r/DetroitPistons Ausar Thompson 3d ago

Image this is all I can think about regarding the Duren situation

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u/Foi_ 3d ago edited 3d ago

duren does everything a cheap center is supposed to do except really well. any drop off from his production is gonna get him closer to that noel scenario faster then the guys who can play as offensive engines and shoot 3s.

u/jay_catch 3d ago

Man I'm not even a Duren fan like that but "duren does everything a cheap center is supposed to do except really well" is a long winded way of calling him a really good player? And if he gets worse he is closer to a worse player? Because Nerlens Noel is a worse basketball player than Duren. Different games, but come on.

u/PandaPuncherr 3d ago

I think he is saying a cheap center should rebound, play some defense, and finish at the rim.

A great center can also pass and shoot.

Duren is great at rebounding, finishing at the rim, and becoming a better defender.

But he has no post moves, no shot, and isnt a great passer.

u/Beef_Stew4l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago

Nor is he a good defender objectively which is crazy given how athletic he is. Looks like he doesn’t even try in defense imo.

u/Yuuta23 Cade Cunningham 2d ago

He carries to much muscle he's a better defender in the 1dt half compared to the 2nd

u/sanitycheck2001 Cade Cunningham 3d ago

i actually think the piece that he does have that you are missing is he is a pretty good passer actually. obviously not jokic level but above average. everything else you are spot on.

u/aqphs 2d ago

Saying he has no shot is a bit disingenuous, he’s not Drummond. He actually has some touch and has developed a middy over the years. Still plenty young enough to expand that part of his game.

u/PandaPuncherr 2d ago

He made 13 shots outside of 10 feet last year.

u/Dabeastfeast11 15h ago

Thank you for pointing this out. It's obvious a lot of guys either don't watch games or value highlights too much. Someone tried to argue with me that Duren doesn't get spoonfed buckets until I pointed out over 50% of his points came off of 0 dribbles and I asked him how does that happen without him being spoonfed.

u/aqphs 2d ago

Here’s to 20 this year!

u/moldyremains Isiah Thomas 2d ago

A cheap center is a big body that you can throw against a good center.

u/blabula 3d ago

Can Duren dribble? shoot? Create his own shot? Is he a plus defender? Does he distribute the ball well? Can he play with his back to the basket?

I think duren's biggest fear is GM's having another season of tape on him and seeing that he can't or won't develop the aspects of his game that could make him a more well rounded player.

He wants superstar money, but literally the only skill he has is as a lob threat, and one injury can take that away.

I'm not saying let Duren walk, but I think anyone can look at the situation with clear eyes and say he's extremely deficient in the majority of the skills you'd want a max contract player to have. If he wants to bet on himself, go for it by all means and I hope it works out for him.

But with what he brings to the table right now nobody is going to be knocking people over to hand him a max deal.

u/glen_ko_ko Dennis Rodman 3d ago

"I think Duren's biggest fear..."

I don't know the man at all but based off that rap he posted I don't think he's thinking like that at all

u/super_chill_21 3d ago

I mean the guy made an all nba team and is being compared to Noel lol disrespect is crazy there

u/Arepeezy Ben Wallace 2d ago

Naw I'm with you. If you watched him all year he is great option in PNR for lobs and can finish well around the rim. He has only improved since being here in all areas as well.

u/sxuthsi Isaiah Stewart 2d ago

How many times are we going to bring up the mickey mouse all nba bid lol

u/super_chill_21 2d ago

lol if you think Noel has ever been as good as Duren than you shouldn’t be allowed to leave the house. Too stupid will cause injury.

u/sxuthsi Isaiah Stewart 2d ago

Then he deleted his comment after accusing me of saying he’s as good as Nerlens when I didn’t even mention Nerlens 💀

u/adam_j_wiz 1d ago

He made third team in a year where a bunch of stars failed to play enough games to qualify. Then was a net negative player in the postseason. That’s not as impressive a season overall as a lot of you want to pretend.

u/Jokerit208 3d ago

Man I'm not even a Duren fan like that but "duren does everything a cheap center is supposed to do except really well" is a long winded way of calling him a really good player?

No? Duren dunks and rebounds really well, and gives you absolutely nothing else. A cheap center dunks and rebounds. Duren gives you what a cheap center gives you, he just gives you a better version of it. In the regular season, anyway. In the playoffs, Duren has to come off the bench, because his game falls apart to the point where he's a liability on the floor.

A $30m+ center (which you would expect to be the "really good player" you mentioned) AT LEAST adds a post game, a jumper or rim protection to the equation.

u/eternali17 3d ago

That's the issue with big men. Their value is just wonky because of what they do.

u/tuscaloozer Rose 3d ago

That’s not what he’s saying. Just replace the player. You know who else did what a cheap center did, but extremely well and was undersized? Ben Wallace. He rebounded and finished lobs and set good picks and defended the rim. but he didn’t handle the ball well and couldn’t shoot at any level. So if all of the sudden he came back from an injury and couldn’t rebound or defend well or finish at the rim his value would plummet. And that’s what happened to Duren in the playoffs. He didn’t do anything well and when he was on the court we sucked. Was he rushed back too fast? Were the matchups bad for him? Which Duren is coming back? Those are the questions. I’m of the mind we dodged a bullet and if we super maxed him we would have no shot. And I’m almost of the mind that we can’t win with him at 30 mil a year either. Because he’s not even a top 3 center in the East. Kat, Embiid, Bam, the Cleveland bigs, the Orlando bigs I don’t trust Duren against any decent teams big men anymore.

u/jay_catch 3d ago

Ben Wallace is a Hall of Fame center who is an elite rebounder and the greatest defensive big man of his era??? Saying he did what a cheap center but extremely well is again just calling him elite. He stayed elite til he got older. I can't see how regression is a real worry with Duren, a 22 year old who has already out paced his projections and has no major injury history. He certainly has flaws and I don't think he's KAT or BAM, two HoF centers in their prime, or Embiid when he plays (although when does he actually play?). But he doesn't have to be that to be valuable. He certainly has to be better than he was in the playoffs which feels possible. We cannot act like this man has never improved at basketball. Him improving is the only reason we're having all these conversations.

We could replace Duren sure. But if we simply lose him this team will be worse. And the Pistons have no track record of player development to get more talent in here. Our biggest player development success over the last 10 years is...Jalen Duren.

u/tuscaloozer Rose 3d ago

That’s what I’m saying. You can do what a cheap center does but very well and be a hall of fame player. But you don’t have anything else to rely on if you suddenly can’t rebound or defend or finish anymore. We agree on that yes? BUT where you sound honestly delusional is how Durens age means he won’t regress. HE ALREADY REGRESSED. If he hadn’t regressed in the playoffs we would have super maxed him in a second and everyone would be cool with it. We literally all saw him in real time regress. Wtf do you mean there’s no risk for the thing that already happened to happen? Also his workout vids this summer look like shit to me. His camp put out some videos of him dunking and they made me think we are literally better off paying him a qo and losing him. Might age like shit, but I think Duren has had his best NBA season.

u/jay_catch 3d ago

Duren's stats and play regressed in the playoffs, his ability did not. The Magic and Cavs took away his strengths and we're very effective. And he absolutely did not respond well. But the game plan on how to do so was obvious the entire season to anyone who watched the Pistons or even just looked at the roster. Duren is an obviously flawed player. In the playoffs our roster didn't couldn't do much to alleviate those flaws and he played straight up bad. He won't ever be the best center in the league. But I think he's young and improving and is a better asset on the team than not. Looking around the league watching teams try to get bigger to contend with Wemby does not make me think getting rid of a young big man is a smart move. Especially over a couple million. This team is already going to be over the cap and our pieces don't fit together perfectly because that's how we drafted. But the man ain't Nerlens Noel or even close. And if we think we can just pick some guy off the street and easily replace him, I wonder if we have been watching the same Pistons?

"Also his workout vids this summer look like shit to me. His camp put out some videos of him dunking and they made me think we are literally better off paying him a qo and losing him."

Come on man. Now you just hating.

Side Note: I don't think Duren was ever getting the supermax even if he maintained his regular season play in the postseason. I think this negotiation would have dragged out regardless.

u/Foi_ 3d ago

duren is really good by default. not gonna argue against all-nba. im just saying when paul reed can do an approximation of positive duren when we needed him most its mostly because the job description doesnt ask him to do much more then what paul reed does.

u/temujinbk 3d ago

No one game planned for Paul Reed. That will change this year. We’ll see what he’s about.

u/jay_catch 3d ago

Duren wasn't good by default. He was a great pick and roll partner with Cade because of his ability to finish above the rim, one of the league's best rebounders, an imposing physical force in the paint and an improved defensive player (still needs better instincts there). Paul Reed is instant offense and not nearly the lob threat or rebounder. His defense is erratic and he plays smaller. Of course Duren was bad in the playoffs, I'm not debating that. But he does and had to do more than Paul Reed last year.

u/Jokerit208 3d ago

Duren is in no way an imposing physical force in the paint. That's not true on either side of the ball. He dunks and rebounds, but an imposing physical force is a defender that can block shots, has a post game on offense, or if they're truly an imposing physical force, both.

Duren dunks and rebounds and that's it.

u/CrispyBalooga Pistons 3d ago

1/4 of Duren's makes were dunks. 2 and a half dunks per game. What was he doing the other 75% of the time?

u/Fresh_Bulgarian_Miak 2d ago

Lay ups. Certainly wasnt shooting anything away from the basket.

u/Jokerit208 2d ago

Layups and putbacks. Which are the same thing as a dunk.

But thanks for the semantic argument. You really fucking got me.

u/CrispyBalooga Pistons 2d ago

Layups and touch shots 8 feet from the rim are far different than dunks. It's not my fault you didnt watch.

u/Foi_ 3d ago

im just saying as presently constructed the wheels keep turning whether we have duren or not. theres nothing dynamic about durens game that radically changes the offensive and defensive approach whether it be isaiah stewart or paul reed. in other words hes very expendable.

u/Jokerit208 3d ago

The job description asks more, Duren just doesn't live up to it.

You make a good point about Paul Reed. John Collins gives you everything Duren does, and he can also shoot. If Langdon were competent, he would have moved Duren (or package Duren and Ausar) at the draft for an upgrade at the 2-5 and start Collins at the 5 on offense (whether he'd guard the opposing 5 would depend on who we had at the 4).

Instead, we're going to pay Duren as if he was actually a star and didn't disappear in the playoffs, and we're gonna pay Ausar $40m+ like his brother, as if he doesn't destroy our spacing.

u/konja04 Peton 3d ago

He looked at the market this off-season. There wasn't a sign and trade we liked and no one offered him a deal he was looking for that we had to match.

He can go and try to bet on himself this season to get paid next year, but like you show here, you can have a Noel or Schroder issue if it goes bad.

u/soilentgleem 3d ago

On the Pistons side of Duren betting on himelf, Duren in another contract year could potentially be really great for them.

u/LSSwartz23 Jaden Ivey 3d ago

Except he's butt hurt the Pistons aren't giving him and his greatness $300M. If he bets on himself, the relationship is toast. He'll go anywhere besides Detroit. Dude is a delusional diva.

u/ShippingNotIncluded Teal Horse 3d ago

I know we all are on the Duren hate train, but unless he suffers a serious injury he won’t be relegated to a league minimum guy….if the Pistons limit is truly $35M/yr, I can see a desperate enough team offer him that if they had the cap space as a UFA

u/enyinna7 3d ago

I mean, the whole league had an opportunity to offer him a contract and didn't. He doesn't have leverage to force a bigger deal without taking some offer to play in Detroit for at least a year.

u/MaximusStirner 3d ago

The hate train is understandable with his playoff performance but I think this sub forgets that he's still a very talented player who's only 22 years old.

u/LSSwartz23 Jaden Ivey 3d ago edited 3d ago

"Very talented" is quite the stretch. Dude can't shoot, can't dribble, doesn't play defense or protect the rim, not a playmaker. He can rebound and dunk. His muscles are very talented. His feet, hands, motor, and brain are not.

u/LowCress9866 Ben Wallace 3d ago

Don't forget his heart (which he did in the playoffs. Both years)!

u/LSSwartz23 Jaden Ivey 2d ago

Heart=motor. That's why I put motor in there. We're both right!!

u/LSSwartz23 Jaden Ivey 3d ago

Let the desperate team give him that then. We can use that money on better things.

u/dizzymidget44 Jaden Ivey 3d ago edited 3d ago

Kuminga even more recently. Duren is a really solid player but a lot of his looks are just him being the beneficiary of playing with Cade. He can’t create his own offense and if he doesn’t have a mismatch he can’t score. Hes going to find there isn’t the market for him he thinks there is. Not at the price point he wants. It’s dumb to punish the pistons for not valuing at a price no one else in the league does. Where’s the self awareness

u/rusty512 3d ago

You're 100% correct in terms of him needing mismatches to be productive. Quite often in the regular season he was feasting on teams with small big men. It all came apart for him in the playoffs once he faced two teams that had bigs that he couldn't bully.

u/MasterSpoon Ausar Thompson 3d ago

I don’t understand why he won’t take a 4 year deal that’s going to guarantee generational wealth and be in his prime when it’s time to re-up.

His agent is about to bone him(and himself) by demanding a max contract right this very moment.

He’s already been offered a nine figure contract. Would be awful to see him negotiate himself down to an 8 figure or even 7 figure contract.

u/TheEnergizer1985 Cade Cunningham 3d ago

He can’t lose face now.

u/LSSwartz23 Jaden Ivey 3d ago

Awful? It would be hilarious

u/playboy4real 3d ago

He’s never going to have a player like Cade who is willingly spoon feed him. Look how Ayton played out after CP3 and suns featured him on offense. He turned out to be a journey man. Mind you Ayton is just 28. Funny enough they both have same wing span, same height, same playstyle. Same mindset of wanting more. It’s crazy Ayton was dissing Clint Capella, until he realized last year he wasn’t the guy! That’s how long it takes some of these guys to get it.

u/LTgolf17 3d ago

Cade made duren look better than he is

u/hyperkinesis247 3d ago

I tried to swipe 😂

u/drunkhoboboy117 Kevin Knox 3d ago

Even a qualifying offer is going to look sooooo bad. I really hope we don’t bring him back. Dude is a pansy. He doesn’t have the skills to be a good center.

u/Druhill3 3d ago

Nah never made it close to all NBA nor Allstar

u/Visual-Purchase5639 Rasheed Wallace 3d ago

Agreed

u/Direct_Swan2312 3d ago

Yall stay pocket watching

u/othertriangle 3d ago

Something an immature child says

u/Direct_Swan2312 3d ago

Oh yeah this conversation is definitely mature

u/othertriangle 3d ago

Look at the post and realize the point thats trying to be made. If you cant come to same conclusion as 95% of us, you are retarded

u/Direct_Swan2312 3d ago

You counting this man’s money and trying to make jokes on a business decision that he made and mad it me because I’m not a lemming. Real mature convo.

u/othertriangle 3d ago

The conversation is Noel did the same thing, ended up costing himself millions and now he isnt even in the league. Its called financial maturity and literacy. Get some maybe?

u/Direct_Swan2312 3d ago

So now it’s a TedTalk about financial literacy 🤣 Taking about get some. Get over yourself.

u/othertriangle 3d ago

I explained the point of the conversation you couldn't figure out:)

u/Direct_Swan2312 3d ago

And that’s the problem you’re arrogant

u/othertriangle 3d ago

I know if someone offered me 4 years at 35 mil a year id take that.

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u/LSSwartz23 Jaden Ivey 3d ago

Duren's cement like feet won't age well in today's NBA. Dude already moves like the basketball court is a sand pit.

u/elarmthecity 3d ago

I dont feel bad for these people. Hired stupid agents

u/yellohmit 2d ago

Duren and camp are delusional and can go. He’s young and has time to develop… But at this point in his career he’s a lob merchant that played very soft rim protection in the playoffs when it mattered. He can’t shoot or produce for him self at a high level. 35-38 million is MORE than fair. We still need to pay Ausar and in my opinion a second scorer… BBall Paul can hold it down with a new center moving forward.

u/Visual-Purchase5639 Rasheed Wallace 3d ago

I don't think that highly of duren... I just don't think he's very skilled at basketball (for the NBA)

u/Whatsyourshotspecial 3d ago

This post is shameful. What a loser fan base to turn on a home grown all star over contract negotiations. He is asking for the going rate of a good player. I'm wondering if the front office is behind this campaign to demean Jalen Duren to turn the fans against him.

u/No-Nectarine-9985 1d ago

Warriors’ fan here. Let’s look at the market, this season their was few teams that was contending for his services. Detroit obviously, Chicago, Los Angeles Lakers, Sacramento, Brooklyn and now the Los Angeles Clippers. The Lakers told him they viewed him as a maximum player and had the 52 million of cap space to sign him to the max. Rather than signing him to 4/160 a year they paid Walker Kessler 4/130. Trading majority of their draft assets for a 7.5 million difference. The Bulls and Nets clear their cap space to only sign cheap backup centers in Mo Wagner and Zach Collins and prioritize other needs. The kings for some time was the only team to give him what he once for exchange of their best player in Domantis Sabonis. Here lies the problem,the pistons to decline there problem which they did. Now the clippers have emerged to sign him not out of necessity but out of desperation. The problem they now lies which signing with the clippers and kings next offseason he would have to take qualifying offer leaving millions off the table. The market has already give Duren his going rate. He not the strongest defender, nor is a shooter, playmaking hub, even can’t create his only shoot from paint or perimeter.Other than sayings he’s 22 and is young justify the Pistons to gave him 40 million dollars if their rivals wouldn’t or can’t this season.

u/bossman2410 Ausar Thompson 3d ago

He made all NBA this is ridiculous

u/AgitatedMistake6545 3d ago

I think as he matures and develops, good athletic body and will get meaner or more competitive .

u/gsnake007 Cade Cunningham 2d ago

Kuminga,Schroeder, trash ass Cam Thomas did this shit and look where they are now. Stupid move

u/PaintImpossible4915 2d ago

Jalen Duren better play like prime Amare Stoudamire with his pants on fire.

u/krysti1123 Jalen Duren 1d ago

Oh, same!

u/Fickle-Duck-3848 9h ago

It would be very surprising if he doesn't sign a deal for $37-38 million a year for at least three years by the end of the month. Nobody his caliber has ever taken a qualifying offer and he'd lose more than he's fighting for if he does it.

Guys who've done it before just sucked; the Pistons consider Duren a future piece of the franchise, they just want to also sign Thompson and build a potential champion. You can't do that with this second apron thing if you give more than one guy a max deal.

His agent is the one that's the moron here. Unless Duren randomly decided he hates playing in Detroit this is just a bluff that didn't pan out.

u/King_Artis Rasheed Wallace 3d ago

Reminds me of Nerlens and Schroeder.

Like dawg, i don't think its ever worked out for the player when they hold out. Even Kumbucket, now in Minnesota, kept turning down actually good deals tryna bet on himself and he's never going to make that money back at this rate because him and his agent have proven they're just hard to work with while not even being good enough to move how they have.

If I can see this shit as a fan what makes these players/agents think GMs sure as shit aren't thinking this. Just straight foolishness.

Betting on yourself doesn't work if you're showing you're an ass.

u/elgarraz 3d ago

We're really in a tight spot with both Duren and Ausar not quite bringing enough to the table and both looking for a big-money extension.

Personally, I'd rather we had taken the chance and paid Duren in the hopes that he'd get tougher. It's hard to pay a wing who can't shoot that kind of money. On the other hand, it's also tough to pay a big who can't shoot either and folds in n the playoffs...

u/Sinclairj75 2d ago

They aren't even close to the same players. You can see Duren is going to keep developing.

u/jay_catch 3d ago

No fuck that I'm not getting down voted. These situations have LITERALLY NOTHING IN COMMON. NOTHING.

u/nrico1989 Cade Cunningham 3d ago

At this point, it seems like he’s gonna take the QO, which I believe gives him a NTC.

u/Vloff Cade Cunningham 3d ago

Its just such a terrible decision for him to do that if we are truly offering him 35 million a year. He'd be giving up 25 million dollars this year for the hope that he made 40 million more over 4 years. He'd be risking a ton for 15 million dollars over 4 years.

If we're offering 30 or less than yeah, the QO makes sense.

u/WhiteCastleHo Ausar Thompson 3d ago

That's why I think they eventually meet in the middle at something like 2 years $70 Million. It works out to being better than he can do over those two years at the QO and the Pistons aren't giving him more money than they're comfortable with.

u/nakedalienmonkey Peton 3d ago

At this point I'm guessing he gets traded? Wonder what we can get for him...maybe a brandon ingram and FRP?

u/soilentgleem 3d ago

I think him being traded is probably the least likely scenario. I'd put him returning on a deal as the most likely, him signing the QO then losing him the next offseason as the next most likely, then him getting traded either this offseason or after taking the QO as the least likely.

u/nakedalienmonkey Peton 3d ago

Him signing the qualifying offer has to be the least likely scenario I would imagine. Either we sign him and he stays a piston or a sign and trade materializes