People out here acting like MAGA has ever needed a rational reason to do anything.
Here, here's your script:
"He's a communist Islamic terrorist sent here by Jews to replace white people"
Go ahead, argue with that. Take it apart, dismantle it piece by piece, expose in vivid detail why every word of this sentence is a lie. The only response will be a shit-eating grin and "You're a triggered liberal".
Its infuriating watching history repeat itself. Do you have any idea how many well-educated Weimar liberals carefully dissected Nazi talking points and debated them to hell and back? And every time they were met with the same leering grins, because the people you are arguing with do not care about reality, they care about their narrative, and watching you twist yourself into knots wasting your time debating them on things they don't actually care about is entertainment for them.
You cannot use rationality to appeal to irrational people. Stop pretending you got 'em and there's no way they can wiggle out of it this time. They aren't constrained by the laws of reason.
Goddamn, yes. It’s like Charlie Brown with a football.
Barack Obama is a Christian born in the US, who’s proven this as fact multiple times, and to this day, he’s still accused of being a Muslim terrorist and evil Manchurian Candidate mastermind despite leaving office a decade ago and doing zero of the nefarious things he was alleged to want.
These people do not care about what is real, or honest, or accurate. They are white nationalists who use “political debate” as theater and distraction from their actual belief: that America should only contain straight white Christians, and anyone who is not that should be removed, imprisoned, disappeared.
“Argue against this.” Yes, they will. In bad faith, as they’ve always done, because several complicit billionaires control every form of media their base consumes, and those people are immersed in de facto state media 24/7. They will believe as fact what they’re told to believe.
I once watched Fox talk about how terrible Obama's Christian pastor was (Rev. Wright, I think), and blamed Obama for 'endorsing' his views by attending services there regularly. Barely 3 minutes later, they were berating him for being a Muslim.
They care nothing for logic and consistency, and can hold two opposing points or views simultaneously without care, and are shameless.
We are seeing the results of spoiled children turning into adults. It's time to remind them of everything they are. Whoever gets offended is the problem and should be treated as such.
Idk why liberals bother using words like “fascist” when they just get co-opted and diluted by the far right because the average MAGA voter has a pathetic vocabulary and just thinks those words mean “person I don’t like”. Someone tweeted at Hunter Biden and his dad accusing them of being “grifters” ffs. MAGA will always just say “no u” and it continues to land with their base every time.
Like you said, “weird” actually got under their skin. They tried their classic “no u” move by calling him Tampon Tim, but it never stuck, because no matter how you feel about his politics, Tim Walz is not weird.
Thank you for writing this so eloquently. The only thing more maddening than watching chuds cut off their noses to spite their collective face, just to trigger the libs, is watching the libs try so earnestly to convince them to put the knife down. One side is not using the laws of logic and common sense and the other thinks maybe they could be persuaded to if the appeal is phrased kindly enough.
Right. People keep rubbing their hands and laughing about how stupid the right is being and how hilarious it is that they think this will work and they ignore the fact that it is working.. There is no satisfaction in knowing it shouldn't be.
You'd think people who are on the side of logic and reason would be able to see the ample evidence in front of them of what the difference between them and MAGA is.
MAGA only cares about hatred and the freedom to treat others with it.
It's that simple. Any excuses they give are there as a way for them to protect that freedom.
They don't care about logic and reason. The dumb ones get stuck in the echo chamber and stick their fingers in their ears and the smart ones know the grift and intentionally misunderstand or completely railroad the conversation. If history repeats itself though, the "smart" grifters using it for their own gain will be the first ones targeted by their leaders because they can still think and the goal is for you to not think or be scared to think. You kinda see it already when you see Maga "fractures" when a powerful grifter expresses anything other than exactly what the main Maga wants. I studied totalitarianism in university and this is quite literally the path every totalitarian government went on. If anyone is interested I can recommend reading material or explain things better
For the most comprehensive reading I will always recommend Hannah Arendt "The origins of totalitarianism". It's got both her lived experience and her breaking down the meanings that are lost on people from outside the bubble. We who live in a completely different world don't really grasp a lot of the stuff. My favorite short reading was Dorothy Thompson " who goes Nazi?" https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/ and George Orwell's "The politics of the English language" https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/ (this one will make less sense as to why it's related to totalitarianism without a foundation of knowledge but still useful)
Republicans sincerely believe that only people who white can be Americans and that there’s some kind of appalling administrative hiccup that gives non-white people the same citizenship they have. No POC politician is legitimate, because they believe everyone who isn’t white isn’t American and shouldn’t have any human rights whatsoever. It’s really as simple as that.
Pretty sure the issue is that a lot of those logical people are trying to avoid the logical conclusion that this leads to. Because if MAGA is fundamentally irrational, and they’re just going to keep going, then the logical response is to stop them with force.
And while “punch a nazi” is a commonly-shared joke, the thought of actually resorting to large-scale violence in place of rational discourse is something a lot of liberals simply can’t stand. Even when they’ve already tried any other response.
You'd think people who are on the side of logic and reason
Ya, by definition these kinds of people have a hard time going with emotion and irrationality. It's actually not that hard to fathom that people driven by logic and reason struggle with playing games where emotion and irrationality seem to be rewarded.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
It’s why the “dark Brandon” memes worked so well. Suddenly they weren’t dealing with adults with better things to do, they were dealing with assholes who could dish it back out
Because at the end of the day, that’s what the majority of Americans respond to, unapologetic assholes
DON'T ARGUE WITH PEOPLE WHO SAY DUMB SHIT LIKE THIS
Arguing and debating legitimizes their bullshit. All you need to do, and I promise you this works, is tell them that whatever they said is really fucking stupid, laugh, and carry on
Yeah, I don't argue with Branch Trumpvidians because it's a waste of time. It's useless to debate them because there's no chance of getting them to change was passes for their minds.
"call him whatever bullshit you want, he's still fighting to get us all better healthcare, block data centers, and stop billionaires from stealing from us." Most maga freaks won't care but any third party listening will have the sides reframed as meaningless name calling vs actual plans to help them.
Yep. I used data centers to argue about the Supreme Court vote in Kansas. If you let Elon musk buy a Supreme Court Justice here in Kansas, how do you think they will rule on the data center they want to build in your pasture?
First mistake was trying to use logic. The “script” begins and ends with his name. Even if his name was “Tom Smith” it would be his skin tone. Then if he was white he would be a communist. It does not matter.
They just straight made up that Talarico is trans because he's white and christian. Its the most obvious lie they can tell and they do it anyway because they do not care.
This is exactly how my cousin is. I don't even know what he really believes, because his favorite thing to do has always been to stir shit up and piss people off.
I cut him off about 2 weeks into trump's 1st term because he was impossible to talk to anymore. I don't miss him even a little.
A key point though is that he can explain policy like a normal human. That short circuits the Republican mind set. The Big Lie only works if you quarantine a person from the truth hard enough.
That’s true but MAGA is the nasty cult of Trump and his current hardcore support is at about 37 million - about 10% of the US population. It’s shocking it’s so high but they aren’t taking over any more than they already have and he’ll be out by 2029 even if he’s not dead. We still will face the wealth and income inequality that (history repeats) leads to the rise of demagogues, conspiracy theories and false populists like Trump unless until we get leaders like El Sayed, Mamdani, AOC, et al to help get us back on track.
The solution is to outrun them. You waste time engaging with their lies because they can always just tell more. Say the things that are true and get shit done. The more time you spend climbing into the pig pen with a bunch of glassy eyed hogs that want to drag you into their filth the less time you spend getting shit done.
38% of voters and/or likely voters approve of Trump right now. That works out to about 66M Americans. Perhaps they aren't all wearing red hats and buying commemorative Trump coins, but I don't know how they can be considered anything but MAGAs. I suspect your estimate is inaccurate and optimistic.
All they have to do is hear or see his name and they’ve already made their decision to fear and hate him. Racism and xenophobia can’t be cured with rationality. There’s a reason Trump keeps tweeting “Barack HUSSEIN Obama”, and it’s not to advance policy objectives.
You don't win them by engaging with right wing lies. You tell them the truth, you lay out the facts, you tell them how it really is. El-Sayed didn't win by wonking over his opponent's talking points, he won by making his own known. THat's what people need to see- Genuine sincerity.
Real talk: Education. The right wing is anti-science and anti-education because those things cause people to think critically about their surroundings and the systems in their lives, and have spent decades trying to dismantle it. In the immediate, all you can really do is present people sincere reality and tell them what's actually going on and hope we aren't past the ceiling of recovery and we never have to end up like ol' Blazko here.
Yeah this post is such wishful, naive liberal bubble thinking. The script is "his skin is brown and he's a Muslim terrorist." That's all they need, and for a lot of rural Michigan it'll work.
Yeah I was going to say, there is definitely a script. It's just the same old script that, if you're lucky, they might even jumble around for you instead of directly quoting radio/cable "news" opinion pundits. Although the jumble could just be because they never really understood their own narrative, just the buzzwords and the associated ways they are supposed to feel about them.
As a Jew, it’s always been funny to me when right-wing-nut antisemitic conspiracy loons talk about us wanting to “replace white people”. Most American Jewish people are Ashkenazi, which means of European decent. I’ve always been considered white.
Funny how despite all their Jew hate, the right wing is perfectly okay with Israel, simply because Trump and the Republican Party are okay with Israel.
It's more complicated than that. They can hate Jewish people and fully support Israel because they need Israel to springboard the second coming of Christ, per the prophecies they made up.
It only sounds crazy because it is. But they believe it, and by 'they' I mean millions of fundy xtians who hold sway over a lot of GOP politicians.
Some of the biggest protests in German history were in Berlin during the Weimar years against the Nazis. Journalists wrote at great length. But the liberals and communists couldn't get along, and the capitalists and conservatives were more afraid of both than they were of the Nazis, who they thought they could control.. we're so fucked
Yes! You've put it very succinctly, and I'd recommend to everyone reading this to watch this video by thoughtslime on YouTube. It goes into more depth about how someone who exists in reality trying to "argue" with a fascist basically has already lost because for a fascist, getting someone to agree that their points are even worthy of debate is the win condition, and the people that will hear their ideas and agree with them aren't the kind that are swayed by arguments)
Pretty much. All it takes is the talking dumb Foxheads to reiterate those bullshit claims over and over and the MAGA factless and faithful eat it up and go "yeah he's a terrorist! His family was behind 9/11!"
Furthermore, the laws of reason and actually most laws in general don't apply to them or their hate crimes. Literally killing your own daughter for disagreeing with you inmsv one example of so many others
Fucking this so much. I have never once got a maga to admit any kind of incorrectness or to even meet in the middle. You’re either with their side 100% or not
After the takeover of power by the NSDAP the Weimar liberals largely aligned themselves with the nazi regime.
Hannah Arendt said in an interview in the 60:
„The Personal Problem was not what our enemies did in 33 but what our friends did.“ (she was talking about said self alignment)
More people need to understand this. Pointing out their hypocrisy won't change their minds because they don't believe in anything. They just want to feel like they're winning.
Agreed. As great as he may be or that he was born here and has a phd… you’ve been paying no fucking attention if you think their is rational thought by these racist maga cultists
Very accurate, and it ultimately means there's only one way you can engage with them to change their behaviour. I can't say it publicly, of course.
And I'm also not saying that they should be treated that way, but I can't see any other option, for people who can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with. Who don't feel pity (except for themselves), or remorse (except for themselves), or empathy.
The only difference I see is that Terminators don't feel fear.
No need to rationally appeal: you're getting poorer, can hardly afford groceries and gas, and meanwhile the guy you voted for just made a other couple billion ... You know they're laughing at how dumb you are right?
Won't work for enough people i think. They really dont have to debunk all of this as a lie, they just need to ignore it because that really doesnt stick with the majority of michiganders.
Ok, I get that but that bullshit is only effective during relatively good economic times. The people have many more pressing and substantial issues to be concerned with now than bs culture war issues.
Go ahead, argue with that. Take it apart, dismantle it piece by piece, expose in vivid detail why every word of this sentence is a lie. The only response will be a shit-eating grin and "You're a triggered liberal".
"no"
done, dismateled.
extraordinary accustions need extraordinary proof. they have to proof he is. let them show you their homework.
The problem is honest/legitimate people are taking conservatives serious and engaging them in a serious manner.
Don't. If they want to behave like 5 year olds, treat them like 5 year olds. You wouldn't get into a debate with a 5 year old about their belief in santa. You shouldn't let yourself get into a debate about how every muslim is apparently a terrorist. Engaging them is automatically ceding ground, you are on the defense because you are talking to them in a sane and rational way trying to "enlighten them".
Make them prove stuff, make them waste their time and energy, don't treat them serious. The only conclusion you need to arrive at is that these people also get to vote and that they need to be defeated.
Yeah it is? His entire comment is saying they need to be made to prove their arguments. The problem is they do not care. The officials do not care, and the voters do not care. They will hurl misinformation and then at the slightest bit of pushback they will hurl more misinformation. And when you don't engage with the gish galloping, the perception to uninformed bystanders is that you don't have any counterarguments. This is how they win actual independent voters.
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u/ironangel2k4 29d ago
People out here acting like MAGA has ever needed a rational reason to do anything.
Here, here's your script:
"He's a communist Islamic terrorist sent here by Jews to replace white people"
Go ahead, argue with that. Take it apart, dismantle it piece by piece, expose in vivid detail why every word of this sentence is a lie. The only response will be a shit-eating grin and "You're a triggered liberal".
Its infuriating watching history repeat itself. Do you have any idea how many well-educated Weimar liberals carefully dissected Nazi talking points and debated them to hell and back? And every time they were met with the same leering grins, because the people you are arguing with do not care about reality, they care about their narrative, and watching you twist yourself into knots wasting your time debating them on things they don't actually care about is entertainment for them.
You cannot use rationality to appeal to irrational people. Stop pretending you got 'em and there's no way they can wiggle out of it this time. They aren't constrained by the laws of reason.