Playing engage atm. Seriously who writes these dialogues?

[u/Rex__Lapis]

Just met this Yunaka girl and holy crap who writes this shit?

Also every mf gushing over the divine dragon from the second the game starts... I can not take this game serious.

What happened?

Edit: okay after a day with Yunaka she's my favorite character and literally my wife. Am i schizo?

[u/Odovakar]

They hugely present some quirk that is either hiding something deeper, or explained by something deeper. Alfred

I think Alfred is the perfect example of how this method of writing characters, at least in the way it's executed in Engage, does not work.

Alfred is the first royal sibling to join Alear and is in a lot of cutscenes. He should be a character of importance, with enough time to have something of an arc, but story-wise he contributes next to nothing.

His supports are extraordinarily repetitive and you have to dig deep to find out the developers' stated reason as to why he acts the way that he does. Personally, I don't buy the excuse, nor do I think it justifies how badly written his supports tend to be. If anything it just raises a lot more questions than answers.

When Engage had just released, a lot of people on this very subreddit were confused as to why Alfred died so suddenly in the epilogues. His deliberately vague disease is so unimportant to who he is that many players miss it.

[u/ragunyans → u/Odovakar]

I mean I'm not a fan of the repetitiveness either, it definitely could have been cut down on, but I don't particularly dislike that a condition he explicitly wants to cover up and keep secret is something he keeps close to the chest, only fully revealing to his sister, who would be the most familiar with his situation.

Other Engage characters can be pretty selective with personal information in similar ways, and I actually appreciate how true it feels to their characters, rather than just being given to the player for the sake of it. It's the reward for engaging with the game, supports, etc.

[u/Odovakar → u/ragunyans]

but I don't particularly dislike that a condition he explicitly wants to cover up and keep secret is something he keeps close to the chest, only fully revealing to his sister, who would be the most familiar with it.

I don't either, in theory, but to put it bluntly, it's not up to him. Not only is Alfred the crown prince of one out of four nations and a direct contributor to Alear's ragtag bunch of misfits, which should in theory come with a lot of responsibilities that would make it difficult or impractical to hide, it's also such a vague disease that it doesn't need to be addressed a single time throughout the entire main story. It doesn't hinder him in battle once.

If Alfred had collapsed at some point in the main story when only Alear had seen it, and Alfred asked them not to tell anyone what they had seen, I would've maybe not been as annoyed by how absurdly convenient it is.

I'm not even sure what the point is of giving Alfred a disease like this if nothing is done with it. One of the most popular social links in Persona features a young man dying of a disease which leads to a touching story of friendship, acceptance, what you leave behind, etc. Alfred, on the other hand, wants to spend the rest of his short life talking about muscles.

Alfred does not really do well in a comparison to Lysithea, who also wants to not be defined by her shortened lifespan. The difference between the two is agency and, of course, how relevant the "disease" is to the world itself. Alfred even has more main story focus than Lysithea.

[u/ragunyans → u/Odovakar]

I don't either, in theory, but to put it bluntly, it's not up to him. Not only is Alfred the crown prince of one out of four nations and a direct contributor to Alear's ragtag bunch of misfits, which should in theory come with a lot of responsibilities that would make it difficult or impractical to hide

I think the resurgence is a surprise even to him, actually. The narrative posed by other characters (Celine, Etie, even Alfred himself in his supports with Rafal) is that he was sickly as child, but his training and efforts to improve his health seems to have improved his condition. He actually seems surprised in the sense of "this was supposed to be over/gone" in his A support with Celine.

His illness doesn't particularly serve a purpose in the main story, but I think it serves purpose in what his character arc is supposed to be, something he kind of shares with Celine regarding the theme of happiness.

(And Celine herself is poised as preparing and hardening herself for the governance of Firene, so it could be that he has confidence his sister will be a worthy successor if - and it does - the worst comes to pass?)

Basically being able to appreciate the beauty of life, and the small things in it, because his condition makes him aware of how transient everything is. It's only strengthened by how he uplifts and encourages others (because contrary to popular belief, not all of his supports are about 'muscles' - I gesture to Diamant and Ivy's, off the top of my head, for some pretty insightful ones on his character and mentality), despite what he's been grappling with.

It's for sure more of an isolated character thing, rather than something connected to the lore...

A different approach, absolutely.

(Also Akinari is one my favorite P3 social links btw, so touching!)

[u/Odovakar → u/ragunyans]

He actually seems surprised in the sense of "this was supposed to be over/gone" in his A support with Celine.

My issues with it remain the same, I'm afraid. It is all too convenient to shove this away in a few supports for the first royal to join Alear.

Basically being able to appreciate the beauty of life, and the small things in it, because his condition makes him aware of how transient everything is. It's only strengthened by how he uplifts and encourages others

I'm a sucker for this stuff. I easily get emotional reading stories like these and I love anime like Frieren that deal with these kinds of topics.

Not once did I get the impression Alfred's character was ever meant to say anything about these things. I wanted him to. I think the game would have benefited if he did. However, his supports are too shallow, too repetitive, and the writing of Engage too amateurish to ever make me feel for him.

It's for sure more of an isolated character thing

And that is a mistake, I think, since Engage struggles to be about anything already.

[u/ragunyans → u/Odovakar]

Not once did I get the impression Alfred's character was ever meant to say anything about these things. I wanted him to. I think the game would have benefited it he did. However, his supports are too shallow, too repetitive, and the writing of Engage too amateurish to ever make me feel for him.

It's all a matter of subjectivity then, because I know several people (including those dealing with chronic illness) who got this exact message out of his story and resonate with him because of it. He's not particularly one of my favorites, but has got quite the dedicated core of fans from what I've seen!

Then there are people like you who didn't! That's fine. Opinions, and all.

And that is a mistake, I think, since Engage struggles to be about anything already.

And I personally think it does have things it's trying to say. I get where you're coming from, though. It might not particularly land for some, but it does for others. Know that I'm not arguing Engage is some literary masterpiece, though.

The story is my least favorite part of the game, I just don't have the visceral reaction to it others seem to. Especially when the devs themselves said the story was mostly a vehicle for players to enjoy the gameplay. You can really feel it in the story's "move from point A to point B, plot point to plot point" structure.

But having gone through every support, I also think the characters have more to offer than "one note" and most of them (outside of Yunaka, apparently) being written off that way isn't entirely true. That's just me, though.

[u/Odovakar → u/ragunyans]

He's not particularly one of my favorites, but has got quite the dedicated core of fans from what I've seen!

I am genuinely glad people got something positive from him, really. At the end of the day, that might be the best thing a story can do.

However, I believe Alfred could with relatively few changes have gone from someone a lot of people don't care about to a standout in the cast. By actually making use of his comparatively ample amount of screen time as the first royal to join Alear and making his disease and outlook on life be a staple to his character, I'm sure a lot of players would have been won over. If nothing else they wouldn't have scratched their heads when the epilogue said he died out of nowhere.

Especially when the devs themselves said the story was mostly a vehicle for players to enjoy the gameplay.

They also wanted us to laugh and cry alongside the characters. I don't see the point in making several hours worth of fully voiced cutscenes, complete with multiple dramatic death scenes, and say the story isn't actually important.

You can really feel it in the story's "move from point A to point B, plot point to plot point" structure.

Same as Fates, really. I just think Intelligent Systems are not good writers.

But having gone through every support, I also think the characters have more to offer than "one note" and most of them (outside of Yunaka, apparently) being written off that way isn't entirely true. That's just me, though.

I know I'm coming across as very negative here, but I can't recall the last time in any game outside of Fates where I wanted the characters to just. Stop. Talking.

I was just consistently thoroughly annoyed or bored when I watched the support conversations and I frankly find them embarrassing for the lack of a better term. Professional writers wrote those. It doesn't matter how two dimensional they are if I'd prefer it if they didn't open their mouths.

[u/Panory → u/Odovakar]

I believe Alfred could with relatively few changes have gone from someone a lot of people don't care about to a standout in the cast.

Yeah, and we could call the new and improved Alfred something different. I think "Lysithea" has a nice ring to it.

[u/ragunyans → u/Odovakar]

Same as Fates, really. I just think Intelligent Systems are not good writers.

Oh, I feel it lol.

I'm pretty indifferent to Awakening these days (and never fully played through Fates, but don't comment on it because I'm not informed enough to) but I definitely used to dislike nu-Emblem because it really did feel like the writing took a nosedive.

I'm not the biggest 3H fan either (hoping I take more to FW though) but recognize why people love it so much. The worldbuilding, the character writing? Great stuff.

I was just consistently thoroughly annoyed or bored when I watched the support conversations and I frankly find them embarrassing for the lack of a better term. Professional writers wrote those. It doesn't matter how two dimensional they are if I'd prefer it if they didn't open their mouths.

And that's valid! It wasn't the case for me, but I can understand you. I honestly appreciate how chill you've come across despite our disagreement - I'm an Engage fan, but I do have my issues with aspects of it. I appreciate not being labeled a blind defender or glazer for simply trying to be fair to it lol.

I get where they both come from, but the visceral hate with no backing but the usual buzzwords, and the kneejerk "it's peak, gameplay first, don't take it seriously" defenses really do make the topic insufferable.