The cost of wanting everyone to like you

https://makemenemotionalagain.substack.com/p/the-cost-of-wanting-everyone-to-like

It amazes me how many of my therapy clients (I'm a therapist) have traumatic memories of school lunch. That’s where I felt the most unlikable and unwanted too. Ninth grade, packed tables, windowless room. Sitting off to the side near the bathrooms eating a floppy piece of lukewarm pizza. My one friend who had the same lunch period beside me. Both of us hoping the popular girls would look our direction. The girls who were beautiful, yes, but what mattered more was their social power. They could make you cool just by laughing at your jokes. If you were funny. If you could just lighten up.

There’s something about me I don’t like anyone knowing. I often feel unlikable. Awkward, unfunny, too serious. The opposite of Matthew McConaughey or Idris Elba. Shy, introverted, a downer.

It gets triggered these days as an adult in big groups. Parties, shows before the band goes on, corner conversations with neighbors. Times you’re supposed to lighten up, make small talk, have a good time. I’m shot back to my high school cafeteria, bouncing between clunky conversations, restless and turned inward, never landing on solid ground.

Then comes the shame. Why is everyone else normal and fun? Why can’t I just relax? What’s wrong with me? I try to bum a cigarette from the other freaks on the edges or order another diet Coke at the bar. Or leave, picking at myself inside for giving up.

I didn’t understand much about myself back then. What teenager does? Especially a teenage boy who felt like he didn’t belong anywhere except his room playing video games.

I didn’t know the weight I’d carry for years of my mom telling me when I was younger, “You’re just shy, like all the men in this family.” I now appreciate she was trying to cheer me up about being quieter than other kids. But it landed inside of me as shame. Why is everyone else normal and fun? Why can’t I just relax? What’s wrong with me?

I didn’t know yet that holding a guitar in my hands and singing could save me. Later in high school I started a pop punk band with my friends. I still felt awkward before and after shows, but on stage I became someone else. Actually, I became more myself. I could express my feelings through my songs. And some people were interested, even some of the popular girls.

I didn’t understand yet that I was being cheated out of the full, vast, mystical experience of being human. I didn’t know that gender played into it at all. Everyone gets shafted by this society organized to maximize profits for the rich and powerful. Men get it a certain way, though.

The rest of the linked post is about how socialized gender norms play into it. Let me know if you can relate or something I wrote isn't quite sitting right with you!

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u/Gemini_zyx 5d ago

I understand the struggles of feeling isolated and like I'm not clicking with social groups. Just this weekend I attended another social meetup and was aware I was the one standing by myself while everyone else seemed to effortlessly move into existing social circles. I ache so badly to feel like I can exist in that world.

But the problem isn't the fear of not being liked it's not even being noticed. At another meetup I attended I sat at the bar table with about 6 people. It was basically my first event with this meetup and 2 women had also turned up for the first time.

The whole hour was people in the groups talking to these new women asking what brought them here and why. I leaned in and tried to contribute but was very aware no one actually wanted to get to know me.

I am a man very able and will, perhaps too willing sometimes, to be open about emotions it broadly I feel overlooked in a world were people are busy and lives are full.

The typical advice to isolated people is to "put yourself out there and join a club". Nobody ever thinks about the immense emotional cost that comes from trying that repeatedly and still thinking "nobody here actually wants me to be here. They might not not want me, but they don't WANT me"

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u/ich_bin_alkoholiker 5d ago

Hey, I completely relate to both what OP posted and what you’re saying. I’ve had the same exact experiences, even as a woman.

It’s really frustrating wanting so bad to fit in with people, putting in effort, and then feeling like it’s not good enough. I feel like it’s hard to connect to people on a deeper level. I often am jealous of those who can have effortless conversations and know how to pivot well when needed.

Even being on apps to make friends, I’ll put in a really thoughtful response and just get one word answers back.

It’s really starting to feel like there is just something wrong with me.

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u/rexpup 12h ago

It's really frustrating how much effort it can take. Then when you are exhausted, you don't have energy to find other people who are actually trying. It just feels like a spiral of lowering energy as your expectations lower.

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u/ithasbecomeacircus 5d ago

I think the “join a club” advice is misleading. Social skills are skills and require practice. Like any skill, some people pick it up faster than others and some people were lucky enough to come from families that provided opportunities to learn the skill at a younger age.

The underlying goal for the “join a club” advice is to practice social skills. However, if this isn’t explicitly stated by the advice giver, then the person receiving the advice will be set up for disappointment. A club won’t solve social skill issues, but the person may improve their social skills if they use the club as an opportunity for intentional practice over long periods of time. Like any new skill, learning is uncomfortable.

I’m the neurodivergent daughter of two neurodivergent parents, and it took about 15 years of intentionally putting myself in social situations for me to catch up to my peers 🤷‍♀️ It was worth it though. I’m in my mid forties and I’m able to socialize easily and without anxiety both personally and professionally.

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u/Gemini_zyx 5d ago

I don't mind trying to practice my social skills but what hurts is constantly putting myself out hoping for some positive feedback that doesn't really come.

It means every attempt to socialise comes from willpower and not because I actually enjoy it. Which is exhausting.

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u/hornyhenry33 5d ago

Exactly my experience too. People who give the "join a club" advice assume that by having social skills everything will be wonderful when in reality my experience (as someone with good social skills) is that you will still be as dissappointed as if you didn't have them. The only difference being that you are even more frustrated since what's supposed to work hasn't worked for you.

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u/kira913 5d ago

I feel my social skills are very proficient. I can make small talk with most people I run into in an aisle at the store no problem.

Joining a club is difficult for me for two big reasons. First, a lot of clubs in adult life make themselves a lot less accessible and more difficult to find than in college life years ago. Many groups are so used to being a group that they entirely forget what it's like to be new. I went to a little volunteer thing the other day, and the guidance for where to meet was "at [name of company], upstairs!" I show up and it's a 2 story building with about 4 storefronts per floor. [Company] is only the right side first floor storefront. Everything locked and black. I leave an awkward message on a ring doorbell they have and mill around anxiously for about ten minutes until somebody else shows up. Apparently, I was supposed to magically know that the unmarked storefront on the lefthand second floor was also [company]. Hope they got a good chuckle out of my awkward ring doorbell message...

Second, there's a pretty big divide between new members and active members. Not every club goes out of their way to actually include or be welcoming to new members. In those cases, I've tried to actively insert myself into conversations, and I have very little success. Sometimes the club or club event is not very conducive to trying to interact with people. I thought that volunteer thing I mentioned was a great opportunity to socialize, but I ended up mostly counting and sorting things the whole time. If I made conversation, I'd lose count.

Fact of the matter is, it's not just an individual's social skills that matter, but also the group's social skills, openness to newcomers, and sheer luck. My therapist says I'm doing great at trying to put myself out there, it just sounds like I've had really bad luck. But it's so fucking exhausting fumbling to try and get enough of a foothold somewhere to actually make friends

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u/Brokkerlie 5d ago

I feel like the misconception is also that the other person truly doesn't need you there. Not in a bad way, but in a 'I don't care at this point if you are here or not'. So I think the feeling is not wrong, but it is through contact and getting to know one another how you start to build up something with someone else, and shift their perspective from seeing you as a stranger to seeing you as someone nice that also joins what they are doing.

There are ofcourse people who make you feel more welcome, but those feel like the exception and not the rule. (and people are busy with their own lifes so there often is no malicious intent I would say)

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u/NightingaleStorm 5d ago

For what it's worth, I work in a unionized government job (managing roadwork permits, I'm not a cop or anything) and I still feel bad when my co-workers plan to go out to lunch and invite everyone except me. The "leader" (he's not actually the boss but the boss doesn't show up half the time) has started talking to me and involving me when possible, but he works from home a lot because of childcare issues, and the others will absolutely just ignore me completely unless they need to tell me to do something work-related. I don't think this is entirely about being unprotected at work and unrestricted capitalism. I think maybe it's just a people thing.

Part of the problem is that my interests are extremely boring or creepy to most people. A hobby of playing guitar is going to go over a lot better than a hobby of trainspotting or reading about industrial disasters. I also have some expressive hobbies, but I've accidentally burned enough people by talking about romance dynamics I like writing that give them the ick or whatever that it's put me off trying again. I think that's part of the downside of expressing yourself through art - when people tell you that your self-expression is bad or gross, it's emotionally rough.

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u/SpecialistSquash2321 5d ago

I'm sorry that I don't have something more insightful in this response but something you said made me curious. By "romance dynamics I like writing" do you mean you write romance novels?

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u/NightingaleStorm 5d ago

Not professionally - a lot of it is fanfiction - but yes.

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u/SpecialistSquash2321 5d ago

That's so cool. You haven't found your people yet? Do you spend any time writing on wattpad or anything?

Booktok seems so popular now I'm surprised people would be weirded out by that tbh. Maybe I've just been around it too long.

Sorry, again, not that insightful. I just wanted you to know that I don't think it's bad or gross at all. I think that's awesome.

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u/NightingaleStorm 5d ago

I mostly post on Archive of Our Own, and my tastes are actually the exact things Booktok tends to be super grossed out by - I like physically strong, dominant women and pretty, intelligent men, with emphasis on everyone involved being a competent, mature, trustworthy adult. This is not popular in the science fiction/fantasy romance world. The popular books are ones like Ice Planet Barbarians, which is pretty much what you'd guess from the title. (Obligatory disclaimer: it's great that women can enjoy books like that. I am thrilled that those books exist for the people that like them. I, personally, specifically, do not like those books.)

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u/SpecialistSquash2321 5d ago

Ah yes, AO3 is a good one. My next guess was going to be tumblr.

I didn't realize Booktok had a type, but now that you say that, I could see it. I haven't ever heard of that title but it sounds about right. I don't see many egalitarian femdom type narratives in that space and I'd assume it's fairly niche. Still though, I don't believe in yucking someone's yum, particularly with fantasy romance. That's literally the whole point of it imo.

But yea, probably roaming into territory outside of the scope of this sub now lol. I appreciate you sharing and entertaining my curiosity :)

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u/UpstairsOwn7741 5d ago

One of the aspects I love most about Michael Crichton's Andromeda Strain (book and the movie) is how every character is just a mature, trustworthy and competent person, whilst not without flaws, so I absolutely get you on wanting to place that emphasis on your characters.

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u/SyrusDrake 5d ago

It's my experience too that when people say to "just get a hobby" or that any hobby makes you interesting, they usually mean a hobby from a limited list of "approved" hobbies.

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u/dahJaymahnn 5d ago

I can relate to this, especially from my early adulthood. The turning point for me was the realization that I'm autistic. It doesn't make socializing any easier, but at least I'm more forgiving of myself for finding it hard.

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u/Kippetmurk 5d ago

I can relate to this feeling:

Why is everyone else normal and fun? Why can’t I just relax? What’s wrong with me?

But - at least for me - the cause is the complete opposite of the one you describe. It took me a while to realize it wasn't (isn't) about people not liking me. It's the feeling that I don't really like them. Or, more generously, I don't like these specific social interactions with them.

I did use to hang out with social, prestigious people at school lunch. The popular girls you write about were my 'group'... and then I left them and became the loner you also write about. I wondered why for a long time, but it was just because I didn't feel at home with them.

This feeling of shame in clubs or at dance parties or social events? Yeah! I have that. But it's not because other people don't want me there; it's because I don't want to be there.

That's also difficult: why does everyone else like this and I don't? What is wrong with me?

Same feeling but different cause.

One of the saddest social moments I can remember is finishing my university studies and seeing all my fellow students tearfully saying goodbye to each other, and realizing I did not care one bit for any of them. Made me very sad.

It didn't make me sad because I would miss them, it made me sad that I wouldn't. What's wrong with me?

Even the example of joining a band... yeah, exactly. For me it was not music, but I recognize the feeling of finding your group and going "this clicks for me", and feeling more yourself and more accomplished. But again: it's not really about being accepted by that group as much as it is about you accepting them. At least that's how it works for me.

I don't really know the solution. Finding your own group helps, but those can be difficult to find, and other people have much broader groups they connect with much easier. The only solution I've settled on is self-acceptance and self-forgiveness, as always, but... y'know, that's a bit of a cop-out.

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u/fish_and_flowers 4d ago

Some people are going to have a smaller friend group (or potential group of people who could be friends) than others. I feel like we're socialized to think we should all be extroverts and able to get along with everybody, but that's not really realistic. It's just going to be harder for certain kinds of people to find "their people," but that's ok. Quality over quantity matters in the long run.

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u/Kindly_Weakness_6713 5d ago

It’s hard to AI posts. Not saying you didn’t write what you handed to AI, but it strips all of the humanness behind the story. It’s borderline unreadable.

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u/Horrywaur 4d ago

You know that meme of the bird doing standup comedy and the someone in the crowd says "boo! get better material", then the bird starts sweating because all his cards have the same thing written on them?

OP's cards all have the word 'capitalism'.

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u/futuredebris 4d ago

You're right, I'm a Marxist.

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u/Horrywaur 4d ago

"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

This really shouldn't need saying, but Marxism cannot explain everything. It's a theoretical tool that's sometimes useful for analysing certain aspects of social existence (though imo Marxists vastly overestimate its utility in a 21st century context). When you obsessively force it into every analysis, you dilute its usefulness. You end up forcing reality to fit the theory rather than adapting theory to fit reality.

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u/Cartheon134 5d ago

I had this problem for a long time as well. I think it was all in my head though.

I thought other people had effortless friendships and easy access to attention. I was just fooling myself because that's what I wanted. In reality most friendships are extremely shallow. Somewhat disgustingly shallow.

I won't say I no longer want friendships or attention, I definitely still do. I just had to face the reality of what friendships and attention truly are. Friendships are mostly just a matter of mutual survival. Huddling together against the chill of the world.

Attention comes in the form of both positive and negative. In order to receive positive attention you have to also accept negative attention.

I have found the best way to create friendships is to help others, and then gauge how much they needed your help. If they didn't need your help, a friendship is probably never going to happen. If they are in desperate need of help, then they can easily become a friend for life.

Attention is just not worth it imo. But that's up to you to decide.

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u/fish_and_flowers 4d ago

This right here! Speaking wisdom here 😁

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u/Fickle-Theory-623 4d ago

I have literally ruined my body, mental, and spiritual health all in the pursuit of wanting to be liked. I can never get that energy back; I can only never do that again.

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u/Sitheral 5d ago

Regardless of how things went in school, being an adult really isn't time for doing dumb shit just to get people approval anymore. Its time to be yourself and feel great about it.

It requires change of a mindset. No, I'm not on a scene entertaining you. I don't need to do anything. I might, if I feel like it.