If Michigan had completed first Hail Mary attempt, would refs have reviewed it to see if there was more time on the clock?

[u/Kh3hhdds343]

I don’t think anything nefarious was going on. I think the refs became extremely stressed and scrupulous after telling themselves, “Holy shit. This is a monumental, once-in-a-lifetime upset. Let’s make sure there is absolutely no possible way — absolutely none — that Michigan deserves an extra millisecond.”

I want refs to take their jobs as deadly serious as this, but the dead-on precision still felt unusual in practice. It’s like a maid who suddenly decides to use tweezers to pick up individual specs of dust. When usually refs are happy to run off the field and call it a day.

I’ve watched my teams desperately try to reach field goal range and hopelessly throw an incomplete pass at the 30 as time expired. But how much time was left after the ball bounced off the receiver and hit the grass never crossed my mind — even though I search for any reason for hope for an extra play.

The refs treated Saturday’s first Hail Mary like more than a crucial play at the end of the game. It was like if cops received a tip that someone had Cubar cigars and decided to obliterated every crevice of an apartment looking them, cutting through furniture, taking an ax to the walls, etc.

[u/1peatfor7]

Wasn't there a playoff game where the PA announcer had to keep repeating the game is not over. Ole Miss I think?

Edit the Sugar Bowl.

link

[u/TehTugboat → u/1peatfor7]

Boy they really did not want ole miss to win that one

[u/Raiden11X → u/TehTugboat]

To be fair, I didn't want them to win it either

[u/LoopyLutzes → u/1peatfor7]

And ASU/BYU 2024 they had to clear fans off the field and put the goal posts back up in order to put 1 second back on after ASU threw it out of bounds trying to run the clock out. BYU got the ball back with time for one hail mary shot and they underthrew it.

They always review end of game plays.

[u/yesacabbagez]

None of this would have been an issue at all if they showed the official review like the ACC. This has been allowed to run wild because there was no replay given to anyone until like 2 hours later.

[u/Financial-Swim-5884]

Not a chance in hell.

[u/Professional_Way8059 → u/Financial-Swim-5884]

I mean, you're the maid with tweezers analogy is spot on. Usually they can't even be bothered to get the spot right on a 3rd down run, but now suddenly they turn into CSI: Miami for this one play. It's the inconsistency that make me crazy, not the review itself.

[u/DuckFreak10 → u/Professional_Way8059]

It actually drives me insane when the ball is clearly down in between two yard markers, then the ref runs up, grabs it, and sets it down perfectly on a hash mark.

[u/VikesRule → u/DuckFreak10]

They started to do that more often so they don’t have to bring out the chains to measure as often with regards to first downs.

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/VikesRule]

At that point just make it arena league rules where the ball is placed on the closest hash

[u/ViscountBurrito → u/DingerSinger2016]

Honestly, yeah, they should. It’s such fake precision to have a pile of 15 guys pushing and shoving, spot the ball based on your best estimate of where in that pile the ball was when the runner’s knee went down, and then come out with the chains like you know for sure whether the ball was “9 yards, 2 feet, and 11 inches” or “10 yards” from the last reset. I know we have to draw the line somewhere, but cmon.

[u/MemoryLaps → u/VikesRule]

Thanks for saying this. I've been telling my friends and family this for the last couple seasons and they act like I'm crazy. 

It seems obvious that they know where the first down marker is, they determine if it crossed or not from watching the play, and they adjust the spot ~6" to 1' to make it obvious enough to not need to measure. 

[u/GliscorsFang → u/Professional_Way8059]

End of games have always been officiated differently. See the kick six for a second being put back on the clock as opposed to adding time in the 1st quarter.

[u/miboyl → u/GliscorsFang]

Saban arguing with the officials for the second to be added back just for the Kick Six to happen is still one of the funniest sequences ever

[u/yerba3 → u/GliscorsFang]

Yeah, and the refs running to spot the ball before the snap in the last drive.. Why can't they do that all game? All quarters matter.

[u/sausagespeller → u/yerba3]

I feel the same way about the running clock outside of the the two-minute warning

[u/ieatplaydough2 → u/yerba3]

Holy shit... an "all quarters matter" tee shirt would be hysterical... awesome, but funny as hell

Edit: kind of feel gross upvoting a Vol

[u/Substantial_Good9669 → u/yerba3]

I mean it makes sense. Preciseness in time becomes more important the closer you get to the end of a half. 

If you take both coaches aside right before kickoff and tell them you're taking a minute off the game and it's gonna be 59 minutes now, does it change anything? No, not really. Itd be weird but nothing about how they will play at the start changes. 

If one team receives a kick down 7 with a minute 30 left and you run up and tell them you're gonna take a minute off, does it change anything? Of course, it changes everything. The whole last 5-10 minutes of the half were played in a specific manner trying to juggle the clock to see who would have the ball at the end. 

[u/CTeam19 → u/yerba3]

Or even before Halftime. We have seen refs hardware a second or 2 when a team is kneeling the ball.

[u/russellx3 → u/GliscorsFang]

Yeah 2 minute drills are different, we ignore holding but scrub the replay for fractions of a second on one play

[u/BeefInGR → u/GliscorsFang]

The difference is Saban reviewed specifically for more time. Or technically the spot of the runner when they went out.

[u/Crazylegs704 → u/GliscorsFang]

Saban specifically called a timeout to challenge that play though, wasn't an official review

[u/HateToBlastYa → u/Professional_Way8059]

This happens in every sport though, it’s the last play of the game and there’s a replay review… of course they got the fucking tweezers out… gimme a break.

Because they usually make the wrong call in different circumstances should never justify just wrong calls all the time.

[u/Kh3hhdds343 → u/HateToBlastYa]

You're right. They do treat the last minute different. But this felt different than that too.

After we've all watched 1000s of games, we know the mechanisms of football like we can walk through our homes blindfolded. In this case, it felt like I bumped against my dresser after getting out of bed because it was moved 5 inches from where it had been for the last 10 years.

[u/Dry-Contribution4788 → u/Professional_Way8059]

WMU got two chain measurements supporting a first down in this very game.

Pass on this made up bs.

[u/reserved_seating → u/Financial-Swim-5884]

No dog in the fight but, “not a chance in hell.”

[u/HateToBlastYa → u/Financial-Swim-5884]

So what?  “In this random hypothetical, they usually make the wrong call, so they should’ve made the wrong call instead of the right one” isn’t the fucking answer.

They should just make the right call all the time.

[u/JWWBurger → u/HateToBlastYa]

And with the refs resetting the game clock to nine seconds right before the penultimate play, which can be timed at being less than nine seconds, there is no question the right call was made.

[u/DickBottalico]

Well the ball would still be live until the receiver completes the process of the catch, so more time would run off in this situation

[u/TemporaryParty6947 → u/DickBottalico]

OP isn't asking whether, on that exact play, a Michigan receiver in the back of the end zone could have completed the process of the catch in eight seconds. But a Hail Mary can be completed in eight seconds. OP's question is, if a Michigan touchdown catch had been completed in eight seconds, but nine seconds ran off the clock, would the Big Ten officials have interrupted Michigan's celebration to announce that there was going to be a replay review, then scrutinized the clock closely, and given Western Michigan one more second to try a Stanford band-type play?

And my answer to that question is, No, the Big Ten refs would've just walked off the field while Michigan celebrated.

[u/Jonathan-Ventimiglia → u/TemporaryParty6947]

Don’t they review all scoring plays?

[u/Swambus → u/DickBottalico]

Jfc I said this exact thing right after the game happened and got downvoted into Bolivia

[u/Sorge74 → u/DickBottalico]

Came to say that, even if the refs made the wrong call.

[u/SparkMaster360]

If we’re being honest with ourselves no shot

[u/Wampus_Cat_ → u/SparkMaster360]

It would’ve taken more time to complete the catch, leading to the same result.

Edit: Downvote me all you want, not only is that the real answer to this hypothetical, it’s the truth.

If Michigan completes the catch, it goes to review because of the placement of that pile at the back of the end zone to see if the receiver was inbounds, and WMU can challenge as to whether they think there’s time for a Stanford play on a kickoff. But the process of pulling the ball in and making contact with the turf would take more time than an out of bounds player jumping in to touch the ball.

[u/LabOwn9800 → u/Wampus_Cat_]

That’s not what the hypothetical is asking.

[u/WolverineDDS → u/LabOwn9800]

The hypothetical is meaningless though tbf. "If this pretend scenario happened the refs probably would've screwed it up so lets get mad about it."

[u/LabOwn9800 → u/WolverineDDS]

Yeah all hypotheticals are meaningless, you accept that and move on.

[u/EmergencyRaisin4919 → u/WolverineDDS]

All hypotheticals are meaningless, scrolling a college football subreddit is meaningless. But the question was posed. Anyway I respect you standing on business for your dogshit team

[u/Wampus_Cat_ → u/LabOwn9800]

Sure it is. The assumption is that the catch would’ve been reviewed, especially since it was toward the back of the end zone.

Completing catches take more time than say a WMU stepping from out of bounds to touch the ball, thereby running off the time otherwise left on the clock by the miscue. If the catch was made, there wouldn’t have been any time left on the clock. If that WMU hadn’t reached in and touched the ball, Michigan bobbles the pass, time expires and they win. The end.

If Michigan scores there, then WMU can theoretically challenge to see if there’s time during that catch review, possibly gets it and there’s time for a kickoff miracle.

[u/RipRaycom]

With the nature of the play, had it been completed the time would’ve been long gone. Only reason it was even close was the WMU player jumping from out of bounds 

[u/StrangelyOnPoint → u/RipRaycom]

If the WMU guy just let it hit the ground the game is probably over there was like a half second left

[u/BeefInGR → u/StrangelyOnPoint]

If you look at the dog pile, it would have touched someone else's hands.

[u/bb0110 → u/RipRaycom]

Yeah, even If the WMU player had not stepped out of bounds but was always in bounds then it would be game over too.

[u/TheOptimist6]

Makes me wish WMU went for it instead of taking the field goal. I texted my friends about them going for the win to take it on their own terms…two yards to win the game or have UM start inside their own 15 with no timeouts down two.

I think they could’ve gotten those yards

[u/Wild-Examination-155 → u/TheOptimist6]

Idk they were a broken hail mary play away from winning. If I'm wmu, I think you take those odds every single time

[u/BeefInGR → u/TheOptimist6]

Risk mitigation.

The probability of a hold on any given play is something around 45%. As in, a legitimate Hold, not "there's holding on every play". So now you have 4th and 12 and you're absolutely kicking the field goal. Now if you miss the field goal, Michigan has the ball down 2 and ten yards closer.

Considering there were some egregious, game changing calls that didn't get called for both teams, I trust Thicker Kicker and my defense over refball.

[u/timothythefirst → u/BeefInGR]

That would imply that each team averages about 30 holding penalties per game, it’s nowhere near 45% on any given play lol

[u/BeefInGR → u/timothythefirst]

30 sounds right.

Remember what is classified as holding. Things like outside the shoulders, anything that results in a jersey tug once the defender has positioning, inadvertent falling down together, etc. A lot of times it's just slow reaction times by the OL (oh shit I'm holding).

[u/timothythefirst → u/BeefInGR]

But you said “as in a legitimate hold, not that there’s holding on every play”, holding does not get called 30 times a game lmao. If you run the ball on 4th and 2 there’s not a 45% chance it turns into 4th and 12, that would be insane.

[u/DaMantis → u/BeefInGR]

45%???

[u/Hckr_]

I believe assuming a Michigan WR never steps out of bounds prior to making the catch, it would mean the clock still runs until he lands with the ball? Thus meaning it’d likely run to 0?

Can someone confirm

but otherwise definitely not lmao they’re not reviewing that

[u/Antonio1025 → u/Hckr_]

In your hypothetical, I think the only reason they would review it would be to confirm it was a legal catch, that the receiver didn't step out before making the catch. If he did step out of bounds and then touch the ball then they would call the play dead there and it would be third down with however much time left. Just my thought, though

[u/love_that_fishing → u/Hckr_]

Clock doesn’t stop on oob throw until it hits the ground or something before had. So in this case if the WM players never touches it and the ball goes all the way to the ground it would have easily burnt another .5 to 1 second.

Still I saw Mike Perirea (not sure on last name) but the FOX former official and he said they always use the stadium clock and then adjust it if it’s known to be wrong like the clock operator lets it run too long, etc… and in this case as it was just synched they should have used the stadium clock unless the clock didn’t start on snap which it did. Basically the feed we all saw is not the feed replay used and they should have looked at both which they didn’t. It was on a Joel Klatt feed today for source.

[u/JB92103]

The real question is, do they flag WMU for roughing the passer if the second Hail Mary attempt fails?

[u/lydiamoney → u/JB92103]

They didn't so no

[u/PandaPuncherr → u/JB92103]

Yes. Michigan would get 2 or 3 cracks at it.

[u/Conorj398 → u/PandaPuncherr]

So your claim is that the refs, who did not throw a flag for roughing the passer during that play, would have kept the flag in their pocket, waited to see if the pass was complete, and then would throw it once it was clear the pass was incomplete for a roughing the passer penalty?

[u/Kramerica_CEO → u/Conorj398]

Yeah this guys an idiot so yes that’s what he believes

[u/BeefInGR → u/Conorj398]

Assuming you never watched a Lions game from 1991-2022?

[u/Captain_Nipples → u/BeefInGR]

Why would anyone want to do something like that?

I tried to watch them during the Barry Sanders years. And it was awful.

[u/BeefInGR → u/Captain_Nipples]

I was born into it.

Last couple years have been making up to me.

[u/Jonathan-Ventimiglia → u/Captain_Nipples]

They had some great teams during the Barry Sanders years, so I don’t understand this comment?

[u/Captain_Nipples → u/Jonathan-Ventimiglia]

Every time I attempted to watch them, they'd get blown out

[u/WolverineDDS → u/Conorj398]

Now that information has come out ruining their story they have to come up with new pretend stories to get mad about. Sports culture is getting exhausting man it was the same during the world cup. People just want to be angry so badly these days.

[u/PandaPuncherr → u/Conorj398]

Yes

[u/Conorj398 → u/PandaPuncherr]

Points for just owning the insanity of it

[u/katkoa4 → u/Conorj398]

Quiet time for you cheater. No one likes you guys right now

[u/Conorj398 → u/katkoa4]

No one has ever liked us. If I'm going to be downvoted anyways might as well call out people for being dumb.

[u/Counciltuckian → u/JB92103]

The real question is why didn’t WMU rush more players?  It would have taken Michigan off guard.  

[u/Plisky6]

If you’re asking a serious question, no. There would be no need to. Everyone here conveniently forgets it’s a dead ball the minute that defender touches the ball. If he doesn’t touch it. WMU wins.

[u/citrus1330 → u/Plisky6]

Did you even read the post??

[u/allwatchnocattle → u/Plisky6]

lol it was still 0:00 when he touched it.

[u/JWWBurger → u/allwatchnocattle]

On the incorrect clock. You can measure it yourself. The refs reset the clock to nine seconds immediately before the penultimate play, which is timed from snap to the out-of-bounds defender touching it at around 8.4 seconds, meaning there is a at least a half second left on the clock.

The refs got it right.

[u/RXDude89 → u/Plisky6]

Clock was way past 0 when he touched it ROFL

[u/Conorj398]

This seems very hard for people to understand. The refs did their job normally. They checked to see if there was time left on the clock after a potential game ending play. This isn't new practice, I don't know why people are acting like it is. I've seen it an over and over again watching the sport, and so have all of you. They didn't even know what was going on at the time with the broadcast. They looked at replay, saw there was a second left based on the rules, and gave it.

The goalposts are now moving to "o the refs were stressed, and this wasn't normal, and they probably wouldn't have done it the other way" when there's absolutely no evidence for any of that. Seems like they were fine in the video provided and were just assessing the play. They did their job right, and for whatever reason, NBC's camera broadcasting the stadium clock was off. This is clear by the play only taking 8.4 seconds when timed, right after the clock was set back to 9. This has already gotten ridiculous, just make fun of the fact we're ass.

[u/12-34 → u/Conorj398]

People realllly wanna be mad. This is a great microcosm of how addicted to outrage society has become.

I'd argue it's largely a social media and internet creation but no matter the origin, people have wired their brains to crave outrage cortisol hits. Skip facts and evidence, I NEED TO BE PISSED RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

[u/Conorj398 → u/12-34]

Not wrong. I just hate the "I'm going to ignore all the evidence because it doesn't support my claim" attitude. It's honestly depressing how so many people are like that now.

I also find it odd because this is the one thing we can be right about as Michigan fans. Literally all other trash talk we'd just have to take on chin.

"You're ass!" - Yep
"It's embarrassing you rushed the field!" - Totally agree
"Your five star QB is a bust!" - Sure looks like it
"You're in for a long season." - Don't remind me
"7-5 is on the table!" - So is 6-6

[u/brientific → u/12-34]

The other thing too is that people are very selective about when they drop in and out of the information stream. A lot of fans saw what came out of that disaster immediately, which was visibly awful - clock on TV reading zeroes, Michigan gifted one more gasp at life, then all the reflexive reaction to it, but how many of them will stay engaged to revise their own assessment of it? A very small fraction, I’d guess. They disseminate their memes and move on with life, hating Michigan as they would have anyway (btw not complaining about this, I think it’s natural to hate on any big name program - fuck you, Alabama!). So the “damage” has been done, even though I strongly suspect the damage is wisps of bullshit and already-fully-baked disdain, and nothing more.

[u/flunky_precept → u/Conorj398]

If NBC weren't so dramatic in their coverage there isn't a controversy. 99/100 that second Hail Mary attempt ends the same as the first and no one remembers Michigan took two improbable attempts to win a game they should have won handily.

If this were a conspiracy to ensure Michigan won then the refs would have called a PI in the end zone on the first attempt and given Michigan the ball at the 2 for their second try. Then we'd be debating the fact that no one ever calls PI on Hail Mary attempts so the fix must have been in.

[u/Horror_Response_1991 → u/Conorj398]

“  This isn't new practice, I don't know why people are acting like it is.”

Checking a secret clock that no one knew about until this game is absolutely a new practice.  

[u/Conorj398 → u/Horror_Response_1991]

There is no secret clock lol. It amazing how many people on here are this ignorant.

[u/Chesh → u/Conorj398]

“Secret” is the wrong word but clearly there’s confusion at the highest levels and acting like everyone is aware of this is just bad faith discussion:

https://apnews.com/article/big-ten-replay-michigan-underwood-2b7df7a1b345589534f94012d86b02c0

[u/FakeBobPoot → u/Chesh]

“Secret” is the wrong word because the right way to describe it is “the literal scoreboard clock.”

[u/Chesh → u/FakeBobPoot]

Did you even read the article?

[u/rendeld → u/Horror_Response_1991]

You mean the clock in the stadium? On the scoreboard? There was no secret clock.

[u/FakeBobPoot → u/Horror_Response_1991]

Keep repeating the “secret clock” thing and maybe at some point it will be real. Worth a try at least, right?

[u/Conorj398 → u/[deleted]]

Again, how can so many people be this confidentially ignorant. There was one clock, the stadium clock, which NBC's camera facing that clock was .6 seconds de synced from. There is no second clock, there is no third clock, there was one clock.

[u/SydneyFall]

Yes. You can literally listen to the review booth comments.

How stylish is your tinfoil hat?

[u/SenorSabeBalon]

Idk man they were replay reviewing everything even when Western had a failed 3rd down conversion that would’ve been 4 and inches ( they would’ve gone for it anyway ) the refs went back and reviewed it and gave them the first down . Point is they reviewed everything in that game

[u/LoopyLutzes → u/SenorSabeBalon]

the irony here too is that if they hadnt been gifted this 1st down there may not have ever been time for a hail mary finish

[u/master_roshis_hat]

Depends what you mean by "nefarious". I don't really believe there's any such thing as "rogue" refs. They call games the way they are instructed to call them. More penalties, less penalties, call this, don't call that, try to keep the game close, etc.

Refs aren't the "big boss" of how things play out on the field. But they do have a lot of control over how things play out. They HAVE people above them who they answer to. From a FAN perspective, there are shitty refs. But I guarantee the worst refs are the ones who do EXACTLY what they're told.

In short, refs don't call a neutral game. They call whatever kind of gave they're told to. They control the flow and momentum of the game. They control if certain teams get more beneficial calls. They determine if certain teams get an extra second at the end of the game. But THEY (the refs) aren't the ones determining these things by themselves, they simply call the game how they're told to.

[u/StartingToLoveIMSA]

Pretty sure if the first attempt was successful, the game was over….

[u/Conorj398 → u/StartingToLoveIMSA]

Process of the catch would have taken over .6 seconds, so yeah you're right.

[u/tripleM_20]

I love that now there is sufficient evidence that the right call was made, the discussion is shifted to hypothetical reasons to be mad

[u/TheMilleniumCondor → u/tripleM_20]

Well you see, if Michigan hadn’t caught the second hail mary, there clearly would have been flags thrown to give them a third chance.

The refs bet UM on polymarket, the B1G coerced the refs (who were already set to profit from their bets), and Vegas (who probably had a large liability on Michigan ML) was also involved.

[u/nh1240 → u/TheMilleniumCondor]

I assume this reply isn't serious, but will piggyback to discuss why it's absurd to think vegas would've rigged this game (in case anyone does believe this)

vegas definitely had larger exposure on michigan ML through parlays. very common for people to throw in "safe" legs in their parlays to marginally boosy their payouts. when there are 70+ games in one day, the amount of handle on single games becomes comparatively small compared to what is being put on parlays. also this game will probably do like .02% of the volume of the entirety of CFB season, so the relative gain/loss on this is miniscule compared to how much money they will print the rest of the season

[u/Smitty1029 → u/nh1240]

People think Vegas would risk their entire reputation over something as silly as one single game in one single year. For something as easily verifiable as….time. It’s not like the refs made a bad judgement call at the end of the game that could go unchecked (btw they do this in almost every football game ever lol). Time is time

[u/Kramerica_CEO → u/tripleM_20]

They create conspiracy theories to support their other conspiracy theories

[u/RXDude89 → u/tripleM_20]

I have yet to see this evidence, or that this treatment is consistent. I have yet to be shown why or how there is a secret clock. The lack of transparency is what makes all of this sus. If the clock needed to be corrected prior to the play it should have been.

[u/Funicularly → u/RXDude89]

You have yet to be shown why or how there is a secret clock because there isn’t a secret clock. They used the stadium clock.

[u/Jaxisthecool1]

Absolutely not lol

[u/GliscorsFang]

Yes, all scoring plays are reviewed by rule.

[u/DrPineapple32 → u/GliscorsFang]

What is actually reviewed on scoring plays? I always just assumed it was the legitimatesy of the score. Has there ever been a precedent set before with so little time left?

[u/GliscorsFang → u/DrPineapple32]

Everything and anything that can be reviewed. They usually don't check the clock for like a 3rd quarter score (obviously), but at end of game situations they would review to make sure time did or did not expire.

[u/DrPineapple32 → u/GliscorsFang]

Thank you for a thorough reply. Are there any games (other than the NEB/TX game mentioned) where there are situations close to this?

[u/Gabians → u/DrPineapple32]

The kick six.

[u/azrolator → u/DrPineapple32]

This is actually the 25th anniversary of Clockgate which also involved u of m along with state. We are a State family and were watching as is required :) .

U of M has all but won the game. MSU down 24-20. MSU QB spikes the ball with 1 second left. Next play, MSU throws a td for the upset.

U of M fans were sure that the clock should have read 0 sec left. Lead to changes to timekeeping in the big 10. Later on, several media outlets would independently verify that there was time left after the spike.

It was a big deal at the time. They actually made greeting cards about it. My wife's uncle is a U of M fan and she got him a card that went something like, "let me take a second to wish you a happy birthday" that had the picture of the game clock with 1 second left on the front of the card. Glorious!

Now, do I believe it's possible that U of M had a portion of a second left? Yes, and I can relate. Am I still going to be insufferable and taunt u of m fans that they had to cheat a second just to beat Western? Absofuckinglutely.

[u/SydneyFall → u/DrPineapple32]

Nebraska vs Texas 2009

[u/No_Flow_7828]

Not sure anyone could know lol

[u/_moosleech → u/No_Flow_7828]

That won’t stop folks from making up a scenario so they can keep being mad about this

[u/FlopperinoCappuccino]

Yes absolutely they wouldve

[u/RXDude89]

So much brigading on this post

[u/LurkyMcLurkface123 → u/RXDude89]

The post itself is complete AI slop.

[u/Unusual_Access9101]

No

[u/Lord_CBH]

No. If the teams were reversed this call wouldn’t have been made either.

[u/IntelligentAge211]

We do not ref all plays to the millisecond. why do it only for one play?​

[u/zorilla → u/IntelligentAge211]

They didn't look at milliseconds. You can watch the replay review here: https://twarchive.b-cdn.net/insta-pst/ig-a2-09-06-26_33640.mp4 and you'll see that the clock showed 0:01

The reason milliseconds have come up in discussions since then is that in the real world, milliseconds exist, of course. So a clock that doesn't display them (like in college football) won't change until the entire second runs out.

So if 8.5 seconds have run off a 9-second clock, the clock is going to show 0:01, like it did here, because the ninth second hasn't ended and it doesn't count milliseconds. This is a better system than rounding, because with rounding anything under 0:00.5 would show as 0:00 - game over, which of course isn't correct.

Hopefully I'm explaining that well.

[u/DabbledInPacificm]

No

[u/LitterBoxServant]

Let's just enjoy the fact that Michigan will never live down the ass kicking or field storming regardless of the clock or final score

[u/Consistent_Buy625 → u/LitterBoxServant]

Michigan fan here. True. :(

[u/Conorj398 → u/LitterBoxServant]

Yeah we have no argument against this

[u/justWMthings03]

Probably.

They got the call right. The play started with 9 seconds and clearly ended before 9 seconds had elapsed. Get over it

Love the downvotes for the truth. Fits this sub to a T

[u/cornhuskerviceroy]

I said the same thing back in the 09 big 12 championship when Texas got an extra second. Are they going to review every play then? Probably would have been at least 45 seconds left on the clock for Nebraska/WMU to respond.

[u/heliosflama1234]

We saw something similar against Oregon a couple years back. Howard slid and called timeout with 1 second left. The refs ended the game anyways because Oregon got their home upset.

[u/Francis_X_Hummel]

Another question is if the exact scenario occurred, but flip the teams. Are they going to scour the clocks to see if WMU should get a second?

[u/JDraks → u/Francis_X_Hummel]

If it was CMU vs Oklahoma State they would

[u/GliscorsFang → u/Francis_X_Hummel]

Another directional Michigan got another Hail Mary shot even though the game was objectively over a few years ago.

[u/19ghost89 → u/GliscorsFang]

Yeah. Honestly, when this game happened I had forgotten about that, but that was when Cooper Rush, former backup for my Dallas Cowboys, was at Central. Another common thread here is that this week's game was a Big Ten officiating crew combing for every possibility that their Big Ten team could have a shot, and that was a MAC crew that misapplied the penalty rules in favor of their MAC team. Should interconference games have neutral officials?

[u/lurk4ever1970]

I believe the call was correct.

But as a fan of a perennial have-not in CFB, I also believe WMU wouldn't have been given the same chance if the situation was reversed. Dollar signs will always win.

[u/qeduhh]

This is a good question to ask.

[u/ksuwildkat]

ding ding ding ding

[u/Stevedbvik1]

Why would they review it? The play started with time on the clock. As long as the play is still alive it doesn’t matter what the clock says.

[u/Dynamic-Dingo99]

Michigan lost.

[u/kurttheflirt]

I think also if the refs hadn't been ignoring bad plays like the roughing the kicker and the blatant facemask against Western, then it would also be different. But when you are ignoring blatant and obvious things against one team and then doing this at the end as well is when it adds up. Like the refs always watch the kicker, so they just had to decide to not call that. And for the facemask it was the guy with the ball and the ref was a few feet away watching the play. All of that adding up makes it that much worse with them suddenly caring about the most minute detail

[u/bigkahuna777]

If the WM guy had tipped back into the field of play and Michigan had caught it for TD, would they have said incomplete because the WM touched it. I will speculate not.

[u/AdventureDude24]

Also play it out in reverse. So they add a second for WMU on the same play? Not a chance

[u/fskier1 → u/AdventureDude24]

They absolutely do. They review every game ending play if it is close, it’s pretty normal

[u/Kramerica_CEO → u/AdventureDude24]

Keep making up shit to be mad about.

[u/DeepspaceDigital]

No one would have said shit if the game ended when we all saw 00:00 on the clock. The refs were doing way too much to the point of hurting the sport

[u/Remote-Molasses6192 → u/DeepspaceDigital]

I hate when refs try to get the calls correct. How dare they?

[u/gregarious119 → u/DeepspaceDigital]

This is absolutely correct. If they just ended, there would've been zero questions raised.

[u/LittleChampion2024]

Lotta muddying of the waters on this subreddit to try to get around the simple fact that the correct call was made

[u/EveningPotential9443 → u/LittleChampion2024]

Just gotta let it go man. People aren't going to change their minds, they're too emotional.

[u/DeeDee719 → u/EveningPotential9443]

It will pass as the season progresses and there are more controversial plays.

[u/Wincens → u/DeeDee719]

Also when Michigan’s record quickly becomes not super relevant. More likely to come up if we end up talking about WMU’s G6 spot in the playoffs.

[u/Calm_Ad5703 → u/DeeDee719]

I'm sure Kiffin will happily make lsu the most hated team again soon

[u/LittleChampion2024 → u/DeeDee719]

Thank you for admitting the correct call was made

[u/DeeDee719 → u/LittleChampion2024]

Where did I say that? All I said was that all of this uproar will die down as the season goes on and there is more to talk about.

I didn’t comment one way or the other about whether I think the call was correct or not.

[u/GliscorsFang → u/EveningPotential9443]

I'm getting downvoted for pointing out that all scoring plays are reviewed by rule lol.

No ball knowledge on this sub.

[u/LittleChampion2024 → u/EveningPotential9443]

Oh I mean, why let it go on Reddit ;)? It’s all about sparring with those who wanted to get outraged and decided tp remain totally wrong. It’s all just banter in the end

[u/notkevin_durant → u/LittleChampion2024]

Lotta Michigan flairs not reading the room

[u/LittleChampion2024 → u/notkevin_durant]

So you concede it’s about the emotions of the ‘room’ rather than what’s factually correct? Cheers!

[u/SydneyFall → u/notkevin_durant]

They are reading the room fine, they just have more time than others to fix it.

[u/Scotinho_do_Para → u/LittleChampion2024]

Nah

[u/LittleChampion2024 → u/Scotinho_do_Para]

You’re wrong. Have a good one tho!

[u/goodguy847 → u/LittleChampion2024]

That copium is strong.

[u/LittleChampion2024 → u/goodguy847]

That’s a mirror

[u/SemiruralYeti → u/LittleChampion2024]

Hmmm I wonder why you think that

[u/Hckr_ → u/SemiruralYeti]

If it was any other team than Michigan it wouldn't be such a big deal. By the rules, everything was appropriately handled by refs and it has been proven that the NBC clock was not properly aligned

It truly sucks for WMU that they were unable to complete an epic upset and that the initial call was that the game was over, but we did win fairly in the context of the rules

[u/Ok_Problem426 → u/SemiruralYeti]

Because it was objectively correct…the only reason for controversy was the irresponsible broadcast.

[u/JDraks → u/Ok_Problem426]

Yeah if the NBC guy wasn't so adamant the broadcast clock was correctly synced to the field footage, this whole thing is just a "damn, WMU choked after being the better team all night" conversation

[u/nyr00nyg]

No, only because catching the ball and going to the ground would still be a live play. An out of bounds player touching it instantly kills the play

[u/CarlJustCarl]

Not a chance

[u/hawkeyc]

Goddamn yall are obsessed lmao

[u/devAcc123]

I mean it was confirmed the play took place<9 seconds, this fixation with Michigan a middling, fringe t25 team is hilarious

[u/BULL-MARKET]

Fuck no.

[u/BananaNutBlister]

If it had been WMU attempting a failed Hail Mary, the game would’ve been over and there would’ve been no need for a cover story about a mystery “official” clock.

[u/gregarious119 → u/BananaNutBlister]

Truth.

[u/DabbledInPacificm]

Of course they wouldn’t have put back any time. We’re talking about UM here.

[u/ManBearWarPig]

Nope

[u/luckroy]

I think a better question is if the refs don't add the extra second back, is there enough evidence for Michigan fans to feel robbed that they didn't get an extra chance?

[u/Conorj398 → u/luckroy]

Personally no. I would agree that a second should have been added, but I also would have said that there was no way in hell we would have completed a 50 yard bomb.

[u/TheOnePSUIsReal → u/Conorj398]

Also because the clock the broadcast/stadium showed 0:00, I don't think it would have been questioned if there was no review.  We only really had people analyzing frame by frame and seeing that the play was under 9 seconds because of the second put back on.

[u/luciaes → u/luckroy]

I don't think anyone would have realized that the TV clock was not synced properly, and no one in the stadium would have been able to see the play and the play clock with enough time to realize what happened either.

[u/PizzaPurchaser → u/luckroy]

lol no

The most surprising part about all of this was Bryce completing a forward pass

[u/SeaWhoa]

Call it what it is. A reasonable impetus for a replay review (potential game-ending incompletion) that should have ended the game but for a manufactured second. I don’t know who or what process decided to have another play run, but given what everyone in America saw, it was clearly zeroes well before the ball was contacted.

Maybe if the B1G had employed replay transparency the way the ACC has over the last few years, we could have seen their official clock as it happened. Instead, it just looks like a mad scramble to find ex post facto justification.

[u/fooliecoolies → u/SeaWhoa]

What manufactured second? The pre hail mary play literally took less than 9 seconds.

[u/RXDude89 → u/SeaWhoa]

completely agree

[u/Rude_Highlight3889]

Not at all. Especially since this was a B1G officiating crew

[u/WesternSorbet659]

Michigan cheated. Fuck anyone that is defending them.

[u/GoBlu323]

No because it wouldn’t have mattered

[u/Kramerica_CEO → u/GoBlu323]

Why not? They’d get a kickoff return chance

[u/GoBlu323 → u/Kramerica_CEO]

No, the clock would have expired since the player would have taken time to secure/come down with the catch. This only happened because a ball hitting an out of bounds player immediately kills the clock

[u/Sergestan → u/Kramerica_CEO]

I think they mean that if the ball had been caught, the play would have had to take a second or two more, leaving the clock definitely at 0.

[u/GoBlu323 → u/Sergestan]

Exactly. The only reason it happened the way it did was because the defender had stepped out and a ball touching an out of bounds player kills the clock immediately.

[u/wowthisislong]

Okay but if they did have that thought, thats also a huge problem, because that means they were not treating the teams fairly. Its a mindset of "we can't allow this team to beat this other team without crossing our ts and dotting our is", but not applying it the other way.

[u/Capital-Water2505]

This guy analogies

[u/JWWBurger]

My feels say the refs wouldn’t so that must be the truth!

At least do some research and bring something to the table to back up your hypothetical evidence-lacking conclusion.

[u/Mawx]

Yes they review every scenario like this there are just rarely issues. The only reason this is a controversy is because nbc dropped the ball.

[u/Kramerica_CEO]

Jesus Christ you guys are dramatic. Losing to the MAC champions that won 10 games last year wouldn’t be some monumental once in a lifetime upset. You guys are fucking insane.

Besides, we’ve already had our season opening once in a lifetime upset

[u/BeefInGR → u/Kramerica_CEO]

The bigger issue is Western is being projected to win 10 games and the MAC. This would have been one of the two assumed losses (Boise), thus putting them in immediate contention for the CFP after week 1.

That's the whole reason NBC chose this game.

[u/Clean_Kangaroo_5547]

Nope

[u/Cjforyou712]

No shot. I'd be willing to bet it's nothing but the big ten telling them to do whatever needs to be done to get 1 more play for Michigan. They couldn't let Michigan lose like that in week 1

[u/ksubz9758]

Great point that this could be reviewed on literally every Hail Mary attempt if the refs want to. I almost feel like every team should protest after a Hail Mary attempt about reviewing the clock, potential time left, in reference to this exact outcome. You can’t apply the rule for Michigan but not to the rest of the teams