r/MensLib • u/jessemfkeeler • Jul 31 '26
The Benefit of a Men's Book Club
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/mens-book-club-male-loneliness-epidemic-6284906•
u/jessemfkeeler Jul 31 '26
I was really taken by this first sentence: “I would like a strong and independent woman as a partner. But if she is already strong and independent, why would she want to date someone like me?”
I have spoken to a lot of my guy friends about the benefit of not only reading but reading fiction and literature. I still balk a bit at the framing of the loneliness epidemic, however I do like the idea of guys coming together, reading and talking about the book they chose. I have seen a lot of these Book Club for Men around the world, so I'm curious how you feel about reading fiction with guys in mind?
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Aug 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Overhazard10 Aug 01 '26
It doesn't help that the conversation around men reading fiction is usually framed in a way that makes reading into a moral obligation instead of a fun hobby. It makes reading sound like eating steamed unseasoned vegetables.
It's always "Men need to READ NOVELS and put down the controllers/phones because it will make them more EMPATHETIC and PROGRESSIVE."
Instead of "Reading is a fun, inexpensive way to pass the time."
I've brought this up before, but this argument is contingent on two assumptions.
Fiction is innately left wing. When it's not. Ayn Rand wrote novels, Orson Scott Card's a raging homophobe, Stephanie Meyer's a card carrying Mormon and J.K. Rowling can't keep her mouth shut about how much she hates trans people.
All men have the same level of media literacy, when they don't. I.E. Racists who love the X-Men.
We also can't sit here and pretend that conservatives don't love Tolkien.
These articles rarely recommend books that men might like, like Clash of Eagles, or Gunmetal Gods etc. It's always romantasy or the books similar to the ones they read in high school, the ones that turned them off reading for pleasure in the first place.
I don't know why the concept of just meeting men where they are is so...foreign to a lot of people.
Not to mention the people who like these articles, more often than not, are either authors of avid readers themselves. Which is why so many of these articles can be summed up as:
"If more men did the thing I like to do, everything would be fine."
There's something deeper here I feel, something that has to do with the protestant work ethic and the way we police "idle time" but this comment is long enough as is.
TL;DR: The internet makes reading sound like eating broccoli.
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u/snake944 Aug 02 '26
Mostly never bother with articles like this cause they inevitably boil down to "Men don't read. No the thing they read doesn't matter." It's so weird watching people attribute some sort of moral value to reading stuff they deem "appropriate". People always baulk when I tell them I read mostly non fiction. Automatic assumption is always some weirdo self help shit. I'm like dudes there are other non fiction that isn't self help
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u/jessemfkeeler Aug 02 '26
It's interesting because I loved reading book before and read a ton and then social media wrecked me, but now I'm coming back. I also think that men for a bit when they think of reading, read a bunch of non fiction self help books which I find irritating. Fiction to me is where the juice is and how I got back to it was following a bunch of male reading accounts like Boys Book Club (Lucas Oakeley), Books are Sick, and Life on Books. They don't recommend romantasy and stuff like that (even though they're not against it) and I got back honestly reading literature again, and authors like Murukami, Ishigao, Steinback, McCarthy, LeCarre who have been on my to read list for a while. Also I didn't punish myself for not reading, but I did have a goal in mind (10 pages a day min) and it was achievable and gained momentum for it.
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u/gvarsity Jul 31 '26
The irony being is one of most prominent reasons a woman would want to date them is because they want and in theory respect and value their independence.
There is an old saying I am paraphrasing that says an unexamined life isn’t worth living and an examined life is painful.
Same for a relationship with a peer instead of a dependent. The fact you are interested is in a strong independent partner is in itself attractive.
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u/jessemfkeeler Jul 31 '26
I think it's admirable, and also very self deprecating on their part. But at the very least I'm glad they are on the way to bettering themselves, even if it's in service of wanting a strong independent woman.
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u/SameBlueberry9288 Aug 01 '26
I...don't really like the logic here.
Idk,the encouragment of self deprecating thoughts like this rubs me the wrong way.
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u/LookOutItsLiuBei Aug 04 '26
That sentence jumped out at me, but for me I value that because I don't want someone to need me. I want someone to want me.
That their life is already full and great, and they can see that I would only add to that. And vice versa of course. I
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u/ComaFromCommas 27d ago
To be honest, I think it would be enough for it to simply be an all gender book club that just kind of focuses on menslib interests. I don’t really see a point in the gender binary/segregation here.
Also, as an aside, I think it’s a lot of pressure on women to specifically emphasize that a “strong and independent woman” is the ideal, when that forces you to define what a strong and independent woman is, which can get inadvertently misogynistic really fast. What happens if you’re in a partnership and something blindsides her and derails her in a way(like a disability) where suddenly she is independent on you and emotionally vulnerable? What if you both expected her to meet a certain achievement, but she gets burnt out from having to endure constant misogyny to meet that achievement? If strong and independent is what you are attracted to, then will you lose attraction to her?
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u/Tharkun140 Jul 31 '26
Show me fiction written with guys in mind and I'll read it. Show me a club where we talk about that fiction and I might attend. However, most of the stuff they sell in book stores is for women, and a lot of that is romance, and so I'm not going to visit these places.
I'm an interactive fiction author. I must write loads and loads of romance in order to get published, let alone sell more than a dozen copies of my games. I don't want to spend my free time reading even more of that stuff, and I certainly don't want to attend a book club where people gush about it, especially when it's clearly not meant for me.
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u/ClimateCare7676 Jul 31 '26
Book stores sell lots of things, not just romantasy. Some of the most popular books are written by men, especially in the thriller, fantasy and scifi genres.
The Witcher game series is based on Sapkowski's books that are sold basically everywhere. Cixin Liu's The Wandering Earth is a short novella you can read in one day. It's pretty damn good. Martin's The Hedge Knight is great, too. All three authors are like top best selling writers of our time.
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u/jessemfkeeler Jul 31 '26
Show me fiction written with guys in mind and I'll read it. Show me a club where we talk about that fiction and I might attend. However, most of the stuff they sell in book stores is for women,
Not gonna lie, this is one of weirdest comments I have heard. Like what you mean what they sell in book stores is for women. It's a book store. One of the most popular series in the world right now is Dungeon Crawler Carl. The Pulitzer Prize winner is about soldier and angels. In fact five of the last six Pulitzer Prize winners were guys writing about guys. The Booker Prize two years was Flesh which is very specifically about a man. Some of the best selling books last year were from John Grisham, James Patterson, Stephen King, Brandon Sanderson, Richard Osmon, Brad Thor. One of the best selling and most popular non fiction writers is Patrick Radeen Keefe. Oprah's Book Club book is "John of John" a book written of a guy about guy. Like honestly, what are you talking about???
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u/FrmrPresJamesTaylor Jul 31 '26
Not worth engaging IMO, I'm not even trying to be rude about it they've just clarified in subsequent comments that their taste is incredibly niche (and they started out with this silly and inaccurate generalization that presumes everything they don't like is "for women")
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u/NeonNKnightrider Jul 31 '26
One of the most popular series in the world right now is Dungeon Crawler Carl
…Wait, is it?
I’m active on r/progressionfantasy and related spaces so I feel I don’t have an accurate view- because like, I know DCC is mega beloved within that community, but I think that’s a niche community? So is it actually popular like, in general?
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u/jessemfkeeler Aug 01 '26
Absolutely. If /r/books has a knowledge of that book then it absolutely is. My local indie and Barnes and Knowles type book stores display that book prominently. There's going to be a TV show in production about it. It's very popular.
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u/mathematics1 Aug 01 '26
I'm active on r/fantasy and r/fantasyromance. It's recommended often in the fantasy subreddit, and people are still aware of it even in the fantasy romance subreddit. It's really popular.
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u/forestpunk 27d ago
Three of the books have spent a total of 54 weeks on the New York Times Bestsellers List.
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u/dan1361 Jul 31 '26
My buddies and I all started reading Warhammer books together! It's been great fun and even gotten some of us into the miniature hobby. I have really enjoyed an extra outlet of expression!!!
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u/Tharkun140 Jul 31 '26
I've read a few Warhammer books, but stopped doing that a while ago. I like aliens and demons, so reading about them getting humiliated and killed by space marines twice a day...
Let's just say I identify with Angron on an emotional level.
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u/dan1361 Jul 31 '26
Ah. I'm not a 40k guy anyway. VERY into Age of Sigmar, personally. I feel like it's slightly more morally ambiguous. For better or worse, lol.
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u/lordkalkin Jul 31 '26
Maybe read some classics. Your complaint is so bizarre when much of the “Western Canon” is dominated by authors who are men and writing books about men. Read Howard Pyles “Merry Adventures of Robin Hood.” It’s the only Robin Hood story I can think of when Maid Marian is barely mentioned. Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. Thomas Pynchon. Herman Melville. Jack London.
Academics started women’s studies courses and courses on women in literature because of male dominance.
Also, reading about other people is a way to build empathy and compassion. Your remarks on reading give a lot of red flags
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u/RigilNebula Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
I'm always searching for sci fi or fantasy novels with a gay main character, written by a man. They are overwhelmingly written by women, and by a long shot, it's not even close.
Quoting from How women conquered the world of fiction:
Over the past five years, the Observer’s annual debut novelist feature has showcased 44 writers, 33 of whom were female. You will find similar ratios on prize shortlists. Men were missing among the recent names of nominees for the Costa first novel award. Here, too, the shortlisted authors over the past five years have been 75% female. This year’s Rathbones prize featured only one man on a shortlist of eight.
So it's not just the person you responded to noticing this.
Edit: It's also interesting that this is considered an issue when men say it. I had a lesbian friend say she disliked reading fiction written by male authors, because she felt like they were writing their fantasy image of lesbians. And fair enough. But I regularly run into the same issue in books women have written with gay main characters. So why would that be ok for her, but it's a problem the other way?
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u/amk Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Try Casey Peel's list as a starting point, though it contains "queer books", so not necessarily a gay-male protagonist: https://kence.org/2026/06/30/queer-books-for-pride-2026-edition/
But Peel does enjoy books like that (I follow his account). If you look at the original Mastodon hashtag, there are more details about each title: https://mastodon.social/tags/queerBooksForPride
IIRC, Robert Jackson Bennett's "The Tainted Cup" and "A Drop of Corruption" has a male protagonist.
[edit: typo]
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u/RigilNebula Aug 01 '26
Awesome, thank you! I hadn't seen this list yet, I'll have to look up some of these.
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u/YeetThermometer Jul 31 '26
Love love love the concept that literature for/by men is a creature of the past. Like everything worth saying by a man was said decades ago.
/s
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u/FatherBlackthorne Aug 01 '26
There is also this weird idea that Patriarchy demands that men suppress and chain themselves into only expressing "acceptable" views. Yet also all the literature made by men under this restrictive system somehow also earnestly reflects their wants and feelings.
Its this weird attitude of "I don't need to listen to Bruce Banner because I already heard the Hulk say his piece." Like sure there is a connection there but it's not the same.
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u/lalalatkes Jul 31 '26
Why is romance “for women”?
What is “fiction written with guys in mind”?
I have been reading weird girl lit almost exclusively for a while now. It’s loaded with sex, romance, and unhinged ladies doing unhinged things. What’s not to like?
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u/Tharkun140 Jul 31 '26
Why is romance “for women”?
Because it's overwhelmingly consumed by women and relies on tropes that appeal to female readers. A typical romance protagonist is an average lady getting swooned by an amazing guy, not an average guy getting swooned by an amazing lady.
There are romance books written for men, but they're a tiny minority. Look at r/Romance_for_men, it's a small community centered around obscure books with AI covers. Not much potential for socialization there.
What is “fiction written with guys in mind”?
Thrillers are a genre that comes to mind as being mostly male focused. I read a few of those, but my local book club never showed any interest in anything even vaguely adjacent. Which, in all fairness, might be because they don't meet very often in the first place.
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u/Delicious-Intern-288 Jul 31 '26
Same. Just finished Sky Daddy. So good. She has sex with an airplane.
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u/VladWard Jul 31 '26
Show me fiction written with guys in mind
So, like, the near entirety of the literary corpus?
Books don't go stale. There is so much literature by, for, and about men in the world and plenty of it is really good.
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u/Certain_Giraffe3105 Jul 31 '26
MensLib book club? Obviously won't have the same benefits of an in-person club but what's stopping us from picking a book as a community, picking a day to discuss it and then on that day opening up a thread to discuss the book?
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u/VladWard Jul 31 '26
Making a post about a book you read or want to read with folks is something we definitely encourage.
Calling something a "r/MensLib book club" is something I'd prefer left to mods and tbh we have tried this a few times in the past. It's just not something we regularly have time for.
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u/Cranksta Aug 01 '26
A car YouTube channel I follow has a book club on their discord. Weird to mention, sure, but I actually really like how this channel approaches "Dudes giving dudes good info about shit" while also offering a decently moderated space to socialize.
The channel has done things like, "How to decorate your space so you don't feel like shit about it anymore" and "How to feel better about yourself by having more skills to enjoy life" etc alongside the car stuff and I find it incredibly wholesome. It's very men-focused but not in a way that feels "boys club" and unwelcome to people who are not men. Just dudes trying to support other dudes.
Anyway they have a book club where they vote on a book every month or so and it puts up pretty varied options which people seem to like. I don't attend but I appreciate that it exists. I'm just there for car stuff, really, but I like seeing people talk about how nice it is to have a place that's welcoming and fun to engage with. One of those things that pops out of unexpected places.
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u/jessemfkeeler Aug 02 '26
Is it Speeeed's channel? I like that guy's content for sure and yeah he does it in a way that seems approachable and less preachy which I think guys like for the most part
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u/Cranksta Aug 02 '26
It is indeed! I think he's hit the balance pretty well and it seems that it's working to reach people that need it.
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u/chaserofdreams99 23d ago
book clubs are funny. on the one hand, i would love to join one - and meet new people. on the other hand, whenever i've moved to a new city and tried to find one, i always hear "well have you tried starting your own?"
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u/CountFistula23 Jul 31 '26
If OP is suggesting forming something online, I would be interested in participating. I haven't seen/heard about any men's bookclub in my community.