Is it important to be in management first?

[u/Actual-Jackfruit-117]

That's it. Just a question.

When getting into the I/O field, is it important to be in management first? What are your experiences, as a non-manager or manager?

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[u/baldy06]

I have fifty years of experience. In my early twenties, I became a manager and learned from my mistakes. Later, I was responsible for over 400 employees. I made more mistakes. The work I have done for the past thirty years has benefited enormously from what I learned. The value to my consulting clients is clear. I/O folks are more valuable when they have hands-on management experience.

[u/SolarCurve → u/baldy06]

I'm interested in starting the I/O path at 50 years old because I've been in management for 20+ years and it's all ultimately people.

[u/Emergency-Trifle-286]

Management has nothing to do with being in I/O. I’ve not been a manager and have no intentions to ever become one

[u/bearcub42]

TL:DR: Yes, being in a leadership role helped me.

I was in the corporate crawl for 24 years before I got my degree. When I started, I was a Director with five teams under me.

It was extremely helpful in class insofar as discussing theory/practice in various areas, I had direct experience to share. My cohort had a pretty balanced age mix but the majority were late 20s. Our discussions from a generational point of view (I'm Gen X and was the oldest in my cohort) were both fascinating and intense.

It helped me get a job almost immediately in the area of organizational change, which is exactly my area of focus because I had seen it done well and also as a total disaster in my different companies and roles. My years of leadership experience allowed me, when I came on board, to really help middle managers who have to navigate large scale changes, be it with the introduction of AI in the environment (that's my sweet spot of expertise) or changes like outsourcing, etc.

So that's my completely anecdotal experience.

[u/creich1]

Why would you need to be in management first?

Although I think the skillset can make someone a strong manager, I have no clue why someone would have to be a manager before going in to IO?

Management also isn't entry level, so I'd posit the vast vast majority have not been in management first.

[u/rationalexpressions → u/creich1]

I think this is hilarious when you are in research asking this question.

[u/creich1 → u/rationalexpressions]

Yeah...and I'm not in management nor have I ever been...crazy story I know. Guess I have to quit my job now.

[u/rationalexpressions → u/creich1]

I think there is a charisma to good and bad managers alike that help them stay management.

The good ones have a self awareness and are empowered and effective to change their environments.

IMO, Academics have a few different flavors to them. I think the inside joke in any higher degrees is hyper specialization gives you big blindsides. I think an IO researcher asking what the value of previous management experience to someone looking into IO is a bit rich, maybe ironic.

[u/creich1 → u/rationalexpressions]

I don't work in academia and nowhere in my comment did I ask what the value of previous management experience would be...my question was why someone would have to have that experience prior to being an IO psychologist.

[u/rationalexpressions → u/creich1]

Fair enough, I lurk here. I use IO in management. I'm not an IO psych.

[u/Empirica_CC → u/rationalexpressions]

It shows lol

[u/Brinzy → u/rationalexpressions]

Do you have any kind of evidence suggesting that I/Os who go into management first have drastically better outcomes than those who don’t? I don’t see what’s wrong with asking the question.

[u/rationalexpressions → u/Brinzy]

I took a few IO classes both in grad level psych and grad level MGMT.

Maybe a small mantra I have would be, "Good management already knows the basics of IO. Good IO already understands the failures of bad Management."

The difference maybe in knowing the other side would be how effective you are at your job on either side?

[u/Brinzy → u/rationalexpressions]

Well, I do agree with the notion of cross-disciplinary learning and getting a better idea of how your coworkers with different background might approach problems. It helps to be pragmatically diverse.

I guess my main criticism is that a person being in management doesn’t necessarily make them a good enough manager to even discern good and bad management outside of outliers. We all know someone who has been at it for years but still drives people away, I would wager. So, I think it’s fine for students to pursue an education in I/O without hands on experience, as long as they are acquiring those lessons (either from their own work or from stories and case studies) alongside their core I/O skills.

[u/Actual-Jackfruit-117 → u/Brinzy]

I was recently told I am unable to advance due to my supervisors unwillingness to train me. I see that as a challenge to challenge him to do better. Me moving up was his idea, afterall.

[u/UltiPon]

No it isn't, although it does help to experiencing the role. If you train and develop your job analysis skills you should be able to better understand roles and professions that you have not hold.

[u/kanyewest42]

What matters is the value you bring to the table, doesn’t matter if you have managerial experience.

[u/the_anna_jane]

Nope, you don't even need to work in management before you work in leadership development. It can help with stories though but you can collect leadership stories by observing the other leaders.

I work in leadership development but don't have a formal IO masters (might do one soon)

[u/MrSpuddies]

Notice how everyone who has been in a management role says it is extremely helpful and everyone who doesn't have that experience says it's not important?

Controversial opinions: its extremely important and perhaps the reason why the industry in general is struggling. It's more obvious to companies what I-O doesn't bring to the table than it is to graducates.

[u/creich1 → u/MrSpuddies]

Never said it wouldn't be helpful, just that it is not a pre-requisite to joining the field.

Limiting the field to exclusively people with management experience doesn't really seem like a good strategy to stop the field from struggling.

[u/reshaoverdoit]

So technically no. You can talk theory all day without being in Management. However, it is much easier to draw on experience and theory when consulting if you have had some management experience.

I'm a part of a small consulting group but my main job is a Manager at a NGO and I have also been in leadership positions at a Fortune 500 company. Because I'm the only one in the group that has been in a higher leadership position, my team tends to ask me about my thoughts more. It's valuable, but not required.

[u/rationalexpressions]

If your goals using IO are to transform a people and a culture as management than yes.

If you just want to be a book worm about it and you didn't like math enough to do economics when you were younger or you thought Econometrics was a boys club and IO was for the poorer white girls struggling with class dynamics in the workplace. . . what was I saying?

Good management already knows the basics of IO. Good IO already understands the failures of bad Management.

[u/Actual-Jackfruit-117 → u/rationalexpressions]

What are you even going on about...