the Miocene, Hexanchus andersoni was a 10+m. long behemoth that dominated the deep.

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Credit to Joli AquaIslander,

Second only to Otodus and the undisputed predator of the night & deep seas, Hexanchus andersoni is the largest known Hexanchiforme, the most basal of the Elasmobranchs and a lineage that has essentially survived unchanged since potentially the Permian.

r/Naturewasmetal 2d ago

The evolution of mammals is overhyped on claims of "superiority, but seriously underrated in terms of how anomalous it is in Earth's history.

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A lot of dullards like to harp on about "mammalian superiority" which is incredibly annoying as it seriously overrates a lot of traits that appear in mammals that are also present in other animals(namely intelligence, endothermy, high species count).

In the process, I think it actually causes us to ignore what actually makes the rise of mammals so unusual in the grand scheme of Earth's history. As far as I know, they're the only clade of tetrapods to be the dominant terrestrial giants of their heyday, disappear from those megafaunal niches for over 100 million years, before somehow coming back to occupy those same niches.

While everyone knows about the Stem-Mammals and how modern mammals started off as those tiny burrowers that lived alongside herbivores, I think that underplays a lot of unusual aspects about the rise & fall & rise again of the synapsids.

I mean, the last common ancestor of the Amniotes was over 320MYA. We're essentially talking about a primitive lineage of tetrapods that essentially split off right at the beginning of permanent land inhabitance, developed incredible diversity and a plethora of sizes, before being essentially wiped from the face of the Earth by 2 mass extinction events(Permian-Triassic & Triassic-Jurassic). Literally all of the mammals we have today are the descendants of one tiny branch of the Synapsid family tree. Like, all of the Dinocephalians, Gorgonopsians, Dicynodonts, Therocephalians, Caseasaurs, Edaphosaurs, and Ophioacodonts are EXTINCT.

By all accounts, Synapsids should either be completely extinct or a tiny relict lineage in the most secluded corners of the world, like Ratfish, Coelacanths, or Tuataras. Yet they not only survived by occupying the most fossorial roles imaginable, but also evolved over a period so long that they became completely unrecognizable from the original synapsids, developing singular jawbones, a neocortex, endothermy, hair, and milk.

AND SOMEHOW, that singular fossorial clade ended up being the ones to successfully radiate in the Cenozoic and replace the Archosaurs as the dominant Megafauna after the K-T extinction. Heck, they even occupy niches the prior golden age of Synapsids were unable to evolve for such as marine living, flying predators & frugivores, and truly cursorial herbivores.


r/Naturewasmetal 2d ago

Somewhere in the Yukon (Canada) during the Late Pleistocene, an American Cheetah (Miracinonyx trumani) successfully catches a salmon while fishing in a river. In the distance, a flock of Bald Eagles (Haliaeetus leucocephalus) soar and watch. Artwork by HodariNundu.

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r/Naturewasmetal 2d ago

Deinotherium bozasi was a mid-sized member of its genus, at about 9 tons and up to perhaps 12 feet tall, and the last of its genus to survive, well into the Pleistocene until about 1 million years ago (by CamusAltamirano)

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r/Naturewasmetal 3d ago

What affect did the Great American Schism have on global marine life?

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Basically the title, what effect did the closing of the Central American Seaway have on global ecosystems? I can't find much on it outside of local fauna and potentially helping cause the ice age. Did it just not have much of an effect or just overshadowed what that the ice age was already causing?


r/Naturewasmetal 4d ago

Is largest confirmed purrusaurus have longer skull than deinosuchus?

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I was arguing with somebody online about size of the purrusaurus and deinosuchus but then he suddenly said that "deinosuchus had proportionally massive skull and still didn't have longer skull than purrusaurus" when i heard that i immediately called him not to be ridiculous but then when i later was looking into it willy nilly. Largest deinosuchus skull is said to be around 1,5 meter long and largest purrusaurus skull is also said to be 1.5. Long. Is this true? The 1.8-2m deinosuchus skull is said to be not accurate.

What do you think? Does anybody know more accurate knowledge on the subject cause this ingormation is really frying my brain


r/Naturewasmetal 5d ago

A Patagonian jaguar, Panthera onca mesembrina, a paleosubspecies close to twice the size of a contemporary jaguar, stalking the landscape in the Late Pleistocene (by Augustin Diaz)

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r/Naturewasmetal 5d ago

Crotophaga sulcirostris by Dictvm Mortvm

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Crotophaga sulcirostris también conocido popularmente como pijuy, tijo o guardacaballos entre otros, es una especie de ave cuculiforme de la familia Cuculidae que se distribuye ampliamente por las zonas tropicales y subtropicales del continente americano. Habita desde el sur de Texas en Estados Unidos hasta el norte de Argentina y Chile.


r/Naturewasmetal 5d ago

Life... hits you hard (Art by Mantian2006)

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source

Carcharodontosaurus vs Spinosaurus


r/Naturewasmetal 6d ago

The hand of the Ice Age dragon Megalania (Varanus priscus). Full skeletal mount in second pic.

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r/Naturewasmetal 6d ago

Series of Mesozoic fossil formations (part 2) by XDeadDragonX98

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r/Naturewasmetal 6d ago

Series of Mesozoic fossil formations by XDeadDragonX98

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r/Naturewasmetal 7d ago

If you could bring back exactly ONE non-avian dinosaur, but you had to release it somewhere on Earth today, which dinosaur would cause the biggest ecological disaster. And why?

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r/Naturewasmetal 8d ago

An apocalyptic world with prehistoric creatures by GoGo_MrDoDo

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r/Naturewasmetal 8d ago

A nesting pair of enormous Gigantohierax, a cousin of buteonine hawks estimated to be second in size only to Haast’s eagle, was an endemic species to Cuba that was lost after human occupation (by BeyondOur_WOrld)

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Second photo added to contextualize its size, pictured at top with another giant Caribbean hawk, Buteogallus irpus, at bottom (by artbyjfc)