r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates • u/Successful_Roof_979 • 8d ago
discussion It's time to admit that some of the biggest misandrists are in fact other men
We often discuss women being misandrist
We rarely discus men being misandrist but let's face men can be just as misandrist as women if not more so than women
This is because women have been studies to have an in group bias while men usually have an outgroup bias in terms of gender
So in short both men and women usually prefer women over men in matter of lenience or better treatment
For example it's often that a male judge would give a woman a more lenient sentence or a male teacher would treat his female students than the other ones
And replacing the male judge or teacher with a female one is not going to do anything to prevent unfair treatment of males compared to females as women have in group bias
We see this for example about how fathers usually treat their daughter far better than their sons and are more lenient with them
Some argue that it's usually the opposite with mothers which usually are nicer to their sone than their daughter but this is specially the only scenario where woman show out group bias at a consistent
So in short while women only shows out group to specific members of their family males show outgroup bias consistently to females even outside of their family
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u/FourEaredFox 8d ago
You just explained gynocentrism.
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u/No-Agency-6985 7d ago
Indeed, gynocentrism is literally baked into the DNA of humanity, evolutionarily speaking, to ensure the long-term survival of the species.
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8d ago
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u/FourEaredFox 8d ago
Crazy redpillers drink water too, are you going to stop drinking water?
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7d ago
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u/EchoBladeMC 7d ago
Do you also not use the term "men's rights" because of the baggage attached to it? How long are you going to continue allowing feminists to dump poison into the well? When you let them control the language you use, you're letting them control the conversation. Do everybody a favor and stand up for what you believe in.
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u/Exavior31 8d ago
The 'Uncle Tom' was a stereotype of a black person who helped perpetuate racism by refusing to take any stand against the racist status quo and attacking others who did, while usually also being enthusiastically subservient to their white owners.
I see a good number of "progressive" men acting in exactly this same fashion when it comes to gender issues. Though some of them come off more like Uncle Ruckus than anything else.
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u/QuixoticQuisling 8d ago
It's more than uncle tomming though; they pro-actively perpetuate and perform it.
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u/Successful-Trash-752 8d ago
You need to understand that for a lot of guys it is also external pressure.
A male teacher that grades everyone fair can still be blamed to be unfairly. Many men that treat everyone fairly can be at a risk. It is simply the easier way to prefer women for them. Basically being more favourable to women, as to not appear unfair.
Our society also emcourages this heavily preference to woman is seen as normal and preferences to guys is seen as evil. If somebody comes out to have no preference then it is simply because of thier own will to be against this specific system.
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u/AlphaHyperion 8d ago
A lot of the "redpill" guys are waking up to the fact the right ain't doing anything for men either. It's just they don't constantly shit on you.
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u/Historical_Ad183 8d ago edited 7d ago
I hear what you're saying. And yes, men can practice misandry. But absolutely no way to the same degree as the worst practicioners amongst women. TERFs are arguably the most politically powerful sector of feminism, based on the amount of legislation they have managed to envoke. And they are made up of entirely women, who's whole spiel is that men are monsters. Their rhetoric has permiated society on practically every level (#DeadMenDontRape to actual laws passed to "protect women from biological men"). I really don't see how this is a debate at all
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u/General_Clutter 7d ago
You're only looking at the most overt type of misandry, which, while it's abhorrent ofc, is still far less influental than the more common attitudes towards men. I'm talking about things such as believing that men are inherently threats, and believing that violence against men isn't so bad. Beliefs, which at their worst lead to things such as the Srebrenica androcide. Would you think those attitudes are more common among men or women? I think it's about equal, personally
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u/Historical_Ad183 7d ago
100% commonly found within women spaces. You can't dismiss a whole sector of society just because it's "the most overt". Just look at the Lindsey Clancy case. Regardless of if she is guilty or not, how many women have seemingly completely disconnected from the possibility that Patrick is a victim, who has undergone one of the worst events a father could. How distastefully women are discussing the case, turning it into a spectacle, to be mused over, while having a glass of red. Maybe Patrick is guilty, but if he isn't, 1000s of women have stacked so much stress on top of an already incomprehensibly painful moment, because their hatred for men is unashamed and highly aggressive. I'm sorry, but again, I really do not see how there is any argument here at all. Yes men can be misandrists. No, not as frequent, to as high a standard, or to as damaging an effect as the women who practice it
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u/General_Clutter 7d ago
Please re-read my comment. Never said overt misandry isn't common or something to be dismissed.
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u/Historical_Ad183 7d ago
Ye, I read it. You can't dismiss a whole sector. If we are talking about who is perpetuating the stigma that men are monsters the most, then we are talking about TERFs 🤷🏾
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u/General_Clutter 7d ago
Well, you've already made up your mind so there's no point in this. Agree to disagree
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u/Historical_Ad183 7d ago
I really did not realize this was up for debate. Is there an organization of men who claim all men are monsters?
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u/General_Clutter 7d ago
I mean, your view isn't the most popular one here, right? Men are killed most often by the hands of men. That is misandry, and i'd argue more impactful than calling men monsters
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u/Historical_Ad183 7d ago
Ok so you genuinely have misunderstood what misandry is. Firstly, men killing men is not misandry. It's just murder, unless they were killed specifically because they were men. Secondly, black men are targeted, and killed, all the time due to the percieved threat of male violence and the association that black men have as bieng the harbingers of scary masculinity. This also, impacts all men to some degree, endangering their lives, to varying capacities. Its not that I've made my mind up, it's more that I know what I'm talking about dude. Just because you feel something does not make it true
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u/General_Clutter 7d ago
Why are the majority of victims of violence men, if not because of misandry? Would love to hear some kind of other reason, because I can't really think of one
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7d ago
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u/Historical_Ad183 7d ago
I'm afraid personal observations will never have much weight to them. The fact is, there are organisations, solely comprised of women, who target men with misandry.
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7d ago
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u/Historical_Ad183 7d ago
Man, idk if you're reading comprehension is suffering today but the conversation isn't how many misandrists are there, it's "some of the biggest misandrists are men". Which is just not true. You're arguing with ghosts
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u/Puzzleheaded_Award88 8d ago
Honestly if women want true equality then they shouldn't be given lenience. When being charged with the same crime, women average 33 months behind bars. Men, usually spend 53 months behind bars.
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u/Suitable-Hand-1059 8d ago
This is true, and no different from women reinforcing gender stereotypes or other harmful behaviors.
Be kind, both to yourself and others. Try to have a little grace for people.
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u/Veldern 7d ago edited 7d ago
As most others have mentioned, there really aren't people saying this isn't true. What I've run into is many more people saying it's just men that are upholding these things, though, of which I'd argue has been the opposite in my life, which is why misandry by women come up more in discussion
Also, probably the more important thing over who is doing it, is why they are doing it
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u/Punder_man 7d ago
The OP has a very valid point.
There is much misandry from men towards men, And much of it is overshadowed by the misandry we receive from women but it does happen.
Equally, despite what feminists would have us believe, Women can and often are even more misogynistic towards women than men are..
A study looked at misogynistic comments on Twitter (Before it changed to X) and found the majority of misogynistic comments towards women came from other women..
Now, this alone does not mean that men are not misogynistic towards women because there absolutely are men who are misogynistic towards women.
But its the same effect OP has pointed out but in reverse..
Feminists are so hyper fixated on "Misogyny from men" that they have assumed that ONLY men can be misogynistic.. Much in the same way it feels like many in the Men's Rights space assume that only women can be misandristic..
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u/Main-Tiger8537 7d ago
but but misogyny kills and misandry annoys... /s is that not like trivializing toxic behavior + distorting data?
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u/Punder_man 7d ago
Well.. when they control the definition of "Misogyny" and can change the definition on the fly to suit their needs... then yeah...
I'm not even kidding here, the "Bar" for what is classified as misogyny has constantly been lowered over the years..
We are now at a point that a man simply looking in the direction of and meeting a woman's gaze is labeled as "Misogyny"Or a man disagreeing with what a woman says is labeled as "Misogyny"
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u/Langland88 8d ago
Yea, I kind of figured this out especially when it comes to certain kinds of employment. I was passed up for a lot of office jobs in favor of women because the women hired other women and the men hired only women.
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u/Specific_Detective41 left-wing male advocate 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's quite apparent when other men don't support men who are victims of DV, molested, raped or sexually assaulted by women. It's usually comments like "you are so lucky" or "you are so weak, why didn't you fight back". Etc.
Men also body shame other men, mock men who aren't strong etc especially when you see toxic gym culture videos where one guy will mock another he isn't as strong or capable of lifting heavy.
Edit: some men, not all men.
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u/Fun_Fennel760 7d ago
That's probably the main reason why men's rights are ridiculed and ignored: lots of men actively oppose that, because they mainly are brainwashed by decades of propaganda of being disposable and of having to fullfil a gender role.
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u/ilikepizza2626 valued LWMA contributor 7d ago
I don't think any of us deny that men can be misandrists and so there's no reason to admit it. But this is bumping up very close to the feminist propaganda of blaming societal misandry on men. Trying to center on male misandrists rather than females is bog-standard misandry.
Some argue that it's usually the opposite with mothers which usually are nicer to their sone than their daughter
This is baseless; there's no evidence that mothers show bias to their sons, and evidence to the contrary.
males show outgroup bias consistently to females even outside of their family
So do females
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u/JuniorLecture102 6d ago
As a feminine man, I've dealt with a lot more misandry from men than I have from women. And when I open up about my struggles, it's usually the women who understand me and sympathise with me, not the men. Most of the time they tell me to man up, grow a pair, and stop complaining.
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u/Agile_Newspaper_1954 6d ago
Studies show that men have significantly less gender bias one way or the other than women. Another study also showed that mothers display greater implicit revulsion to boys’ sorrow. This is empirically untrue
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u/Bot_Ring_Hunter left-wing male advocate 7d ago
I occasionally ban male misandrists from askmen. Often times their response is "but I'm a man", as though that excuses it. There are a lot of men out there that resent being men. A lot of gay men that don't like men. A lot of men that are overcompensating/white knighting that think supporting women means tearing men down.
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u/Valarian514 7d ago
These guys are basically the male version of a pick-me. They'll hate men loud and clear because they think that'll get them puss.
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u/Local-Willingness784 7d ago
and what can we do about it? i know that women have their "Pickmes" and i think there was some debate about wannabe tradwives and "choice feminism" but i just dont know how social and how biological this is, and how much would we be able to change out biased towards women if it was all biological....
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u/FishingActuary 7d ago
Oh absolutely men participate in sexism against our own kind.
Dividing men into tall and short and expecting them to behave differently reminds me of diving women into categories based on their hair color or weight.
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u/ArmchairDesease 6d ago
I’ve been downvoted for saying this before, but finding real solutions for men requires a realistic approach. It’s obvious that a lot of men are neck-deep in machismo, actively supporting the very norms, values, and policies that drive men's issues in the first place.
Take the issue of male disposability: you can’t address it if you pretend it’s an expectation forced upon men by some overpowering outside force. Men themselves uphold it every time they support leaders who push the 'men should be men' rhetoric. In thinking about Italy right now, where a army general is gaining a lot of political traction with fascist-inspired messages, pushing for the reinstatement of mandatory military training for men only, and praising male self-sacrifice for the motherland. Guess the main demographic of his supporters.
This isn't meant to excuse women or feminism. Many women either uphold this system or focus strictly on women's liberation, which channels nearly all public attention and funding away from men's issues. They are as culpable as right-wing traditionalists.
But that doesn't change the fact that a massive chunk of the problem stems from men themselves (mostly right-wingers, but not exclusively) who continuously uphold traditional male gender roles.
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8d ago
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u/intothewild72 left-wing male advocate 8d ago
I think there is no need to admit it, I mean it's quite clear and people don't even argue about it. It's highly visible. Even feminists use it a lot, every time you point out misandry they tell that men do it too. Like it's some kind of debunk. Discrimination does not need to be done by just one (or both) sex for it to be discrimination. Discrimination has no connection with gender in that sense, everyone can discriminate.