r/EdmontonOilers • u/AsyanongAmbiguous 5 MURPHY • 5d ago
Between Podkolzin & Savoie, who's better Defensively? Who's better Offensively?
Some supplementary info, last Regular Season:
Podz: GP= 82; G= 19; A= 18; P= 37; **+/-**= +16; TOI per GP= 15:23
Matty: GP= 82; G= 18; A= 19; P= 37; **+/-**= +6; TOI per GP= 14:47
Last Playoffs:
Idk where to find their PK & PP minutes....
Thought of this while just thinking about who's our stronger 2-Way Forward between those two young Oilers.
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u/pattperin 88 DAVIDSON 4d ago
I think Podz is a great forechecker. He is tenacious and can turn pucks over by using his frame, make a play, and then help support the more talented offensive players.
Savoie I think of as more like a sneaky strip you of the puck type guy. He will slide in and take the puck before you even know he was there, and then has the scoring touch to follow the play up the ice and finish.
I think Savoie is a really strong back checker and is good in his own zone, I think Podkolzin is great in the O-Zone and excels at forechecking the other teams defensive players and forcing mistakes. Different styles, and it’s why I think Podkolzin plays so well on a line with Draisaitl working the cycle and why Savoie looked so good on the rush with McDavid. Savoie can turn pucks over in transition and hit McDavid, Podkolzin goes and gets pucks back from below the goal line and gets it to Draisaitl. Both very useful players, hoping they both continue to grow
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u/GaerMuil 4d ago
PK in regulation:
Savoie - 1:37 (third in the team), Podkolzin - 0:38 (twelfth)
PP in regulation:
Savoie - 0:50 (seventh), Podkolzin - 0:28 (eleventh)
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u/Massive-Fisherman-57 94 SMYTH 5d ago
To truly know you have to actually breakdown the video of every play. Even +/- is misleading. Did they contribute in anyway to the goal be scored or goal against? Were they in proper positioning the entire time? Were they late coming off the ice? Did they block pass attempts by being in the lane?
So many actual hockey plays can’t be found in these stats. Even in PK time your missing information. Even if you found how many PK goals were scored on them… you don’t see whether they were at fault or if they did everything right but were scored on.
This is why analytics took off in a big way. You miss so much from these box score stats.
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u/MostlyCornyObscurity 5d ago
Analytics are great but they still miss a ton of the little things that don't show up in any data feed. Like how many times a guy just has his stick in the right lane to kill a cross-ice pass before it even happens, no stat tracks that.
From what I've watched Podkolzin seems way more comfortable down low in his own zone, he's physical along the boards and doesn't get lost chasing the puck. Savoie's got better offensive instincts for sure but his defensive game still looks raw to me, sometimes he cheats a bit looking for breakouts and gets caught.
That plus-minus gap between them is pretty stark but you're right, you'd need to sit through every shift to really know if that's a fluke or a pattern. Either way having two guys this young putting up identical point totals with different strengths is a good problem to have.
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u/Massive-Fisherman-57 94 SMYTH 4d ago
But video analytics solves that. Many teams/companies will watch exactly that and isolate players games to watch every single thing.
I can’t recall nor watch it intensively enough to tell you those things. I would agree that it seems like Podz is better down low but to really know like I said really requires deep investigative work.
I think Nurse is a great example… we all remember his blunders but how often did they truly happen in comparison to his great defensive plays and where does that rank against his peers? I think that requires very intense video analysis.
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u/UniqueRon 4d ago
At this point in their career, Podz is more developed both offensively and defensively. Matty has room to improve more.
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u/CriticismSelect9292 92 PODKOLZIN 4d ago
I'd say Savoie is better offensively already. Podz is very specialized into playing with Drai. Savoie in the back half of the season put up the same amount of offense as Podz in the full season once he got going with McDavid.
Podz is substantially better defensively though. One of the best things we could do for this team is to get Podz to start penalty killing full time instead of the part timer he is right now. Savoie was in many cases the guy making the mistake on the PK, though it's clear he is trusted by his time on the PK.
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u/UniqueRon 4d ago
They need to get McDavid and Drai off the PK. Save them to load up the line after the PK.
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u/ManWithBag15 12 CAVE 4d ago
First off, this isn't really a fair comparison due to the differences in their age and experience.
Podkolzin is better defensively and I don't think it's particularly close. All metrics point to him being legitimately elite defensively. And he completely passes the eye test IMO.
Savoie is a bit more of a question mark. Due to his size, his defensive ceiling is always going to be lower than Podkolzin. I would say Savoie is good defensively when considering his size/experience, which sounds like a backhanded compliment but I don't mean for it to be backhanded. He's a slightly undersized player who just played his first NHL season, the fact that he wasn't held his own defensively is a great sign for the future.
Offensively, I think Savoie has some higher end skills that give him a higher ceiling in term of purely putting up points. He's a little quicker and better with the puck on his stick, and I think he's more dangerous on the rush. Podkolzin though, is is a great play driver from the wing, so while he might not ever be a big point producer he's still incredibly valuable and impactful.
Overall I think that last season Podkolzin was clearly the better player, but that's to be expected because he was in his 5th NHL season, and Savoie was a rookie.
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u/KarmaChameleon306 18 HYMAN 4d ago
Savoi was sure coming on strong down the final stretch of the season.
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u/Fine_Personality_999 52 HAMBLIN 4d ago
Yeah these do very little to prove anything.
The reality is both on their own struggle away from elite talent (McDavid or Drai).
Savoie had a stretch last season where he had the worst xGF% on the entire team, when he was played in the bottom 6. Once he was elevated along Drai and McDavid he took off.
There’s also evidence that Podz doesn’t perform overly well in a checking role, but he’s elite defensively when paired with Draisaitl, who the numbers say is elite defensively when he plays with Podz, but less so when he plays with other LWs.
Look into Woodmoney’s WOWYs cards.
Analytics metrics solve all of this.
But for the sake of your argument, Podz is a more finished 200 foot player in all situations.
Savoie offers more offense and should get better defensively as his career takes off (he was already pretty solid in the right situations last year).
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u/boomshocks 86 BROBERG 4d ago
Podz was a marginally better player as of last year, but I doubt that will be the case going forward.
I expect a Peca-lite type player out of Savoie in the future, where as Podkozlin is more of a Troy Brouwer.
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u/Tigt0ne 4d ago
Podz is better but Savoie still has more potential to grow, and likely a higher ceiling.
Podz has a physical intangible over Savoie. He can and will punish dirty play. He's like a bull in a china shop when necessary.